LifeChurchTV

[Patrick]

Bible says to keep the temple of the holy spirit pure. Smoking as well as drinking too much defiles it.

[Patrick]

Oh, by the way, LC isn't the only church that has this problem. I think hypocrisy is rampant across all of our churches. I was just pointig out that LC isn't exempt from problems that every other church has. Hypocrisy is the biggest reason for the rift between society and the church.

[OkieBear]

Bible says to keep the temple of the holy spirit pure. Smoking as well as drinking too much defiles it.

I agree that smoking isn't healthy and the bible wants us to keep our bodies pure. But there are people who are struggling with trying to quit but who haven't been able to yet. I don't believe those people are going to hell just because they have a cigarette. So let's talk about the high level of obesity among Christians. There is no difference between that and smoking or excessive drinking, is there?

As for the hypocricy in the church as a whole, I agree that it can be a problem. I'm glad you acknowledge that it is a problem with most churches, not just LC. Sad, but true.

[Keith]

I agree that smoking isn't healthy and the bible wants us to keep our bodies pure. But there are people who are struggling with trying to quit but who haven't been able to yet. I don't believe those people are going to hell just because they have a cigarette. So let's talk about the high level of obesity among Christians. There is no difference between that and smoking or excessive drinking, is there?

As for the hypocricy in the church as a whole, I agree that it can be a problem. I'm glad you acknowledge that it is a problem with most churches, not just LC. Sad, but true.

Yes, hypocricy is a big problem in most churches. I even know some hypocritical people in my church. Unfortunately, many people use that as a crutch as to why they won't attend church. They say,"I'm not going to go to church because there are too many hypocrites there." What they have to realize is that, in the end, they have to answer for themselves, not for the hypocrites. That's why I don't let the hypocrites bother me. What they are doing is wrong, but I will not let it have any negative impact on my life.

As far as smoking goes, I don't believe it will send you to hell, however, it will make you smell like that you have been there already.

You are right about excessive smoking, eating, and drinking. All of them are habits that destroy the temple of God (your body)

[OkieBear]

Yes, hypocricy is a big problem in most churches. I even know some hypocritical people in my church. Unfortunately, many people use that as a crutch as to why they won't attend church. They say,"I'm not going to go to church because there are too many hypocrites there." What they have to realize is that, in the end, they have to answer for themselves, not for the hypocrites. That's why I don't let the hypocrites bother me. What they are doing is wrong, but I will not let it have any negative impact on my life.

As far as smoking goes, I don't believe it will send you to hell, however, it will make you smell like that you have been there already.

You are right about excessive smoking, eating, and drinking. All of them are habits that destroy the temple of God (your body)

Right on! I think it was my mother who said "it's better to go to church with hypocrites than to go to hell with them." And good quote on smoking! I like it!

[Patrick]

I agree that smoking isn't healthy and the bible wants us to keep our bodies pure. But there are people who are struggling with trying to quit but who haven't been able to yet. I don't believe those people are going to hell just because they have a cigarette. So let's talk about the high level of obesity among Christians. There is no difference between that and smoking or excessive drinking, is there?

Nope, no difference. I agree with where you're going.

As for the hypocricy in the church as a whole, I agree that it can be a problem. I'm glad you acknowledge that it is a problem with most churches, not just LC. Sad, but true.

Yup, I'd venture to say that is one of the biggest problems in the modern church. It turns a lot of people off, understandably.

[Patrick]

Yes, hypocricy is a big problem in most churches. I even know some hypocritical people in my church. Unfortunately, many people use that as a crutch as to why they won't attend church. They say,"I'm not going to go to church because there are too many hypocrites there." What they have to realize is that, in the end, they have to answer for themselves, not for the hypocrites. That's why I don't let the hypocrites bother me. What they are doing is wrong, but I will not let it have any negative impact on my life.

As far as smoking goes, I don't believe it will send you to hell, however, it will make you smell like that you have been there already.

You are right about excessive smoking, eating, and drinking. All of them are habits that destroy the temple of God (your body)

I believe those that practice the hypocrisy will be held accountable as well. They're contributing to people not coming to Christ. Sure, in the end, it's the individual's choice whether to accept Christ or not, but attitudes of Christians can influence that. We're to be salt and light of the earth. It's hard to do that when we're judging people on one side, and living a double life on the other side.

[metro]

Did anyone catch the announcement of the newest location. It was close to my original predictions. It will be in NW OKC, probably along the west portion of NW Expressway. The exact location should be announced in the next week or two.

[Midtowner]

Very well located to pick up more well-funded yuppie kids.

Has LifeChurch considered ministering to the kids who really need help? Maybe the Northeast side?

[OkieBear]

Very well located to pick up more well-funded yuppie kids.

You just can't help yourself, can you? It's really quite sad.

[Midtowner]

Does the truth hurt?

Which LifeChurch branch isn't located next to a concentration of wealthy white people?

[OkieBear]

Does the truth hurt?

Which LifeChurch branch isn't located next to a concentration of wealthy white people?

How about Tulsa, Stillwater and South Side? Do you know something about the demographics of those areas that I don't? Please enlighten us.

[Midtowner]

Don't know much about Tulsa, but Stillwater has its concentration of rich white kids (OSU students) who can donate plenty of mom and dad's money. My guess is that they make up the vast majority of the congregation. The Southwest part of Oklahoma City is affluent and is one of the fastest growing parts of town.

[osupa05]

Geez Mid... pickin' on us pokes.. even those of us "white kids" who didn't live off of our parents' money, yet you lump us all together as if there weren't "wealthy" kids at any other universtiy... or as if there weren't people who didn't have the world on a silver platter studying at OSU! Don't you have anything better to do? The south side campus which is located within a mile of an inner city health clinic where the average income of the patient poplulation that it serves is less than minimum wage... which is a far cry from law school! And, I suppose that there are no wealthy catholics.... I used to think you were a pretty decent debater, if not at times misguided in your stance, but the cheap shots as of late meant to degrade that which you don't understand lead me to re-think said ability. You choose to believe rumors about the wealth of a church, but fail to realize that God can do anything He so chooses, and if that means spreading the gospel of Christ through a certain church then He will.... Why is it so easy for you to mock lc? Is it because you don't understand? Are you scared of what God's doing? Is it because it doesn't fit into the box that you've created for and tried to stuff God into?

[Midtowner]

OSU, I'll admit that my comments are partially to elicit an emotional response (they worked brilliantly). But seriously, LifeChurch does have buckets of money. Just today, I was discussing with an individual who knows of their document reproduction budget -- these guys have quite a bit invested in that -- far more than just the black and white copier you'd find at the 5000 family Catholic Churches I attended.. But that gets back to the glitz and glamour in exchange for substance debate...

If that's the part of South OKC I'm thinking about, I'm familiar with that Clinic. That's where I go to get my teeth cleaned.

I don't see LC as a thing of God's doing. I see it as more-less of an entertaining diversion for middle class white folks. As far as OSU kids, the same is true of any population of university students. Do you think that there are that many there that are paying their own way??? (I didn't make a blanket statement, just that there was a demographic that LC could tap into, thus the location of a branch in Stillwater rather than say.. Ardmore or Miami).

[Randy]

I used to think you were a pretty decent debater, if not at times misguided in your stance, but the cheap shots as of late meant to degrade that which you don't understand lead me to re-think said ability. You choose to believe rumors about the wealth of a church, but fail to realize that God can do anything He so chooses, and if that means spreading the gospel of Christ through a certain church then He will.... Why is it so easy for you to mock lc? Is it because you don't understand? Are you scared of what God's doing? Is it because it doesn't fit into the box that you've created for and tried to stuff God into?

You hit it right on the nose. If he doesn't agree with what you say, then he takes cheap shots. From what I've seen, he has always been like that. In my opinion, that's not debating. It's dodging the issue, because he doesn't understand. His mind is closed. LC is doing God's Will and is reaching people that a catholic church could never reach. Mock all you want, MidTowner, and keep making a fool of yourself.

[Oki_Man5]

I somewhat felt the same about Midtowner's philosophy, but now that Randy has taken that stance, I shall have to regroup and rethink my thoughts.

Actually, I get a good laugh each morning and night as I read the inputs from those "in the know."

[Midtowner]

You hit it right on the nose. If he doesn't agree with what you say, then he takes cheap shots. From what I've seen, he has always been like that. In my opinion, that's not debating. It's dodging the issue, because he doesn't understand. His mind is closed. LC is doing God's Will and is reaching people that a catholic church could never reach. Mock all you want, MidTowner, and keep making a fool of yourself.

Of course you'll want to liberally construe the meaning of 'doing God's work.' I find that LC's mission is more secular and entertainment-based than worship-based.

I'm not taking pot shots, but I do disagree with you. If that makes you feel threatened, too bad.

[metro]

so back to topic, does anyone besides Midtowner have any comments on the newest location?

[OkieBear]

so back to topic, does anyone besides Midtowner have any comments on the newest location?

I think it's great! It will allow people from the west side of OKC as well as El Reno, etc., better opportunity to attend without having to travel all the way to S.Side or N. Side. Most of the experiences at N. Side are packed out, so it will thin those out to allow for even more growth. I think it's a great choice!

[Midtowner]

"experiences"?

[Randy]

Of course you'll want to liberally construe the meaning of 'doing God's work.' I find that LC's mission is more secular and entertainment-based than worship-based.

I'm not taking pot shots, but I do disagree with you. If that makes you feel threatened, too bad.

. I don't feel threatened by you in the least bit. As a matter of fact, I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself on a daily basis. And yes, you do take cheap shots at everyone that disagrees with you.

BTW, Oki_Man, I can tell you that MidTowner is not in the know, he just wants you to think so. You are funny too. I take a stance and you want to take a stanch just opposite of me. That's cool. I've seen some of your posts, so you don't impress me at all.

Experiences=worship services. I should have known MidTowner would not know this one.

[Oki_Man5]

Not impressing Randy; I will take that as a compliment.

[Midtowner]

. I don't feel threatened by you in the least bit. As a matter of fact, I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself on a daily basis. And yes, you do take cheap shots at everyone that disagrees with you.

BTW, Oki_Man, I can tell you that MidTowner is not in the know, he just wants you to think so. You are funny too. I take a stance and you want to take a stanch just opposite of me. That's cool. I've seen some of your posts, so you don't impress me at all.

Experiences=worship services. I should have known MidTowner would not know this one.

Randy,

I will as usual forgive you for your personal attacks that are in violation of the rules of the TOS. You can discuss my ideas and objections to that sham you call a church, or you can just insult me personally, and in so doing violate rules which you agreed to.

I understand exactly what "experience" means. It just seems incredibly hokey to call it that.

When trying to show how much moreso than I that you are a 'man of God,' I would advise that next time you leave the attacks on my character out of your arsenal.

[Randy]

Randy,

I will as usual forgive you for your personal attacks that are in violation of the rules of the TOS. You can discuss my ideas and objections to that sham you call a church, or you can just insult me personally, and in so doing violate rules which you agreed to.

I understand exactly what "experience" means. It just seems incredibly hokey to call it that.

When trying to show how much moreso than I that you are a 'man of God,' I would advise that next time you leave the attacks on my character out of your arsenal.

I believe you need to look in the mirror at the one who is really breaking the TOS. I never said that I was more of a man of God than you are, I didn't have to, you proved it by your posts.

Calling LC a sham is uncalled for and very offensive (I believe that is a violation of the TOS) Hmmmmm. If I called your catholic church a sham, then you would be offended (I think).

Now, sir (I use this word very loosely), can we please get back to topic?