Lake Overholser and Hefner

[ranbunctious]

Anybody seen the city lakes? OMG Whoever manages the lakes is absolutely worthless. I wish they'd let me manage the lakes. The first thing I'd do is dredge them about 10 feet deeper while the water's gone. They could sell the bottom dirt (silt) to offset the cost. That dirt is the richest and most fertile dirt around. Maybe even let people go out and dig their own. I couldn't believe Overholser is only about 2 feet deep in the deepest part. Boats are on the dirt at Hefner. The fishing docks are over shallow water and are not baited or have proper underwater structure. If they don't dig Overholser deeper, it will always be a worthless mud hole.

[Snowman]

While they will preferably have enough water for recreation and look pretty, their first priority is managing quantity and quality the water supply. They will prioritize the drinking supply over recreation every time.

The following has been discuses in a few other threads about this but to summarize. Overholser was dry before the drought due to construction on the old 66 bridge and a temporary dam built for that. As far as digging/dredging they do not like to do that because it releases a lot of heavy minerals that have settled over time which then has to be pulled out before the water is suitable to drink.

[ranbunctious]

I didn't think Overholser water was pumped and purified into the system. I thought it was just a backup to Hefner. If that's the case, it would be wonderful to have that lake about 8 feet deeper. It would be much better fish habitat too. The thousands of fish there now are condemned to about a foot of water. No doubt there is a massive die-off happening. I just don't get why this lake absolutely must be so shallow??? It's absolutely useless as it is. How long does it take for the minerals to settle and the water to become non-toxic?

[OKCTalker]

Ran - Get up to speed. The most recent water release from Canton has been delayed until it rains. It they release water towards Hefner & Overholser into a dry riverbed, much of it will be lost to absorption.

That's GOOD water management.

[Snowman]

I didn't think Overholser water was pumped and purified into the system. I thought it was just a backup to Hefner. If that's the case, it would be wonderful to have that lake about 8 feet deeper. It would be much better fish habitat too. The thousands of fish there now are condemned to about a foot of water. No doubt there is a massive die-off happening. I just don't get why this lake absolutely must be so shallow??? It's absolutely useless as it is. How long does it take for the minerals to settle and the water to become non-toxic?

It was not a backup, it was the original OKC reservoir, it is nearing 100 years old, something around 40 years older than both Canton and Hefner. The city started planning another one shortly after it was finished I think even before the dust bowl, but it was a step up from not having any water practically every year when wells were going dry in the summer. It started out at a much more uniform depth but over time it has become half filled. While their is an operating water treatment plant station at it I think it only operates at peak summer months, it will probably affect several nearby cities downstream as well.

[bluedogok]

Silt is a big problem with Overholser since it sit on an active river, they have dredged it in the past but not very often. As previously stated, re-dredging it creates other water quality problems that has to be dealt with.

Stanley Draper Lake is another water source for OKC as well.

[oneforone]

I could be wrong but... I thought the city had plans to develop another lake to the east of Draper.

[ck76]

The Oklahoma River gets all of Overholsers water....

[Snowman]

I could be wrong but... I thought the city had plans to develop another lake to the east of Draper.

I know they were working on getting rights to store/use a large volume of water at an existing lake southwest of the city but I had expected from how close it is to Lake Atoka it seems like they would just be making an extension of the 60 inch pipe between Lake Atoka & Draper so would not need another local reservoir. We might be thinking of different projects though.

[rcjunkie]

Anybody seen the city lakes? OMG Whoever manages the lakes is absolutely worthless. I wish they'd let me manage the lakes. The first thing I'd do is dredge them about 10 feet deeper while the water's gone. They could sell the bottom dirt (silt) to offset the cost. That dirt is the richest and most fertile dirt around. Maybe even let people go out and dig their own. I couldn't believe Overholser is only about 2 feet deep in the deepest part. Boats are on the dirt at Hefner. The fishing docks are over shallow water and are not baited or have proper underwater structure. If they don't dig Overholser deeper, it will always be a worthless mud hole.

I worked for the City for almost 30 years, and I never knew the Mayor, City Manager or Council had Mother Natures Phone Number, get me the number and i'll call and ask for what 5--6 inch's

[FritterGirl]

Ran - Get up to speed. The most recent water release from Canton has been delayed until it rains. It they release water towards Hefner & Overholser into a dry riverbed, much of it will be lost to absorption.

That's GOOD water management.

It's not my department, but this is absolutely correct. The City is just as reliant upon Mother Nature right now as homeowners are. Simply put, the irrigation channels that transport the water to Overholser and/or Hefner are just as dried up as the Lakes themselves, moreso. Releasing water into them means that any water released is wasted when it is quickly absorbed into the dry ground. They have to wait until there is enough water already in the irrigation channels so they don't waste water by losing it to absorption.

As OKCTalker said, it is GOOD water management.

It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but this is what can occur after months and months of high temperatures and little rainfall.

[OKCTalker]

I read recently that "Lake Overholser is almost empty," so I paid a visit on Saturday. The south shoreline appears to be almost dam-like, so the water's edge is horizontally near where it would have been in wetter times, although it is vertically lower by 6-8 feet. However, when looking onto the lake from the north shore, it is dramatic! The lake bottom is shallow there, so the water's edge has receded hundreds of yards from where it usually is. If you simply looked south from the north shore, you might be deceived into thinking that this was the situation all the way around. To paraphrase Will Rogers, "You need to see it from all sides."

It's grim to be sure, but some liberties are being taken in describing the conditions.

[Bill Robertson]

Anybody seen the city lakes? OMG Whoever manages the lakes is absolutely worthless. I wish they'd let me manage the lakes. The first thing I'd do is dredge them about 10 feet deeper while the water's gone. They could sell the bottom dirt (silt) to offset the cost. That dirt is the richest and most fertile dirt around. Maybe even let people go out and dig their own. I couldn't believe Overholser is only about 3 feet deep in the deepest part. Boats are on the dirt at Hefner. The fishing docks are over shallow water and are not baited or have proper underwater structure. If they don't dig Overholser deeper, it will always be a worthless mud hole.

Actually Overholser is about 4 feet deep at the most shallow north end when full. The deepest part by the dam is over 20 feet. I have a vested interest in lake levels. My boat normally is in Hefner and would be on dry land if I had not pulled it out before the ramps became unusable. It's not good but as powerful as OKC is they cannot make it rain. Even if it rains enough to release water from Canton I understand Canton is about 5 feet low and if so they won't take enough to make a whole lot of difference in Hefner and Overholser. Also, it's my understanding from those who fish that the docks at Hefner are very good fishing under normal conditions.

[bluedogok]

Lake Travis is 60 feet below full and about 38 feet below average right now, all public boat ramps are closed. The Highland Lakes that all feed into Travis are all at historical lows. Wasn't large parts of Lake Texoma closed this summer? It is just a bad summer for lakes all over the area.

[Martin]

Wasn't large parts of Lake Texoma closed this summer?

yep... due to low water levels and algae. -M

[Double Edge]

I'm somewhat surprised we haven't had water rationing. I guess the managers think they have it all under control.

[kevinpate]

Speaking of lakes, is the work still on-going at Draper, or has it been completed? I was shocked at how low it was earlier until someone here clued me in on the missed by me announcement that the water level was deliberately lowered due to some work underway there.

[OKCTalker]

I'm somewhat surprised we haven't had water rationing. I guess the managers think they have it all under control.

If no one ran out of water during this drought, obviously they do.

[Mikemarsh51]

The pump upgrades for Draper are complete. The city is still upgrading the lake in other areas while the water is down, they built a huge breakwater at the main ramp and repaired the ramp. The city was pumping approx. 120 million gallons a day from Atoka and using about 110 million a day. Draper has no rivers running through it, all water comes from Atoka. It could take up to 5 years to fill it back to normal. OKC owns Atoka, Sardis and McGee Creek. Water may be pumped from Sardis and McGee to Atoka, not yet though. The proposed lake next to Draper is called West Elm Creek reservoir. There is a West Elm Creek that runs south, west of Draper.

[Midtowner]

Are they going to go ahead and release from Canton now? Rode around Hefner last night and it was amazingly low.

[Double Edge]

I don't know if it was from the rain or a release from Canton but Stinchcomb, the Canadian through Stinchcomb and the canal alongside Overholser are full. The Canadian at Highway 4 north of Yukon is still a trickle so whatever happened, isn't happening this morning. I suspect it's runoff from the recent rain.

[Double Edge]

What's the story with the Chickasaw/Neal McCaleb commercial where he talks about water? Does the Chickasaw Nation have some important control of water in Oklahoma?

[Midtowner]

Totally separate issue, could take its own thread. Basically, old case law (early 20th century) said that certain tribes in the Western U.S. had water rights implied in their treaties. There's also a legal theory that when the tribes moved to their reservations, they conveyed away their right to occupy their land but they never conveyed away the water or mineral rights in many cases and therefore retained them. The Chickasaw issue centers around Sardis lake. The Tribe waited around until the lake was built and paid for by OKC as had been planned, then they asserted that they owned some of that water and wanted to sell it to Texas. Their theory is probably centered on Winters vs. U.S. in which the Court held that when the feds put natives on their land, they planned for them to be an agrarian people. Thus, an implied grant of water rights--enough to irrigate all of the irrigable land was part of the deal. Now we know Eastern OK doesn't really need extra water for irrigation, so the indians' argument is probably a non-starter, but if they have ANY measure of success, the implications for U.S. water policy could be severe.

[Bellaboo]

I read an article where the Caddo Nation is now claiming aboriginal water rights from Southeastern Oklahoma, superceeding the Chickasaw and Choctaw tribes - here's a snippet...



The Caddo Nation of Oklahoma is asserting aboriginal water rights in southeast Oklahoma.


Responding to questions from CapitolBeatOK, Brenda Shemayme Edwards, chairman of the Caddo, said, “While the Choctaw and Chickasaw are exerting their treaty rights, we will exert our aboriginal rights.” Aboriginal rights pre-date treaties and other laws, and are viewed by some legal analysts as dispositive.

[Midtowner]

Some legal analysts don't even buy the notion of aboriginal water rights.