Bricktown getting old

[Patrick]

After a long day of training and clinic today (Saturday) I decided to take a detour through Bricktown on the way home to relax after a long day at work. I do this quite frequently since OUHSC is so close to Bricktown. I must admit, each time I go I'm just getting more and more disappointed of Bricktown. Today, I stopped for an ice cream at Marble Slab. It was good, I'll admit. But, as I walked around I saw pretty much the same thing I've always seen along the canal. Tons of For Lease Signs, lots of empty spaces, etc. As I walked through Lower Bricktown, I was actually amazed to see as much brick on the buildings as I did, but again I looked around at the seas of parking surrounding the canal, and in my mine only wondered what it would look like with more density along the canal. What about a 20 story tower between Sonic and Residence Inn? How about nice 3 story retail buildings on either side of the water fall? How about a nice 4 story mix use building between the Sonic HQ's and the Sonic restaurant?
On walking around the theater, I didn't really feel like it was much different from walking by Tinsletown in East OKC.

I must admit, I'm really disappointed in what Bricktown has become. I really expected so much more.

[Karried]

Good points Patrick. Maybe some of your feelings had to do with today was a dreary day and many people weren't out and about - they probably stayed home .. I think it always looks better filled with people milling about before a concert or a Hornet's game.. it's always exciting and fun with crowds ..

[John]

On walking around the theater, I didn't really feel like it was much different from walking by Tinsletown in East OKC.

...except since you weren't near Tinseltown, you didn't have to don your kevlar vest.

[downtownguy]

Patrick, it seems like you're critical a lot these days. If you want Bricktown to be better, what are you going to do about it? Are you involved in the young professionals? Or the arts? Or OKC Beautiful?

[In_Tulsa]

Well Patrick don't fear in a couple of years you can just come to Tulsa and see what the new Downtown Tulsa will be like I think you will like it alot.

[Patrick]

Patrick, it seems like you're critical a lot these days. If you want Bricktown to be better, what are you going to do about it? Are you involved in the young professionals? Or the arts? Or OKC Beautiful?

I've already done all I can do. I've complained to Randy. I've given Randy suggestions. I was extremely vocal over the Moshe Tal/Randy Hogan feud. Simply put, we lost.

I've put my share of time and effort in when I had the time back in my undergrad days. Felt like I was hitting my head against a wall. Everyone I know at city hall, with Mick being an exception, has deaf ears. I've talked to Jim Brewer and he's promised so much over the years, I've stopped believing anything that guy has to say.

Those of us backing Moshe Tal told the city what they'd get from Randy. And we were absolutely 100% correct.

I'm just sick of fighting the good ole boy network in this city. I don't think the fight is winnable. How much money did Moshe shell out and he still lost?

[Patrick]

Well Patrick don't fear in a couple of years you can just come to Tulsa and see what the new Downtown Tulsa will be like I think you will like it alot.

Tulsa is making even dumber decisions than OKC.....like building a smaller arena, and tearing down historic structures. Tulsa is just about 15-20 years behind OKC. That's the only difference.

[Patrick]

Are you involved in the young professionals? Or the arts? Or OKC Beautiful?

Concerning Young Professionals, it's been found out that that organization is nothing more than a country club.

The arts....beautiful? I do my fair share of volunteering in the community through my church, working in our inner city schools that so desparately need it.

Hopefully in the future when I become a doctor I can do even more monetarily.

[Jack]

I agree with you Patrick. Hogan has turned Bricktown into just another ordinary development. There's nothing really special about it. Harkins is no different than any other movie theater. In fact, I think AMC is actually nicer. It isn't like Earls is the best BBQ in town. It's just another chain. Other than that, there's not much interesting going on down there. They need one of a kind restaurants.

[shane453]

Would a 5-story canal-front building with 30 residential units and retail space spice things up for a while, maybe?

Wait we're already getting that.

[Jack]

Actually for me it wouldn't. I've seen that building. It's going to be all stucco, little brick. And I don't see why everyone is getting so excited over 30 units. Big freakin deal. Now 130 units would be something to get excited about.

[shane453]

I'm hoping that the reason it's taking so long for them to break ground on that project and the reason it has not been talked about for a few months is that they're thinking about making it taller...

[Patrick]

That one really has me laughing. I've talked to Randy...we'll be lucky if we get the 5 story building.

[TheImmortal]

The main issue with Bricktown is basically it is the metro condensed into a smaller area. I can eat at most of the restuaraunts down there by driving 5 minutes from my house(I live in west Edmond btw). I can go to Quail Spings AMC within 5 minutes, and there is just not that much to do in general. This is even more true if you are under 21. Bricktown needs to be developed as an all-encompassing unique urban entertainment area, and that is just not happening. But I still have hopes for Bricktown, I think as all this major league publicity spreads around developers will have more faith in OKC.

[floater]

Patrick, it seems like you're critical a lot these days. If you want Bricktown to be better, what are you going to do about it? Are you involved in the young professionals? Or the arts? Or OKC Beautiful?

In defense of Patrick, I think he's done more for OKC with the advancement and promotion of this forum than most of us on it. I swear I'll see an idea, thought, or discussion here (and the Hornets Central.com) and it turns up in newspapers. I am grateful for the existence of the AEP, but their age restriction does make it seem like an exclusive networking club (which is valuable) than an agenda-moving organization (which Tulsans do have).

I like the landscaping of the canal. It's a pleasure to walk through. But don't you want to be able to shop right on it? Or step right into a restaurant and join the other alfresco diners? Or step right into your hotel's doors (we'll see)?

The pad site approach doesn't cut it for an urban canal. What makes Bricktown so great is the continuous street wall that's so much more engaging for pedestrians. The canal along the California is one of the most photographed shots in the city, because you have that density.

[Doug Loudenback]

Patrick, I understand what you are saying, but you're not old enough to understand what some of us who have been around a LONG time are seeing as a marvelous thing, generally, and I'm talking about "regular" and "lower" bricktown. I mean, how old were you when the Biltmore was imploded in 1977, signaling the end of "old" downtown as it once existed? The void in downtown that occured during the 70's, 80's, and 90's was powerfully numbing.

Personally, I remain thrilled at the developments that have occurred, are in the mix, and are yet to come. I don't have a model as to what would be "just right", and I don't want to have one. I'm just enjoying every minute of it.

Idealism is great, and it keeps thoughts and consciences active ... but ... as for me, every time I go to Bricktown, upper or lower, I enjoy it more. Balance is good.

[TheImmortal]

I can agree to the fact that what we have now is better than what Bricktown used to be. But all the same, there should be more reasons to go to Bricktown besides concerts, sporting events, conventions, and the clubs. There should be more attractions that would lead to Metro residents having a consistant reason to come to Bricktown, something they can not find in suburbia and something not based around special events.

[Doug Loudenback]

I can agree to the fact that what we have now is better than what Bricktown used to be. But all the same, there should be more reasons to go to Bricktown besides concerts, sporting events, conventions, and the clubs. There should be more attractions that would lead to Metro residents having a consistant reason to come to Bricktown, something they can not find in suburbia and something not based around special events.

While my comment focused on Bricktown (formerly a nothing), in my senses as I wrote it was the WHOLE of downtown Oklahoma City in the dismal period. But, sure, everything can be made better and we should all try. None of us will be totally pleased with all facets of the total product, but that doesn't mean that we ought not appreciate to its fullest what marvelous things that have occured, and, I expect, will continue to occur in the months and years ahead... it's all going so fast ... and, personally, I'm a happy OKC camper, and I'm excited.

I ain't gonna let Patrick, or anyone else, take that excitement, pride, and expectation of things to come, away from me!

[Midtowner]

Patrick,

I wholeheartedly agree.

The only thing that'll save Bricktown is Hogan's early retirement or at least someone competent stepping into the picture. It's hard to believe that Humphries was willing to sign over the city's most valuable commodity to someone with no experience and an unrealistic master plan. If you start to look at how things unfolded and who received land there, it all makes sense.

Humprhies - Hogan
Bass Pro - Gaylord Entertainment
Ballpark -- Gaylord Entertainment

There was a better option, but you're right, the good 'ol boys did win out. I think what people will find is that it matters very little who the mayor/city council are. What matters are the nameless, faceless individuals who occupy seats on OCURA, the Airport Trust, the Fairgrounds Trust, etc. If you start to look there, then look at who has the traditionally received all of the juicy contracts and land deals, I think you'll start to see a correlation -- and they don't even try to hide it.

The press ignores the story because the people who own the press are the story. These people and their dealings appear in honest publications all the time (like the Gazette), yet no one who should be doing something (City Hall, the Attorney General) does anything. No one is going to challenge the fifth estate and the good 'ol boys network. To do so is political suicide.

Don't believe it? Look at Moshe Tal -- denied relief at every level, and when he does appear in the news, they try their best to make him look like a fool. It's hard to believe that anyone with a brain would deny that there are shady goings-on here, but it happens. People just don't care enough these days to read between the lines.

[Patrick]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Midtowner!

And yes, I do actually remember Bricktown before it was what it is today. I remember back in the 80's when it was only an idustrial area, a decaying one at that. Then Spaghetti Wharehouse moved in, and everyone laughed. Bricktown Brewery followed suit. Everyone still laughed.

So, I do know Bricktown today vs. Bricktown of yesterday is like night and day.

And one thing we have to consider as well is that back when Hogan was chosen to develop Lower Bricktown, we weren't expecting a whole lot, because there wasn't much down there. Back then Randy's master plan (he actually had one supposedly) looked good.

We had also just come out of the failure of the Pei plan and the oil bust, so I'm sure city leaders wanted to go with someone they felt they could trust, not necessarily with the plan that looked the best.

Still many had their questions about the way things were handled in the approval of Hogan. I think the most vocal opponents were Jack Cornett and the elderly lady that served the south side.....her name is absent from my mind right now.

[Patrick]

I have a good solution to the problem....expand the reaches of Bricktown to include Lower Bricktown....that way the Bricktown Association and Design Committee has to approve everything. You saw how strict they were with the Hampton Inn! That's what we need.

[Midtowner]

How is the membership for that committee chosen? Do you know?

I'm thinking that they'd be subject to the same issues that OCURA, the Airport Trust, etc. are.

[Patrick]

They're actually selected by the Bricktown Association......Bricktown plays under its own rules. The group is made up of Bricktown property owners. Avis, owner of Nonnas, was one of the biggest players in the changes made to the proposed Hampton Inn.

[Jack]

It doesn't help having a canal that goes absolutely nowhere. What's up with that?

[BDP]

I think Immortal makes great points. The key to sustainability is uniqueness. The West End in Dallas is bricktown's future at this point. It was cool in the beginning because it had density and structures that weren't present in the rest of Dallas, but it filled itself with tenant that didn't add much to the city as a whole. So, now locals don't go there and now it's a pretty sterile place in what was once consider an interesting environment. Deep Ellum and Lower Greenville popped up to provide unique places to go and have much more interesting establishments. I'm hoping this model plays out in OKC as well with Mid-Town and Uptown growing.

I think some property owners, especially those on the canal, have a very inflated sense of importance and limited vision. They only want chains with deep pockets and bland food. It really upsets me when you see these people benefit from a big public risk not return the favor with taking some risk on the public that spent money to add immeasurable value to their property. it has been documented that some locals have wanted to open places in Bricktown, but the owners won't take any risk. I have no idea why they prefer to leave space vacant rather than let some new ideas come in. It seems those off the canal have been more open to new ideas and have provided us with more interesting establishments. Truth is, I hardly ever go to the canal. There's nothing new there.

However, I really do think this is a measure of potential. I think the frustrated people here see much more potential from bricktown and OKC than many of these developers. Yes, it is better. Yes, OKC has bettered itself 10 fold in as many years. But, it has to keep that momentum going and it is time to move past this "whatever we can get" attitude of the old timers and adopt some of the "let's make it really great" attitude of the newer people.

I think we'll see the real innovation and interesting additions to our city as its undervalued areas begin to develop. Bricktown has locked itself in an overvalued position, where it has to bring tenants with lots of capital and little imagination. Bricktown has begin to positioned itself outside of Phase II of the city renaissance, which usually happens much more organically with much more interesting results. They could change that, but the Hogan approach will have to abandoned.