Downtown Parking

[Just the facts]

I think that there is a real opportunity to integrate streetcar service with a parking garage on the line.

That is what I am talking about. It is one thing for parking garages to be located along the line (in fact, it would be impossible not to do it), but it wouldn't make sense to build a parking garage right next to a central hub that is only being built to accommodate future rail based commuters - otherwise, why even build a transit hub.

[Spartan]

Why would you build a parking garage at a transit hub? The whole purpose of a transit hub is to get people to ride transit, not make it easier for them to drive their own cars. The only garage that should be at a transit hub is one to hold about 10 rental cars, and that is only if the OKC-Tulsa route comes into existance.

Oh my goodness, this is not your finest post if you want to show that you have much knowledge of what's going on. I would encourage you to take a look at the transit hub masterplan, which involves expanding Sante Fe Depot to be our "Grand Central Station." It won't just be the streetcar, but also commuter rail, LRT, and Amtrak--and it will involve a very large parking garage connected to the station at Reno Avenue. If memory serves me correctly, about 500 spaces.

[Larry OKC]

Spartan, I agree. There are going to be plenty of folks that drive their cars in order to get to the transit hub. I don't see it as being that much different than driving your car to the airport, a park-n-ride lot or anything else. If a mass transit option isn't conveniently located to where you are already at, then you have to be able to get to it somehow...

...Why would the City/State/Region spend money to create commuter rail and then build a parking garage for commuters right next to the final destination?...

But that is the point, the transit hub is NOT the final destination, just a place to connect with the next transit means to get you to your final destination.

[ljbab728]

Bomber, are you seriously going to drive in from Midwest City and go to Midtown, via stopping at the downtown hub and riding the streetcar. Just go park in Midtown. If your destination is Bricktown then park in Bricktown. I can't think of a single city in the world that has a parking garage at their transit hub. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I have looked at a lot of system I have yet to see it.

Kerry, please note this article which projects 2,000,000 square feet of parking in Denver in their new transportation hub development.

http://www.unionstationneighborhoodc...ail.aspx?id=11

Just as in OKC, not all of the parking will directed at those who use the transportation hub.

[kevinpate]

why wouldn't there be a need for parking near a multi-mode transit hub? Presumably there would be folks using the hub who are traveling away from OKC as well as traveling to OKC. They need parking as well, unless they'll ride a city bus or a cab in from where ever they live.

[Lauri101]

3 or 4 blocks is a very long way when it is raining or icy. And I will believe a street car that DT workers can take from a parking garage to their offices when I see one. I already walk about 3 blocks to work. You think adding 3 or 4 more is no big deal? If they are selling off DT parking garages to private companies for private use they have a responsibility to make sure there is still enough parking. When I read that article I wanted to hear what their plans were for replacing lost parking spaces. Not how happy they were that now they were debt free and can look into giving other areas garages.

I agree with OSUMom, with additional reasons. I have moderate to severe RA. I know that exercise is good and I walk when I can, but there are times when a walk of even a block is agonizing. "Handicapped" accessible parking is more than a block from the IRS building. We have had taxpayers in wheelchairs come in and tell us they've had to park blocks away and (especially now) not even have sidewalks to navigate. GSA will not let us leave the CBD as some idiot thinks we can serve more of our customer base from DT. Maybe that's true in NYC or Chicago, but not in OKC.
Government (county, state and federal) employees don't get employer-supplied parking - we get to pay $75-100 a month for the privilege of parking to come to work. I've probably paid enough in 27 years of DT working to purchase a small lot and I understand it's the price we pay. All I ask for is the ability to come to work and park in a spot that is safe and a reasonable distance from my office.
And for those of you who judge folks who are unable to walk 4 blocks - walk a block in my orthopedic shoes.

[Just the facts]

If a parking garage is built next to the central hub it will do nothing but rob commuter rail of passengers.

[Just the facts]

Kerry, please note this article which projects 2,000,000 square feet of parking in Denver in their new transportation hub development.

http://www.unionstationneighborhoodc...ail.aspx?id=11

Just as in OKC, not all of the parking will directed at those who use the transportation hub.

I think that 2,000,000 sq feet of parking is for the 900,000 sq feet of residential. They don't intend for people to drive their car to the central hub and then take local mass transit the final 4 or 5 blocks.

http://www.unionstationneighborhoodc...tail.aspx?id=6

Through Transportation
Downtown Denver is pedestrian friendly, to a point. You can get in and out of the city quickly, but there is one major problem with venturing downtown, parking. An overabundance of two-hour meters and overly expensive parking garages is not the answer. Denverites are looking for convenience.
And, convenience comes in the form of public transportation.

With the development of the Union Station Neighborhood, all of downtown Denver is connected. Connected through urban shuttles and buses, connected through pedestrian bridges and walkways, and finally, connected through light rail and commuter rail.

It is easier to get from home to work to dinner, and back home again, using public transit than your automobile. Plus, it is more cost effective.

A fluid public transportation system is the final, and most important, puzzle piece in the development of downtown Denver.

[Just the facts]

I agree with OSUMom, with additional reasons. I have moderate to severe RA. I know that exercise is good and I walk when I can, but there are times when a walk of even a block is agonizing. "Handicapped" accessible parking is more than a block from the IRS building. We have had taxpayers in wheelchairs come in and tell us they've had to park blocks away and (especially now) not even have sidewalks to navigate. GSA will not let us leave the CBD as some idiot thinks we can serve more of our customer base from DT. Maybe that's true in NYC or Chicago, but not in OKC.
Government (county, state and federal) employees don't get employer-supplied parking - we get to pay $75-100 a month for the privilege of parking to come to work. I've probably paid enough in 27 years of DT working to purchase a small lot and I understand it's the price we pay. All I ask for is the ability to come to work and park in a spot that is safe and a reasonable distance from my office.
And for those of you who judge folks who are unable to walk 4 blocks - walk a block in my orthopedic shoes.

Out of curosity, what if you could park in a remote lot just outside downtown and be dropped off and picked up right at your office door by a private shuttle bus. Would that be worth $150 per month (including the parking)?

[Urban Pioneer]

I agree with OSUMom, with additional reasons. I have moderate to severe RA. I know that exercise is good and I walk when I can, but there are times when a walk of even a block is agonizing. "Handicapped" accessible parking is more than a block from the IRS building. We have had taxpayers in wheelchairs come in and tell us they've had to park blocks away and (especially now) not even have sidewalks to navigate. GSA will not let us leave the CBD as some idiot thinks we can serve more of our customer base from DT. Maybe that's true in NYC or Chicago, but not in OKC.
Government (county, state and federal) employees don't get employer-supplied parking - we get to pay $75-100 a month for the privilege of parking to come to work. I've probably paid enough in 27 years of DT working to purchase a small lot and I understand it's the price we pay. All I ask for is the ability to come to work and park in a spot that is safe and a reasonable distance from my office.
And for those of you who judge folks who are unable to walk 4 blocks - walk a block in my orthopedic shoes.

The streetcar will be running directly in front the IRS building and will provide low floor ADA accessibility for people in wheel chairs. We haven't identified the stop locations yet, but presumably there will be two very nearby if not almost in front.

Regarding parking, Project 180 is adding many spaces although I would expect the IRS not to have any near the building for security/car bomb reasons post OKC and 9-11. The same for any IRS building or Federal Courthouse. Why they aren't even planting trees out front even though they were specced because the Federal Marshals asked them not to.

[ljbab728]

I think that 2,000,000 sq feet of parking is for the 900,000 sq feet of residential. They don't intend for people to drive their car to the central hub and then take local mass transit the final 4 or 5 blocks.

http://www.unionstationneighborhoodc...tail.aspx?id=6

You can think that all you want. I saw nothing that validates that reasoning. Are you actually trying to say that a residential development requires more square feet for parking than for the residential? Just as I said before, the parking that Denver is planning is for multiple reasons just as the OKC parking would be. Our parking is not intended just for the transportation hub.

[Lauri101]

Out of curosity, what if you could park in a remote lot just outside downtown and be dropped off and picked up right at your office door by a private shuttle bus. Would that be worth $150 per month (including the parking)?

Maybe, if the hours were right. (My TOD is 5 AM to 3 PM but somewhat flexible. ) Seems a bit steep on the shuttle bus ($2.50 a day avg) but would be worth it in inclement weather. For that kind of money, remote parking should be in a secured lot at least. I know enough people in our building alone that would probably fill a 50 space lot with a deal like this - if the terms were right.
If this is a serious possibility (versus idle speculation) please PM me. Our employee's union would be interested in offering subsidies to members.

[Just the facts]

Maybe, if the hours were right. (My TOD is 5 AM to 3 PM but somewhat flexible. ) Seems a bit steep on the shuttle bus ($2.50 a day avg) but would be worth it in inclement weather. For that kind of money, remote parking should be in a secured lot at least. I know enough people in our building alone that would probably fill a 50 space lot with a deal like this - if the terms were right.
If this is a serious possibility (versus idle speculation) please PM me. Our employee's union would be interested in offering subsidies to members.

Idle speculation at this point.

[Just the facts]

You can think that all you want. I saw nothing that validates that reasoning. Are you actually trying to say that a residential development requires more square feet for parking than for the residential? Just as I said before, the parking that Denver is planning is for multiple reasons just as the OKC parking would be. Our parking is not intended just for the transportation hub.

I don't have to think it - I read it right on the Denver plan. They don't want you to drive your car downtown to their station development, they want you take rail into downtown. Most of the parking is for the people that will live there, but I am sure they also know that people working in the 2,500,000 sq feet of office/hotel space will also not all take the train. I wonder how much of the parking is required by zoning laws. I'll bet if they didn't have to they wouldn't provide any parking - but that is just specualtion on my part.

On Edit - I will call them on Monday and ask.

[Urban Pioneer]

Our parking in our hub plan is primarily for the future. They assume that Santa Fe parking and the Cox Convention center underground garage resolves immediate Amtrak needs. The planned future garage is primarily for inter-city/state High Speed Rail and car rental companies. It would be located by the old U-Haul bldg in Brictown. It is probably not needed for at least 15-20 years.

[Just the facts]

Our parking in our hub plan is primarily for the future. They assume that Santa Fe parking and the Cox Convention center underground garage resolves immediate Amtrak needs. The planned future garage is primarily for inter-city/state High Speed Rail and car rental companies. It would be located by the old U-Haul bldg in Brictown. It is probably not needed for at least 15-20 years.

Thank you for clearing that up. I am still interested in talking to someone at the Denver Rail Station project about their parking requirements. Do you know anything about their parking situation?

[Rover]

I think that some on here would love to ban all automobiles and force everyone to look at the world in their own myopic sense. Nothing that can be said will change their mind. So be it. LOL

I travel extensively and use trains where I can. Almost every train station I go to has nearby parking. If our hub plan includes inter city trains we will need convenient parking. Heaven forbid, some people who use the system will also use cars...GASP. Those ignoramuses.

[Urban Pioneer]

Lol

[Just the facts]

I think that some on here would love to ban all automobiles and force everyone to look at the world in their own myopic sense. Nothing that can be said will change their mind. So be it. LOL

I travel extensively and use trains where I can. Almost every train station I go to has nearby parking. If our hub plan includes inter city trains we will need convenient parking. Heaven forbid, some people who use the system will also use cars...GASP. Those ignoramuses.

Rover - you are free to use your car as much as you want, but why should tax dollars to build a place for you to park it take priority over other transportation options?

[betts]

I'm going to agree with Rover on this one. While I'm already carless when I'm doing things downtown, people are going to be driving downtown for quite a while - like indefinitely. When we're in NYC, my relatives from Connecticut drive down. There are plenty of cars in Manhattan, if quite a few less per capita than here, and the same holds true for Chicago and San Francisco. I like the idea that, if we're going to be building parking with my tax dollars anyway, we build the planned parking garage for the hub. It helps set the concept of the hub as the transit center for downtown, and it's close enough to everything downtown that people can easily walk from it, as well as being close to Bricktown and Deep Deuce, which is soon going to have more restaurants than Automobile Alley.

[Rover]

Rover - you are free to use your car as much as you want, but why should tax dollars to build a place for you to park it take priority over other transportation options?

Why do we need the rest of our organs? Get rid of the heart and the lungs. All we need is our head, right?

I think credibility is lost if anyone is suggesting that OKC will be a public transit only, or even public transit predominant city anytime in the next 100 years..even in the core. It isn't that way anywhere in the world and never will be. This insistence that the only reasonable options are on the extreme is just fantasy. Thank goodness the people in control are more balanced, pragmatic and realistic. Moving to a better city design will take decades, but it will never eliminate the things that get certain people frothing.

[OSUMom]

Rover - you are free to use your car as much as you want, but why should tax dollars to build a place for you to park it take priority over other transportation options?

Just to remind you that most of this discussion started in the Sandridge thread when it was reported that the city sold Sandridge one of it's monthly parking garages. It's not like we want a ton more garages over better public transporation options but how about atleast replacing the parking spaces they just sold off to a few private companies?

[Just the facts]

We seem to be getting a little off track. I am not saying that parking garages shouldn't be built downtown. All I am saying is that building a parking garage at a central hub will divert commuter rail passengers back into their cars. It is a multi-modal hub, not a park and ride lot for local transit. The intent is to pick up passengers in Norman, Midwest City, Edmond, and a few other places and have them ride rail into downtown. Once downtown they then transfer to streetcars, taxis, pedicabs, walking, inner-city rail, HSR, and city bus. If you live in Edmond and your destination is Midtown why would you drive all the way from Edmond to park in a garage at the central hub, then transfer to local transit when you could just park in Midtown. Then if you want to go to another part of downtown you would ride local transit. If they build a parking garage at the hub who would ride commuter rail?

How many people who go to Penn Sq Mall drive to 63rd and Penn and hop on the #8 bus for the final half mile? Answer, no one. They park at the mall.

[Urban Pioneer]

Why do we need the rest of our organs? Get rid of the heart and the lungs. All we need is our head, right?

I think credibility is lost if anyone is suggesting that OKC will be a public transit only, or even public transit predominant city anytime in the next 100 years..even in the core.

While I agree that car dominance will persist in OKC due to the sprawl, I do think that the core could/will easily become a place where people could live without a car. In fact, I think that the historical central city will evolve into a place with good transit and enable the ability to be independent of a car by choice within our lifetime. The suburbs will undeniably be either a "Park n' Ride" or a "Bike n' Ride" if modern history in other cities is any guide.

I think that OKC will become even more competitive with other cities by developing choice. Choice to live only by car, partly by car, or entirely without a car easily within the next twenty years depending on your proximity to the core. And that really can't be a bad thing economically or culturally speaking.

But back on topic, let's be real. Downtown real estate is too valuable to spend on low density surface parking lots or badly designed garages for the sake of people making 5 minute trips or front door access. Use the new streetcar to distribute the parking load with new future garages appropriately sized and reasonably spaced. For that matter, it will enable distribution to a great many more under-utilized streets spaces as well.

[Just the facts]

Found this interesting new feature on Zillow. They have compiled a walk score for every house in America. Each point on the score translates to $3,000 in property value. Sadly, they used "as the crow fly" distances in their calculation. I can't drive my car "as the crow flys".

http://www.walkscore.com/how-it-works.shtml