Your Religion

[NazzerDawk]

Yes, i know everyone in the world has heard this a thousand times over. But I'm not here to convince others of anything, I'm here to learn. The best way to learn about people's belief is to ask specific questions, and I am intensely interested in what the zeitgeist of this board is in regard to religion.

So here's the question: What is your religion? Or, are you religion-less?

By Religion, I mean any supernatural beliefs regarding the creation or governance of the universe. This would include Christianity, Scientology, Raëlism, Buddhism, and even modest deism.

I describe myself as an Implicitly Agnostic Explicit Atheist. This is simply the most accurate label i have found for my position, which is that I do not claim to know whether gods exist, though I think it is also impossible to now if they do, but I do not happen to accept that any do. If I am asked by anyone in person, I just say "I'm an atheist".

Please keep this discussion civil. Disagreements are fine with me and I think they are likely to occur, but lets at least avoid needless rudeness or name-calling.

[Easy180]

Guess I am in the same boat...My brain just doesn't buy into the supernatural but completely understand those that do

[NazzerDawk]

I wouldn't say that I am understanding. I mean, I know why a lot of people buy into it (Faulty reasoning, absence of reasoning, lack of skepticism, etc) but I don't think that any such belief is justified until such a time as the individual is presented with good evidence.

[Roadhawg]

I'm Spiritual but not Religious. I don't believe in organized religion and not sure if I believe they is this one big guy in the sky that made everything and sometimes grants wishes.

[BBatesokc]

I think the labels placed on people and their beliefs are part of the problem I have with organized religion - that and the rampant hypocrisy and air of superiority. If I don't 'believe' then I am 'Atheist' according to many. I however don't consider myself an Atheist - as I don't reject the idea of a 'God' I simply don't subscribe to the idea. My 'religion' is my own and I don't need threat or fear to convince me what is good and bad. I've personally only known one truly full-time religious person that I respected - a pastor on S. Central who also operates the Christian Service Center on S. Robinson Ave.

[HewenttoJared]

http://www.bahai.org/

[NazzerDawk]

I think the labels placed on people and their beliefs are part of the problem I have with organized religion - that and the rampant hypocrisy and air of superiority. If I don't 'believe' then I am 'Atheist' according to many. I however don't consider myself an Atheist - as I don't reject the idea of a 'God' I simply don't subscribe to the idea. My 'religion' is my own and I don't need threat or fear to convince me what is good and bad. I've personally only known one truly full-time religious person that I respected - a pastor on S. Central who also operates the Christian Service Center on S. Robinson Ave.

"Just not subscribing to the idea" is what atheism is. It means "Without theism". Kinda like how saying "I am a non-smoker" doesn't automatically mean you think smoking or smokers are bad, just that you don't happen to smoke.


And don't think of them as labels for yourself, rather think of them as labels for your position. Besides, I don't see how labeling of positions is a problem with organized religion, after all, I don't see too many people becoming distressed that they were told they were a Christian. "NOOO, I'm a Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912! This labeling has to stop!"

[HewenttoJared]

Yea but people who are labeled atheists around here can suffer some pretty serious consequences at work and with their families. It's a label with consequences.

Unless you just want to quibble over agnosticism v atheism for a few pages. In that case, carry on : )

[BBatesokc]

"Just not subscribing to the idea" is what atheism is. It means "Without theism". Kinda like how saying "I am a non-smoker" doesn't automatically mean you think smoking or smokers are bad, just that you don't happen to smoke."

Most printed and spoken definitions are not so kind. Most specifically say an Atheist either rejects or does not believe. I don't do either. I'm open to the idea, I've just never felt the need, seen the proof or think most religious people have it 'correct.'

[sacolton]

I'm a non-denominational Christian/Agnostic.

Christian agnosticism means being a Christian despite uncertainty about whether Christian teachings are true. It is not an oxymoron because the two terms refer to different things - agnosticism to knowledge, and Christianity to belief.

The Christian agnostic acknowledges that it is not possible to know for certain if God exists. And if God does exist then there are additional unanswerable questions such as Why is there suffering? Why would God create a world knowing the pain we would all endure? What's the meaning of life? How can we know what God wants from us? Does God interact with the world? If so, in what ways? Of all religions, how does one know Christianity is true? And so on. Religion often uses storytelling to explore these questions. But belief is a matter of faith and not a matter of what can be proven or disproven. So we should not fault each other for believing or disbelieving.

Christianity requires additional leaps of faith. Various Christians may differ on particular points of belief, but this short list is common to all Christians: belief in God the Father; Jesus Christ as the risen Son of God through whom new life is extended to humanity; the Holy Spirit; the Bible as a foundational expression of Christian belief; and the Church as a community of believers.

Christian disagreements over the details of theology are many and will never be completely resolved. But the Christian agnostic understands that the most important thing is not to battle over who is right and who is wrong, but rather to try to understand each other through respectful dialogue.

[HewenttoJared]

I think most people who have faith should maintain a sliver of agnosticism. If you can't accept that you might be wrong how can you ever grow?

[Jersey Boss]

“Religion is what keeps the poor man from murdering the rich” (Napoleon Bonaparte)

[Caboose]

I describe myself as an Implicitly Agnostic Explicit Atheist. This is simply the most accurate label i have found for my position, which is that I do not claim to know whether gods exist, though I think it is also impossible to now if they do, but I do not happen to accept that any do. If I am asked by anyone in person, I just say "I'm an atheist".

Agnostic. There are things I know, and things I don't. I don't "believe in" anything. This applies to all subjects, not just religion. There is nothing worse than an religious agnostic who is a damn brain-dead cultist when it comes to politics, for example.

Also, I have found that as I have gotten older my religious agnosticism has morphed more into apathy. Its not even so much that I don't know anymore, it's that I don't even care. Sure, if I am feeling spry I will debate it with some "God Magic Believer" (And the worst kind of God Magic Believer is the kind that belittles other God Magic Believers for not believing in the exact same God Magic that he believes in).... but in my daily life it is not something I even bother to think about it.

[bandnerd]

I'll bite. Hardcore atheist. Midtowner loves to tell people this fact, even if I myself have not told them. Not that it's any of their business. My atheism comes from quite a few years of soul-searching, not from any one experience.

I am, however, open to possibilities. I just haven't come across anything else that I find convincing at this point in my life.

[Easy180]

I'll bite. Hardcore atheist. Midtowner loves to tell people this fact, even if I myself have not told them. Not that it's any of their business. My atheism comes from quite a few years of soul-searching, not from any one experience.

I am, however, open to possibilities. I just haven't come across anything else that I find convincing at this point in my life.

Same here...Total free agent who will sign with the first team with a convincing contract

[Double Edge]

I'll cop to non-believer, with an interest in the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path.

[HewenttoJared]

Agnostic. There are things I know, and things I don't. I don't "believe in" anything. This applies to all subjects, not just religion. There is nothing worse than an religious agnostic who is a damn brain-dead cultist when it comes to politics, for example.

Also, I have found that as I have gotten older my religious agnosticism has morphed more into apathy. Its not even so much that I don't know anymore, it's that I don't even care. Sure, if I am feeling spry I will debate it with some "God Magic Believer" (And the worst kind of God Magic Believer is the kind that belittles other God Magic Believers for not believing in the exact same God Magic that he believes in).... but in my daily life it is not something I even bother to think about it.

I don't believe in any God magic. Nice swipe though.

[Thunder]

The religion I am active within is Puritanism. Why? Do I really need to go into details?

[Caboose]

I don't believe in any God magic. Nice swipe though.

Yes you do.

[PennyQuilts]

Pagan.

I think we are hardwired to embrace religion - most of us. This is an "if the shoe fits comment," so don't take offence if it doesn't apply to you, but some of the most holier than thou folks I've ever met are those that lack a religious faith. They seem proud of the fact and never miss an opportunity to point out signs of ignorance, racism, sexism, blah, blah, blah in others. For some, politics and the belief that you can tell how moral or intelligent people are based on their politics is the real new age religion.

But I should also point out that some of the most ethical people I know, kind, wise, tolerant and the like, are nonbelievers.

[HewenttoJared]

Yes you do.

I really, really don't. But your general apathy towards religion and dislike of me personally prevents you from actually sinking your mind into it enough to grasp it.

[HewenttoJared]

But I should also point out that some of the most ethical people I know, kind, wise, tolerant and the like, are nonbelievers.

agreed

[Martin]

caboose, this thread has the potential to be an interesting discussion regarding different beliefs. while i won't discount your position regarding mysticism in religion, i do think that this can be a more meaningful discussion if you don't resort to using pejoratives when describing others' beliefs. -M

[Maynard]

The religion I am active within is Puritanism. Why? Do I really need to go into details?

"Wowser"

[RadicalModerate]

Great Question!
[NazzerDawk] . . .

And not nearly so "boring"--and/or "unresolvable"--as that ongoing/never-ending "'Angels on the Head of a Pin'/'Neo-Medieval'" "'Evolution/Darwinist'" 'controversy'" vis-a-vis "The Bigger Picture" =)

Note: Some folks use "punctuation marks" . . .
Others use "jots and tittles".

So, con su permiso . . . (so to speak)
Here is a tentative response to your inquiry (not involving MissingCyberLinks/Quotes, etc. =) . . .

[First: An example of "the teachings" of "'the church' 'that I used to go to'"] . . .

Religion
(c/o Karl Marx (c.1850?>>>c.1970/'72 [from when I was a child "at university" as they say in Oxford] . . .

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness
and self-esteem of man
who has either not yet won through to himself,
or has already lost himself again.
But man is no abstract being
squatting outside the world.
Man is the world of man—state, society.

This state and this society produce religion,
which is an inverted consciousness of the world,
because they are an inverted world.
Religion is the general theory of this world,
its encyclopedic compendium,
its logic in popular form,
its spiritual point d'honneur,
its enthusiasm, its moral sanction,
its solemn complement, and its universal basis
of consolation and justification.

It is the fantastic realization
of the human essence
since the human essence
has not acquired any true reality.
The struggle against religion is, therefore,
indirectly the struggle against that world
whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is,
at one and the same time,
the expression of real suffering
and a protest against real suffering.

Religion is the sigh
of the oppressed creature,
the heart of a heartless world,
and the soul of soulless conditions.
It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion
as the illusory happiness of the people
is the demand for their real happiness.

To call on them to give up their illusions
about their condition is to call on them
to give up a condition that requires illusions.
The criticism of religion is, therefore,
in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears
of which religion is the halo.
=====

(Note: I think that another, slightly different, translation of Karl Marx's [poetry from the dawn of the Industrial Revolution addressing the injustices contained therein] includes an unauthorized side-note from an unnamed "scribe" that says something about "but don't take it ("religion") away from them." [Still, I could be mistaken.])

[Next . . . That is, much further along the road, far later in The Journey of Life . . . And well after putting "[Un]selfish godless Humanism" (a.k.a. "ProtoNeoConDemocratic" Politics, etc.--including Rush Limbaugh) aside as a "viable alternative" rung on a ladder to "happiness" and "non-disgruntlement" (with a bit of Joy thrown in for good measure) =)]

=====
Kindness
(c/o Naomi Shihab Nye, accidentally and fortuitously, on NPR, in traffic on I-35 southbound c. 1995 . . . No, wait, that was her poem about "Wedding Cakes" and children. Never mind. =)

Before you know what kindness really is
you must lose things,
feel the future dissolve in a moment
like salt in a weakened broth.
What you held in your hand,
what you counted and carefully saved,
all this must go so you know
how desolate the landscape can be
between the regions of kindness.
How you ride and ride
thinking the bus will never stop,
the passengers eating maize and chicken
will stare out the window forever.

Before you learn the tender gravity of kindness,
you must travel where the Indian in a white poncho
lies dead by the side of the road.
You must see how this could be you,
how he too was someone
who journeyed through the night with plans
and the simple breath that kept him alive.

Before you know kindness as the deepest thing inside,
you must know sorrow as the other deepest thing.
You must wake up with sorrow.
You must speak to it till your voice
catches the thread of all sorrows
and you see the size of the cloth.

Then it is only kindness that makes sense anymore,
only kindness that ties your shoes
and sends you out into the day to mail letters and
purchase bread,
only kindness that raises its head
from the crowd of the world to say
it is I you have been looking for,
and then goes with you every where
like a shadow or a friend.
====

Personally . . . (and you are free to disagree or not, because this is, after all America.)
Jesus of Nazareth was all about Kindness. And Kindness on a level that each of us can only imagine approaching . . .

For example, I think that if Karl Marx--or even Usama/Osama bin Laden (who was, after all, only a Primitive Economic/Observer/Philosopher and not The Devil Himself =)--had actually met Jesus at the Well (c. 0030?) . . . Or on the Road to Damascus (c.0035?) or wherever . . . Or had later been among those First Disciples who gave everything they had to the cause without a trace of selfishness (not counting being a voluntary human bomb on a subway or airplane for "political/pie-in-the-sky" purposes). . . He--Karl M (or alternative)--would be a far better Actual Christian than I. In his day.

So . . .
I suppose that perhaps I am more of a "'Spiritual' Christian" than a "Religious [Christian]".
["Religion"]--in any form--can be very Unforgiving.
Just ask The Pharisees.

I have heard/read that Jesus said: The Kingdom of God is Within You.
(Some translate it: "Among You")
I'm thinkin' Be Kind in either case.

And while I'm on topic, here: Mea Culpa. Mea Maxima Culpa.
(I am far too judgemental and snarky about stuff that really doesn't matter.)

(Not to mention using far too many unnecessary and confusing punctuation marks.)
(sorry rcjunkie =)