OKC/Will Rogers Air Service Discussion 2011

[SkyWestOKC]

And some discouraging news....from the latest schedule updates.

Delta ends mainline effective Jan-Feb. Most likely an error from the schedule extension. 5-6 months out, will probably be corrected. If not, seasonal adjustment with mainline returning for the Spring.

United/Continental reduce Dec-Jan flights to OKC by 10 flights.....23 to 13. Probably an error, as key routes to hubs were cut to a minimum. For example, DEN would only have 2 ERJ flights per day and no mainline. I think this is an error that will be caught by next week.

[venture]

Big thing with UA/CO...they are still juggling operations between certificates and I don't think they ever update one system's schedule at the same time as the other. So I really wouldn't read much into it at all.

[ljbab728]

Big thing with UA/CO...they are still juggling operations between certificates and I don't think they ever update one system's schedule at the same time as the other. So I really wouldn't read much into it at all.

I agree. The United - Continental merger hasn't gone nearly as smoothly as the Delta - Northwest merger did.

[SkyWestOKC]

The majority of the cuts came from the UA cert. side. Plus the changes actually are visible on both reservation systems.

[brianinok]

Question for some of you airline gurus: What do the airlines do with all the planes during down times? Just park them? What about the crews that operate them?

Take for instance Delta/Atlanta. We have had 2 mainline flights per day, but for a couple months we may go down to 0 mainline flights. Presumably other similarly serviced cities on Delta/Atlanta will go down some mainline flights during the down period. As an example, if OKC, Tulsa, Omaha, Little Rock, Austin, etc. (just examples) all lose on average 2 mainline flights per day, that adds up to a lot of jets parked in Atlanta.

[ljbab728]

Question for some of you airline gurus: What do the airlines do with all the planes during down times? Just park them? What about the crews that operate them?

Take for instance Delta/Atlanta. We have had 2 mainline flights per day, but for a couple months we may go down to 0 mainline flights. Presumably other similarly serviced cities on Delta/Atlanta will go down some mainline flights during the down period. As an example, if OKC, Tulsa, Omaha, Little Rock, Austin, etc. (just examples) all lose on average 2 mainline flights per day, that adds up to a lot of jets parked in Atlanta.

brian, I promise you the airlines don't just leave profitable jets sitting parked in Atlanta. When they move them out of one market they have other places to put them or they could phase out or sell some of them.

[venture]

Question for some of you airline gurus: What do the airlines do with all the planes during down times? Just park them? What about the crews that operate them?

Take for instance Delta/Atlanta. We have had 2 mainline flights per day, but for a couple months we may go down to 0 mainline flights. Presumably other similarly serviced cities on Delta/Atlanta will go down some mainline flights during the down period. As an example, if OKC, Tulsa, Omaha, Little Rock, Austin, etc. (just examples) all lose on average 2 mainline flights per day, that adds up to a lot of jets parked in Atlanta.

Depends on the situation. A pull down here can allow for them to increase capacity where seasonably it is higher during that time. They also have the ability to schedule maintenance during such down periods to where an aircraft won't be on the ground long - if it can help it. Some exceptions to the rule of course. Allegiant, a very profitable low fare airline/travel company, will park planes on Tuesdays to get maintenance done across its fleet (for the most part). However, they also own the planes out right - they pay cash for everything - and this keeps their costs down. They don't have to worry about monthly leases that need to get paid and if things slow down, they'll just park the aircraft in Vegas for a bit.

Delta specifically though can be a combination of the above and also using the pull back in a few markets to cover the retirement of the original DC-9s that are still operating from Northwest.

[damonsmuz]

I know Allegiant tends to focus on smaller cities for their service, but with 757's entering the company soon and the possibility of them going to Hawaii, what are the odds that we could see a flight or 2 a week during the summer season here? Could OKC handle something like this? For some reason I don't see the 757s being used to fly to towns like Abilene Texas or places like that.

[venture]

I know Allegiant tends to focus on smaller cities for their service, but with 757's entering the company soon and the possibility of them going to Hawaii, what are the odds that we could see a flight or 2 a week during the summer season here? Could OKC handle something like this? For some reason I don't see the 757s being used to fly to towns like Abilene Texas or places like that.

They won't touch OKC right now with a ten foot pole because of Southwest. I think they would have a decent chance at making Florida work out of here, simply because of them being a well rounded travel company - not just an airline. However, they have a model that works great serving other small and medium cities to vacation hot spots and filling 80-95% of the plane.

It is pretty strange to see this huge empty spot in Oklahoma and most of Texas for them. Maybe some day.

[OUman]

Allegiant is a niche airline-it makes money by flying between the vacation destinations and cities that don't have nonstops to/from those destinations, but have enough demand to profitably fill an MD 82/83. At the same time, these cities also don't have very many options with other airlines. It also doesn't compete directly with Southwest or other carriers on many routes-you'll find many cities served especially in the Rockies in MT. and ID. where Southwest avoids, but those which are served quite generously by Allegiant.

[SkyWestOKC]

On the www.flyokc.com website, they have an ad for the new OKC-SFO service on UA on the homepage. I know for a fact they are working on ads to be displayed and distributed by the chamber of commerce and dept. of airports since UA does qualify for the advertising assistance since it is a new route to a coastal city.

[SkyWestOKC]

Also would like to mention that Atlantic is doing real well at OKC. Their ramp is full of bizjets most days, mostly because of their contract with CHK. They recently expanded their parking lot, and is still full most days.

[ljbab728]

On the www.flyokc.com website, they have an ad for the new OKC-SFO service on UA on the homepage. I know for a fact they are working on ads to be displayed and distributed by the chamber of commerce and dept. of airports since UA does qualify for the advertising assistance since it is a new route to a coastal city.

I'm already seeing more interest in this route than I expected from both local traffic and connection possibilities. I think it's going to do well.

[SkyWestOKC]

It seems to be following a very similar pattern that AA's LAX-OKC flight did when it was about to start. Seats are not quite falling off the shelves, they are selling though. And there are some strong days and then some very weak days. Front of the airplane seems to be selling "OK". As this route matures, and hopefully it matures as quickly as AA's LAX-OKC did and it will go to 2x. It has potential to go 2x.

[BG918]

It seems to be following a very similar pattern that AA's LAX-OKC flight did when it was about to start. Seats are not quite falling off the shelves, they are selling though. And there are some strong days and then some very weak days. Front of the airplane seems to be selling "OK". As this route matures, and hopefully it matures as quickly as AA's LAX-OKC did and it will go to 2x. It has potential to go 2x.

OKC-SFO was a route that has been desired for a long time. Now if we could just get jetBlue to start non-stops from OKC to JFK.

[SkyWestOKC]

jetBlue's focus seems to be in the Carribean for the time being. No new domestic cities in 2011. The airport has been having meetings with jetBlue, though. But meetings are just that....doesn't mean they are really "talking."

In November we gain a mainline flight on United to Denver. It is off and on depending on the days but should average to 2 mainline trips per day to Denver. That 2nd mainline flight is a direct flight to LAX, so they might be trying to add some seats to fight AA a little bit. It is direct though, so not a "non-stop".

The "December Anomaly" is still in the schedule with a bare bones schedule to all of United's destinations from OKC for the first 2 weeks of December. This will most likely be corrected though as December gets closer.

[phl1331]

Surpised we didn't see Southwest add an OKC - ATL flight.

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...february-2012/

[ljbab728]

Surpised we didn't see Southwest add an OKC - ATL flight.

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...february-2012/

It's not that surprising given that they basically just took over Airtran's routes. The only new nonstop destination is Austin. It might be something they could consider later, however, depending on demand.

[venture]

We won't see ATL service on WN until the integration is complete. So maybe 2013.

[ljbab728]

We won't see ATL service on WN until the integration is complete. So maybe 2013.

I've already been seeing some much lower fares between OKC and ATL on DL so the WN effect is already occuring.

[OUman]

It's not that surprising given that they basically just took over Airtran's routes. The only new nonstop destination is Austin. It might be something they could consider later, however, depending on demand.

So Air Tran (FL) will just drop all its service on these routes? I thought the WN service was on top of what FL already offers, not a complete replacement since WN's frequencies are just 2-3 daily (total of 15 daily).

[venture]

I've already been seeing some much lower fares between OKC and ATL on DL so the WN effect is already occuring.

The Southwest effect has been dead for years. On average they are higher in price than most other airlines. Could DL be preemptively lowering fares, sure. However, I doubt we'll see Southwest bring a consistent lowering of the fares on the route. If anything, the dip will end and things will go back up and level off if/when WN starts service on the route.

So Air Tran (FL) will just drop all its service on these routes? I thought the WN service was on top of what FL already offers, not a complete replacement since WN's frequencies are just 2-3 daily (total of 15 daily).

I'm with you on the belief that these are just additions to what FL is currently offering. It will be awhile until the code share will start and flights will be marketed jointly.

[MustangGT]

The Southwest effect has been dead for years. On average they are higher in price than most other airlines.

As much as I like and frequently fly SW they are just another money grubbing major carrier. Altruism about SW needs to go the way of the Dodo bird.

[khook]

venture I agree with you the last six or seven flights I've taken over the past year the quote "main line carriers" have had better fares than SW. They are not the discount carrier they once were but have become a main line carrier themselves and are acting as such.

[ljbab728]

The Southwest effect has been dead for years. On average they are higher in price than most other airlines. Could DL be preemptively lowering fares, sure. However, I doubt we'll see Southwest bring a consistent lowering of the fares on the route. If anything, the dip will end and things will go back up and level off if/when WN starts service on the route.

Venture, I deal with airfares every day. I understand what you're saying about WN not being the cheapest now in many cases. However, they do still impact pricing in new areas they move into. DL fares to Atlanta have been outrageous for years, especially for business travelers. Many prefer connections over convenience to save hundreds of dollars.