Mayor Cornett acknowledged the disadvantages of sprawl.

[Larry OKC]

... - but for some reason it just doesn't all click together like it does in OKC. Something is missing in Jax and it is hard to put a finger on it. I think it is the massive urban sprawl. I talk with people everyday that live in south Jacksonville and they don't identify with Jacksonville at all - they say they live in places by Mandarin, Julington Creek, Fruit Cove, or Southside as if those are not part of Jacksonville. It is hard to get them to identify with downtown Jax because they live 20 miles from it....

The only part I see about DT that "clicks" right now is Bricktown. Am sure others will disagree but we have the same thing here. People don't identify themselves as OKC residents (except to people who aren't familiar with the Metro). They say they live on Southside, Capital Hill, Mustang, Edmond, Heritage Hills, etc.

[Just the facts]

The only part I see about DT that "clicks" right now is Bricktown. Am sure others will disagree but we have the same thing here. People don't identify themselves as OKC residents (except to people who aren't familiar with the Metro). They say they live on Southside, Capital Hill, Mustang, Edmond, Heritage Hills, etc.

I should have been a little more clear. They might refer to local specific locations when talking to other locals but the ones I am talking about don't acknowledge Jax at all. For example, I was talking with a woman 2 days ago that moved to Jax from Delaware. I asked her how long she lived in Jacksonville. She said she doesn't live in Jacksonville, she lives in Mandarin, and has lived there for 3 years. Mandarin is not a town, Jax is the town.

For example: Where do you live? I live in OKlahoma City. What part of town? Capitol Hill.

not: Where do you live? Capitol Hill. Where is that? South of Oklahoma City.

[Snowman]

I should have been a little more clear. They might refer to local specific locations when talking to other locals but the ones I am talking about don't acknowledge Jax at all. For example, I was talking with a woman 2 days ago that moved to Jax from Delaware. I asked her how long she lived in Jacksonville. She said she doesn't live in Jacksonville, she lives in Mandarin, and has lived there for 3 years. Mandarin is not a town, Jax is the town.

For example: Where do you live? I live in OKlahoma City. What part of town? Capitol Hill.

not: Where do you live? Capitol Hill. Where is that? South of Oklahoma City.

While that may be true for the people who live a fair ways within the city limits like Capitol Hill, people who live in Edmond, Moore, Norman, Yukon, Mustang often still do not when in other major cities and probably a good portion of the people in the border areas will even still not because the chose the area, the city lines just fell where they may.

[Just the facts]

I think you are missing my point and I am not sure I can do a sufficient job trying to make it so let me end with this. Sprawl tends to reduces a persons sense of place and self identity with the urban core. That is the problem here in Jax but I don't get the sense that it is a problem in OKC yet.

[Larry OKC]

But we have the same urban sprawl/identity problem here, been this way for decades...while some will say it is changing, I just don't see OKC metro residents identifying with the "Urban Core". The mayor has spoke of it, but i am not seeing it. the people I encounter don't see it either. Seems the only ones that do see it are those that are DT centric. DT OKC is just as much a foreign locale to most as Norman or Shawnee.

your

not: Where do you live? Capitol Hill. Where is that? South of Oklahoma City.

is exactly what they say.

[ljbab728]

But we have the same urban sprawl/identity problem here, been this way for decades...while some will say it is changing, I just don't see OKC metro residents identifying with the "Urban Core". The mayor has spoke of it, but i am not seeing it. the people I encounter don't see it either. Seems the only ones that do see it are those that are DT centric. DT OKC is just as much a foreign locale to most as Norman or Shawnee.

your

is exactly what they say.

Larry I don't know who "they" is but they must not be people I talk to. I work in Warr Acres but our business and our employees always talk about being in OKC when telling others where we are.

[Larry OKC]

Can only speak from personal experience. In the 20+ years I have lived back in the Metro area...Norman, Capitol Hill, Bethany, NW side (across from Deaconess), have I ever heard anyone that lived or worked in Warr Acres, Bethany, Capitol Hill etc identify themselves as being in OKC.

In other words, it is exactly the response Just the Facts said did NOT happen (Where do you live? Capitol Hill. Where is that? South of Oklahoma City.)

Even within the City, people identify with the "district" they are in more than the City itself (Arts, Deep Deuce, Paseo, Midtown etc etc)

[ljbab728]

Can only speak from personal experience. In the 20+ years I have lived back in the Metro area...Norman, Capitol Hill, Bethany, NW side (across from Deaconess), have I ever heard anyone that lived or worked in Warr Acres, Bethany, Capitol Hill etc identify themselves as being in OKC.

In other words, it is exactly the response Just the Facts said did NOT happen (Where do you live? Capitol Hill. Where is that? South of Oklahoma City.)

I lived in Mustang for many years before moving to OKC. When talking to people from this area I generally said I was from Mustang. However, when I talked to anyone out of the area, I always said OKC.

[Larry OKC]

ljbab728: I agree with that, when talking to people that don't know the area (like if you are on vacation in Vegas or something, you might indeed say OKC rather than Warr Acres), just so you don't have to explain it (conversational shorthand). I am not disputing that at all. What Just the Facts was saying was something different. Why would your business & employees tell people the wrong location of your business? That I don't understand.

[ljbab728]

ljbab728: I agree with that, when talking to people that don't know the area (like if you are on vacation in Vegas or something, you might indeed say OKC rather than Warr Acres), just so you don't have to explain it (conversational shorthand). I am not disputing that at all. What Just the Facts was saying was something different. Why would your business & employees tell people the wrong location of your business? That I don't understand.

Because being in Warr Acres has nothing to do with our business. People don't relate to Warr Acres unless they live in the immediate area but they do relate to OKC. All of our mail is addressed to OKC instead of Warr Acres and it arrives just fine. We deal with customers all over the country who would have no idea what Warr Acres is.

[Larry OKC]

We are in agreement. Again, that goes back to the out of area example. If your customer is out of state that makes sense. You are going to mention the largest thing that person is going to relate to. However if you are giving a customer directions and they ask where you are at, are you going to say OKC? Nope, you are going to give them an address and the closest main intersection. You might not mention a city at all in that context.

We have a failure to communicate. We seem to all be talking past each other. So i will let it go on my end.

[Just the facts]

It just hit me, maybe I know why now. Many years ago (late 1960s) Jax was its own city surrounded by unincorporated suburbs and 5 incorporated towns. Then Duval County and Jacksonville merged and all the suburbs got absorbed in to the City of Jacksonville. It would be like OKC expanding to include Norman, Moore, Del City, Midwest City, Yukon, etc... It would take a long time before someone in Norman considered downtown OKC to be 'their' downtown. They would identify with Norman for probably the rest of their life. In fact, some of places that were incorporated towns pre-merger later voted to secede from Jacksonville and form their own towns again.

In one day Jacksonville went from 39 sq miles to 840 sq miles.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2...d-jacksonville