Night Food Market in Downtown OKC

[BBatesokc]

Such an expensive camera don't even include flash? :-(

Video cameras don't use flashes. And good ones don't comes with onboard light sources - they have to be added and I wasn't going to lug a camera and light source around while I ate tacos and played with my dogs.

[BBatesokc]

Who participating in this topic was actually there when the shutdown occurred? Anyone? I see two guys in the Oklahoman's web video, but what I'm reading here is agents 'marching down the street with guns drawn'.

I was there and watched Steve arrive as the trucks were leaving. The "marching" is a Thunder statement and most people know to just read his statements for comedy relief (even when they are not meant to be funny).

I would guess two dozen agents were on the scene. They did all arrive in a caravan and the ABLE officers were openly armed.

[CurtisJ]

Who participating in this topic was actually there when the shutdown occurred? Anyone? I see two guys in the Oklahoman's web video, but what I'm reading here is agents 'marching down the street with guns drawn'.

I was actually there when the shut down occured, there was no marching, and although I did see at least one holstered weapon there were no "guns drawn". That being said, it was very obviously a show of force with the sole intention of shutting the place down. Why else would you need 10 Able and 10 health inspectors for 3 food trucks and a beer vendor?

And Thunder, I agree, this was a very frustrating experience, but have you ever considered Xanax?

[Thunder]

Brian, my #1 Android Smartphone, Samsung Epic, records in HD and has flash. The light comes on and stay on at night. Its really awesome. Something that iPhone can't compete.

[Larry OKC]

Even if a camera has flash, it has been my experience that it is only good for lighting something within 3 feet. Not going to be much help in a situation like this. That said, I have been amazed at what my cell phone camera is able to get in low light conditions (not black out by any means, but with ambient light). Have been able to get usable shots indoos at night, but haven't ever tried outdoors.But back to topic....

[BBatesokc]

Brian, my #1 Android Smartphone, Samsung Epic, records in HD and has flash. The light comes on and stay on at night. Its really awesome. Something that iPhone can't compete.

Yeah, and I'd have to be 2 foot from the subject or closer to even record anything worthwhile. And a Smartphone video camera is not considered a good video camera by any standards other than the lowest.

[onthestrip]

This is almost as funny as the multiple pics in the jokelahoman the other day with the guys rapelling out of helicopters in swat uniforms demonstrating how they raid pot fields. At least we know in our big league city we will be kept safe from food trucks and pot fields.
What a waste of taxpayer $$$.

No joke.

[bornhere]

I was stopped for a traffic violation the other day. The officer who stopped me was 'openly armed'. That's just kind of the way the whole law enforcement thing works.

Did they bring a paddy wagon and haul people to jail? No? Did they lob tear gas into the crowd? Taze people?

The whole subtext here seems to be that there's some 'upmarket urban hipness exemption' that should have been factored in to the enforcement process. If they had shut down three food trucks in a parking lot on SE 29th, I wonder if anyone here would be as outraged.

All these vendors had to do was comply with code, ie, provide a safe environment and product for their customers, and it doesn't sound like they did that.

I wasn't there, but if I had been, I think my major concern would have been that I had just gotten salmonella from something I had eaten.

[bluedogok]

They might have thought they were in compliance, the electrical cord issue may have never been a thought because that is generally an electrical code issue and out of the realm of thought for most restaurant operators, that is an electrical engineers concern.

Since there are literally thousands of codes and ordinances in existence with many overlapping authorities you can easily think you are in compliance when you may be in violation of some obscure varieties of them. As someone who deals with building codes and multiple authorities having jurisdiction over construction I can attest to this. Then you also have the opinions of code officials that may be in direct conflict with the opinions of other officials while trying to get you to comply with one interpretation you may be violating another. Our laws are so bastardized over years after years of rewrites to "correct" poorly written laws/ordinances leaving many in conflict with each other that it leads to the question of "which one do I follow". Unfortunately in most cases you have no idea which ones are going to be enforced but you try your best to follow them. Those who think the law (or code officials) are infallible are living in a fantasy land. I would not expect most law enforcement officers to know and enforce every law that is on the books, the sheer number of them makes that virtually impossible and again it is left to the interpretation of that officer as to which to enforce when you have laws in conflict. Again, I could probably walk into any business and find violations of codes, laws, ordinances or the ADA just from the things that I know from my experience in the architecture industry. I have done restaurants and you not only have city codes/reviewers to deal with, you the have city/county health department/inspectors to deal with in addition to other state health dept. regulations, DEQ (TCEQ here in Texas) regulations, ABLE/TABC commission regulations, etc. and I have found some regulations/interpretations in direct conflict with another reviewing agency. It comes down to just where do you draw the line?

[OKCRT]

Ok peoples. Ask yourselves this question.
Where did all the hungry people that were there go after they cops shut the vendors down?

Answer this question and you will have the answer to why the place was raided.

[krisb]

Much ado about nothing. Next time organize an event with appropriate permits and electricity. It doesn't help to blame everything on the authorities. That is so 1960s. The new, hip creative class vs. the old fogies with the city. Makes for some good drama.

[soonerguru]

Rover continues to impress me as one of the biggest sycophants to the OKC power structure in existence.

[JMStranger]

As part of the group that was shut down during the event I can say that the city did present an enormous force of agents to shut down an event that was planned to give the people of Oklahoma City another option for entertainment. Myself and others have been working very hard to make the lower side of Midtown another destination for people to enjoy themselves and hopefully connect it in time to the plaza court area. What transpired last night was not to "protect" the people but a bully tactic to show who is in charge. After they left the food truck area they preceded to enter Ludivine and threaten arrests as well as harass customers. This was unwarranted to unlawful in my eyes. To come after a participating business to harass it's owners and customers further shows that this was an unwarranted action on the part of the city as well as other city officials. I just hope the city learns that people want better and more community options and we will continue to work towards that but we have to find a common ground.

[Steve]

Ok peoples. Ask yourselves this question.
Where did all the hungry people that were there go after they cops shut the vendors down?

Answer this question and you will have the answer to why the place was raided.

Some stayed and had a good time at Elemental Coffee anyway. I heard others talking about trying out the new Hideaway on Broadway. Yet others simply decided to go home.

[Steve]

Much ado about nothing. Next time organize an event with appropriate permits and electricity. It doesn't help to blame everything on the authorities. That is so 1960s. The new, hip creative class vs. the old fogies with the city. Makes for some good drama.

Krisb, I guess that assumes the inspectors are telling the truth about permits and electricity. I'm hearing conflicting information. As we saw in Bricktown with the curfew crackdown, the authorities are sometimes in the wrong.

[dankrutka]

Rover continues to impress me as one of the biggest sycophants to the OKC power structure in existence.

It's simply amazing. If there is ever a thread challenging any person in power (legally or financially), Rover responds with all his passion against any type of dissent. Heaven forbid those in power ever make a mistake.

[MustangGT]

KT the same can be said for many others in the opposite camp, who automatically assume/knee jerk that the authorities are wrong. Both sides do it so it is what it is.

[Spartan]

I don't think the authorities are wrong. I think the laws and the system is wrong if we can't have an outdoor food alternative to expensive restaurants downtown. That is a wrong.

But it doesn't excuse ABLE's zeal in enforcing the wrong laws, and obviously, they are just doing their job. I think we have seen more than enough examples why this is an organization that needs to be eliminated, especially as it would help us balance the budget by eliminating another bureaucracy we don't need.

Keeping Costco, Trader Joe's, delicious Juenglueng beer, and more out is one thing--killing this outdoor food market is another thing--preventing new bars in Bricktown is another thing--and preventing new bars around Film Row is yet another thing. But all of these things combined are reasons why this bureaucracy needs to go, let alone the fact that everyone is having to cut their budget and risk closure in these tough economic times. How about instead of discontinuing historic building tax credits, we could eliminate ABLE. If anyone with any economic sense is making laws...

[dankrutka]

I don't think the authorities are wrong. I think the laws and the system is wrong if we can't have an outdoor food alternative to expensive restaurants downtown. That is a wrong.

But it doesn't excuse ABLE's zeal in enforcing the wrong laws, and obviously, they are just doing their job. I think we have seen more than enough examples why this is an organization that needs to be eliminated, especially as it would help us balance the budget by eliminating another bureaucracy we don't need.

Keeping Costco, Trader Joe's, delicious Juenglueng beer, and more out is one thing--killing this outdoor food market is another thing--preventing new bars in Bricktown is another thing--and preventing new bars around Film Row is yet another thing. But all of these things combined are reasons why this bureaucracy needs to go, let alone the fact that everyone is having to cut their budget and risk closure in these tough economic times. How about instead of discontinuing historic building tax credits, we could eliminate ABLE. If anyone with any economic sense is making laws...

+1

[MustangGT]

ABLE is nothing more than a creation of the legislature. The correct target to pontifiate about is the current occupants of NE 23rd and Lincoln. I agree that ABLE needs to be reigned in but to eliminate all liquor laws in the state is misguided at best anarchist at worst. Please define "wrong laws"? They only enforce what the legislature gives them.

Spartan this is not directed at you but FAR TOO MANY FOLKS believe that the agencies write the laws they enforce. For those misguided folks they do not.

[Spartan]

Mustang, I totally agree. Don't blame ABLE, they're just doing the jobs that we told them. Blame ourselves for our anti-everything culture, and blame the absolute nutjobs we keep electing to run our state government..

[Thunder]

Doesn't matter. Still blame ABLE and the agents. They don't have to commit such acts. There are millions of laws, not all of them are enforced. Use common sense. The agents failed.

[Rover]

If the laws on the books are confusing or wrong, work to get them changed. Don't threaten to kill the agents (literally or figuratively).

This argument reminds me of trying to compete in places like China, the Middle East and other third world or developing countries. We build equipment here that must be UL/ETL compliant as well as adhere to strict performance standards measured by associations and authorities. And our plants must be controlled to be safe. Etc., etc., etc. All these things protect the consumer and assure them they get safe products that work as advertised. All this costs extra money to comply. If we fail at any of those things, we get sued mercilessly. When we compete with many foreign products overseas they are not held to the same standards and their factories are not held to the same standards. Guess what....they can sell for less and provide crap products.

When there are standards in place ALL establishments must follow them whether they have wheels or a concrete floor. To ignore safety or to ignore liquor laws just to be "cool" is not right. You can call it sucking up or whatever because I believe that most standards are there to protect the public, not punish it. The very same people who lobby to ignore the rules will be the first to sue when something goes wrong. I see it happening all the time.

If the violations didn't happen and the agents were wrong, then the vendors need to fight back and make their case. If the laws are wrong, then do away with them for EVERYONE and then support tort reform to eliminate the liability of ALL businesses. Do away with the ABLE commission and allow anyone to do anything..sell to minors, sell at 4 AM, sell out of dirty glasses, ....who cares. But don't have separate rules and let the public decide who to enforce them on based on what is "cool"...whatever that is.

[bluedogok]

ABLE is nothing more than a creation of the legislature. The correct target to pontifiate about is the current occupants of NE 23rd and Lincoln. I agree that ABLE needs to be reigned in but to eliminate all liquor laws in the state is misguided at best anarchist at worst. Please define "wrong laws"? They only enforce what the legislature gives them.

Spartan this is not directed at you but FAR TOO MANY FOLKS believe that the agencies write the laws they enforce. For those misguided folks they do not.

Mustang, I totally agree. Don't blame ABLE, they're just doing the jobs that we told them. Blame ourselves for our anti-everything culture, and blame the absolute nutjobs we keep electing to run our state government..

Sometimes they aren't just "enforcing the laws as written" as so many laws are so poorly written anymore, mainly because they are written by special interests who give them to legislators who pretty much pass them as is. That leaves too many things up to interpretation by the agencies tasked with enforcing these poorly written laws, so you really have the effect of these agencies making up their own rules in accordance with poorly written laws. I know down here that the TABC has been questioned by the legislature and the public over some of their interpretations and enforcement methods. I still don't understand why ABLE and TABC agents carry guns, this isn't Capone's prohibition era Chicago. Also you wouldn't have to get rid of the liquor laws to get rid of the ABLE commission, much of what they do could be folded into the tax commission (since the majority of what alcohol rules are about is revenue) and enforcement could be handled by the numerous other authorities that already exist for law enforcement. Is there any valid reason why ABLE agents should act like police officers?

But yes, the root of the problem lies in City Hall and in the Capitol building at NW 23rd & Lincoln.

[rcjunkie]

I don't think the authorities are wrong. I think the laws and the system is wrong if we can't have an outdoor food alternative to expensive restaurants downtown. That is a wrong.

But it doesn't excuse ABLE's zeal in enforcing the wrong laws, and obviously, they are just doing their job. I think we have seen more than enough examples why this is an organization that needs to be eliminated, especially as it would help us balance the budget by eliminating another bureaucracy we don't need.

Keeping Costco, Trader Joe's, delicious Juenglueng beer, and more out is one thing--killing this outdoor food market is another thing--preventing new bars in Bricktown is another thing--and preventing new bars around Film Row is yet another thing. But all of these things combined are reasons why this bureaucracy needs to go, let alone the fact that everyone is having to cut their budget and risk closure in these tough economic times. How about instead of discontinuing historic building tax credits, we could eliminate ABLE. If anyone with any economic sense is making laws...

We Can have an outdoor food alternative, as soon as they upgrade the electrical distribution service and get the proper permits.