OKC/Will Rogers Air Service Discussion 2011

[SkyWestOKC]

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Aug...20Activity.pdf

August stat numbers posted today. Good to see cargo (freight) coming back up finally.

[ljbab728]

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Aug...20Activity.pdf

August stat numbers posted today. Good to see cargo (freight) coming back up finally.

Any idea why the military operations are up so significantly?

[OUman]

^No clue about that, but a few weeks ago earlier this month, I saw two KC 135s parked on the ramp at the west ARINC hangar (there are two now, one east and one west).

[venture]

Does each touch and go count as one on that list? It almost would have to since that is roughly 88 military flights arriving a day. Increased training with the hot temps? /shrug

[SkyWestOKC]

An operation consists of any function that enters the tower airspace under control of the local controller (tower operator).

Full stop landings, touch and go's, stop and go's, low approaches, takeoffs all constitute an operation, respectively. Also VFR traffic transitioning the tower airspace constitute an operation, e.g. flying over the airport inside of the tower's airspace boundaries.

[venture]

Ahh, so could argue that even water drop operations in the area would fall under military as well?

[SkyWestOKC]

If they are within ~4 miles of WRWA then yes. Depends who is controlling them, also. Basically, if they are airborne and OKC Tower talks to them, it's an operation of some sort. That's the easiest way to put it.

[SkyWestOKC]

Getting some diversions right now from DFW. MD-11F is about to land.

[redrunner]

Was that the Lufthansa Air Cargo from MEX?

[SkyWestOKC]

Yes. Virgin America just landed too.

[damonsmuz]

This doesn't really pertain to "Air Service" but more so the layout of KOKC. Anyone able to shed light on the purpose of runway 31/13? I understand the need for 17/35 both L and R...but, to me 31/13 seems kinda odd. Even from a weather standpoint, winds that would benefit that runway more than 17/35 are seldom seen here in The Southern Plains. Do commercial aircraft ever land on it? I know some take off...but, never seen anyone land... any insight would be great!

[SkyWestOKC]

When the wind is out of the south or southeast a lot of airlines use 13 to land if they are approaching from the west. For example, LAS, LAS, DEN etc. Approach is more straight in.

When WRWA was first built, it had the traditional runway layout of the time, which was a runway going NE/SW, NW/SE, and N/S. The current 17R/35L was the only N/S runway, 13/31 was shorter but still there, and there was a NE/SW runway (where the old 747 sits by the FAA is what remains of that runway today). Our prevailing wind is from the north and northwest, the NE/SW runway was eventually decommissioned and mostly destructed.

[SkyWestOKC]

Just in case anyone was curious, was passing by the United guys unloading the San Fran flight this evening to the baggage claim. Saw about 10 bags on the cart before the belt started, so that flight was probably pretty empty.

[OUman]

^To add to what Skywest said about the OKC runway layout, one should also consider that while our prevailing winds are generally in a northerly/southerly direction, many a time, the winds can be quite strong from the west or west-northwest, and planes will use RWY 31 solely for departures. And then we get that occasional day when the winds act like there's no tomorrow (sustained 40 mph gusting to 50 or more) stright out of the northwest behind a strong cold front, so that would be another time that runway would come to very good use.

On the other hand, some pilots like using it for departures (RWY 31) or arrivals (RWY 13) since in either case, taxiing time to/from the terminal is much shorter than going all the way to, say RWY 35L/R. And I've even experienced a downwind takeoff from RWY 31 in a Southwest jet when the winds were weak enough (winds were S at 9 mph). The pilots were probably used to operating to/from MDW is my guess.

[BrettM2]

Just in case anyone was curious, was passing by the United guys unloading the San Fran flight this evening to the baggage claim. Saw about 10 bags on the cart before the belt started, so that flight was probably pretty empty.

I flew to San Fran on Friday morning (departure at 7) and it seemed to be pretty full. I don't think at capacity, but I don't remember seeing tons of empty seats either. Is that normal for those flights? Just curious how OKC is faring.

[SkyWestOKC]

I'm not sure. I hear it is doing okay, but I don't have direct access to United's loads.

[SkyWestOKC]

Another Delta mainline injection for the Thanksgiving week. (This is probably due to a/c position more than demand, given the date of this one)

DTW-OKC will have a MD88 on 24NOV. The aircraft will RON in OKC and leave OKC for ATL the following morning.

[venture]

Alaska is starting service to Kansas City in March. Hopefully they'll eventually look our way.

[SkyWestOKC]

Hopefully. I wish the BTS data wasn't so out of date, the traffic gains we have been having this year won't be truly reflected in the BTS datasets until the middle of next year. Latest data was from Oct-Dec 2010, Jan-Mar 2011 data was due to be released in September, but here it is getting close to the middle of October.

[SkyWestOKC]

Delta loaded a mainline flight to Memphis for the last 2 weeks of December.

Operates Mon-Fri 19Dec11 to 03Jan12. A/c is an Airbus A319

Probably temporary additional capacity for holiday traffic. They have been adding a lot of mainline "injections" into the market lately to other hubs. Hopefully they are experimenting with additional capacity and eventually we will hold some more mainline flights in the future schedules.

[SkyWestOKC]

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Sep...nplanement.pdf

Ouch....

[OUman]

September/October usually are the slowest months anyway, so it's not really a surprise that traffic is down. And then Frontier actually posted a big gain, which is a surprise (to me anyway).

Meanwhile, it appears DL/DL Conxn are now downsizing the MEM (Memphis) hub quite a bit:
http://airlineroute.net/2011/10/11/dl-mem-jan12/

I have a feeling OKC will be one of the airports in the next round...

And umm, not to sound ungrateful but, since when did I become a VIP member? I haven't even paid anything lol. Strange... Mods?

[SkyWestOKC]

September/October usually are the slowest months anyway, so it's not really a surprise that traffic is down. And then Frontier actually posted a big gain, which is a surprise (to me anyway).

Meanwhile, it appears DL/DL Conxn are now downsizing the MEM (Memphis) hub quite a bit:
http://airlineroute.net/2011/10/11/dl-mem-jan12/

And umm, not to sound ungrateful but, since when did I become a VIP member? I haven't even paid anything lol. Strange... Mods?

I haven't heard anything about MEM being reduced. We are getting mainline (as mentioned in the post above mine) to Memphis, on a temporary basis. We will probably be one of the last markets our size to lose MEM service. The seats we lose to Memphis will be absorbed by DTW and ATL anyway. On a seat-for-seat basis, we will stay neutral with MEM closing.

[venture]

Yeah the September numbers are going to be a mix of going into the slow season and rationalization by airlines. United Continental made up what...almost 60% of the total decline. Southwest was the other major one with a drop of almost 6000 passengers themselves. However, I would really like to see these numbers compared to seats available in the market at the time. That is what I am most interested in. If it is a simple down gauge in aircraft, so be it...but if the seats available are pretty consistent than that is a good indicator of the market getting weaker.

As far as MEM. Airliners had a thread about this started on the 10th and it is finally getting picked up by the media. Memphis is losing nonstop service to Baltimore, Gulfport, Grand Rapids, Wichita, Mobile, Seattle, and Panama City FL. The thread is here....http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo....main/5275707/

I will say one this about A.net...the people on there do tend to find things like this a good time ahead of the media. Not to mention prior to when the airlines officially want to release the info. The MEM hub will probably be gone in 3-5 years and existing capacity will likely absorb. Of course a lot will change in the next few years.

Also another side note. FAA has required the designation of San Francisco (SFO) as a Level 2 slot controlled airport starting next Spring through Fall. Airlines will now be slot restricted during the hours of 6AM to 11PM. This could weigh into the ability for OKC to retain service if loans/yields aren't high enough.

[SkyWestOKC]

I know for a fact Delta, American, and Frontier have been capacity positive in September.