Could OKC be ready for Sonics?

[Intrepid]

http://www.newsok.com/article/175608...te=sports/main

Could OKC be ready for Sonics?

By Andrew Gilman
The Oklahoman

The Sonics may be looking for a new home.
And Clay Bennett said Oklahoma could step up.

In an interview before Wednesday’s game with Fox Sports Northwest that aired in Seattle, Bennett, an Oklahoma City businessman who is part of the investment group that helped bring the Hornets to Oklahoma City, said he would be surprised if Seattle couldn’t retain the team. But Oklahoma City is ready, he said.

Also, in an interview with the Seattle Times on Tuesday, Bennett said he has not been contacted by anyone representing the Sonics. However, if he was contacted, Bennett said “We’d be very interested in those discussions and would pursue them vigorously.”

That’s because the Hornets and their situation in Oklahoma City is in flux. The Hornets will play 35 games in Oklahoma City next season, but beyond that, nothing is certain.

Meanwhile, the Sonics are at odds with Seattle over a very costly lease which is in place until 2010. Sonics owner Howard Schultz said last week that he would be forced to sell or move the team if the state legislature doesn’t approve a proposed $200 million for upgrades to KeyArena. The legislative session ends March 9. A vote for a $200 million to KeyArena in 2004 failed.

The Sonics are hoping for a deal that is similar to the Seahawks and the Mariners, the other two pro franchises in the city. Both of those stadiums, which were built after the Sonics’ KeyArena, were paid for through visitor taxes. The Sonics say that tax also could be used to renovate KeyArena.

Also, because of the newer Seattle stadiums for the Mariners and the Seahawks, the Sonics are having a hard time enticing people to fill their suites, which are regularly about one-third full for each game. The Sonics say they have lost $60 million in the past four years. They are paying $800,000 annually in rent to the city for the use of KeyArena and have to share in the revenues with the city for concessions, parking and premium seating. The Sonics get to keep the money for suite sales.

Oklahoma City mayor Mick Cornett said no one has contacted him about the possible movement of Seattle’s NBA team, although Cornett said he has done numerous interviews with Seattle media in the past month.

“You would think if they were truly interested in Oklahoma City, they would call and kind of check the temperature here,” Cornett said. “My contact is with (NBA commissioner) David Stern and (Hornet owner) George Shinn. I’m not going into anything without letting them know about it.”

Said Bennett in the interview with the Seattle Times: “If the Hornets go back to New Orleans, I expect we’ll get a franchise. There haven’t been any promises made, but there’s been a lot of congratulations offered to us. This is a bona fide marketplace for the NBA. We’ve proven that.”

[Midtowner]

It looks like if the Hornets move back that OKC will at least be valuable to the NBA as a 'threat.' In other words, now the league can tell owners and cities "Do as I say or OKC is where the team will be playing next season."

I'm afraid that it's possible that we might be more valuable as a threat than we would be if we actually had a team.

[windowphobe]

Well, you know, it's not just the Sonics; we could theoretically (at least, based on owners' irritation with their leases and/or facilities) end up with the Kings or the Hawks or the Magic.

And leverage works both ways: the NBA, were it so inclined, could tell the malcontents to shut up, Oklahoma City already has 85.4 percent (35/41) of a team.

[Midtowner]

window -- I fully expect several years of being 'leverage' before there's a team here. Frankly, the NBA will have a tough time making similar threats as they have with L.A. and Las Vegas. OKC is a proposition which will have other cities forking the bucks over for security assuming that the Hornets leave.

[HOT ROD]

Being from Seattle, I think there is a STRONG possibility that the Seattle Supersonics could indeed change their moniker to .. Oklahoma City Sonics.

Here in Seattle, we have the NBA's smallest arena and this was AFTER an expansion back in the late 1990's. Most people here like the team but are tired of false hopes for making a championship much less the playoffs.

There is much more fan support for the Seattle Mariners (MLB) and (especially of late) the Seattle Seahawks (NFL). While Seattle (and the surrounding Vancouver and Portland) can support 3-teams in the city; support for the Sonics is very lacking. The facility sucks, combine that with a poor team ... and you guessed it - the owner is looking for options.

ROADBLOCK FOR OKC

If it is true that the Hornets should return to NO (I hope not), then OKC would be the front runner for a team looking to relocate. I am sure the Sonics would be the first team, given our dire situation.

BUT a roadblock does exist. It is called, Bellevue Washington. Bellevue is our upper class and largest suburb directly East of Seattle (the other side of Lake Wa). It is the HUB of the so-called Eastside and is the third largest CBD (after Tacoma's) in the Seattle Region and the fourth largest city in the state [think of Nichols Hills times 30]. Bellevue is looking for identity and is currently under a building boom of sorts.

It has been discussed that, well - if Seattle doesnt expand Key Arena (again) or build a new arena (the team's preference) then maybe Bellevue could "save the team", keeping it in this region while at the same time giving Bellevue much needed pride/bragging rights, etc.

Bellevue just opened their Bellevue Art Museum and a host of other "big city" attractions downtown. Should the business community get enough momentum - then Bellevue would lure the Sonics for sure!

But I think this is unlikely, as a new stadium in Bellevue would be astronomical in cost - and state/local tax help is very very unlikely (especially since the state will not up Key Arena again, nor will it build the Sonics a new stadium).

One other threat to OKC is Tacoma. They already have the Tacoma dome and hosted the Sonics during the two seasons Key Arena was under "expansion." While the dome has hosted the team and could do so easily, it just does not have the NBA specs that make it attractive for most owners. Sure, you could pack the seats and give Tacoma recognition - but would you make $$$? NO

I personally think Seattle would make more profit being a 2-league city given the immense support for the Mariners and the new found base for the Seahawks. If the Sonics make the playoffs, then there might be a push for the state to do something or a public referendum. UNLIKELY at best!

...

My prediction; "Oklahoma City will Keep the Hornets!" but the Sonics will move and should OKC not retain the Hornets - OKC WILL GET THE SONICS!!!

[Midtowner]

And of course, the "Sonics" would have no problem finding their biggest sponsor

[Patrick]

Oooooo. Does that mean Sonic takes over the concessions at the Ford Center too? I'd be all for that. Can't beat those Sonic Coneys and Cherry Limeades!

[HOT ROD]

that would be way cool!

[mranderson]

They could drop the "Super" in the name and change their colors to red, yellow, white and black and use the Sonic Drive In logo. THAT would be sposorship.

[Doug Loudenback]

Personal opinion only, but my expectation is that the Hornets will return to NOLA after next year.

Lots of things can happen between now and then ... but ... as for now ... and aside from the pragmatic and empirical statistics that any of us can easily put together (I'll elaborate, if needed), Stern's comments have been very steadfast about the general intention for the Hornets to return to NOLA, barring another Katrina kind of thing.

So, barring unforseen developments, we'll most probably not be enjoying the Hornets in Oklahoma City after the 2006-07 season, which is a sad thing as far as I'm concerned. But, I think that it is not being realistic to have any other expectation ... barring unforseen developments.

Whether, upon return to NOLA, the Hornets continue their unfettered chain there in NOT being successful, and at the end of their NOLA contract wanting to go elsewhere ... or if in the meantime some some other NBA city (e.g., Seattle) wants to relocate elsewhere ... those things remain to be seen.

My main hope is that, in this interim "zone" that Oklahoma City will not do something stupid to prevent an NBA team, Hornets or other, from locating here ... such "stupid" things being an opting for an NHL team ... or Mary Fallin's inititive for the Marlins to locate here ... either of which, IMO, would most probably be dismal failures.

If OKC is to have a successful major league team, I am completely convinced that the sport would be basketball, and nothing else. But, of course, that's just my opinion.

[BDP]

I would barf if the players became a walking endorsement for Sonic. I wouldn't mind if Sonic did all the tie-ins they wanted, but having them wear Sonic Colors and changing their name for Sonic would be embarrassing.

[HOT ROD]

It was announced today in the Seattle media that the Seattle Supersonics are for SALE! http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/

They desire $200M in improvements to Key Arena or a NEW arena (which is their preference) to remain in Seattle and thus far we have not supported their requests.

From our position (Seattle residents/taxpayers), Key Arena was upgraded less than 10 years ago (I dont remember exactly when, but it was 1998 or so - and the team temporarily played in Tacoma during the renovation). The "renovation" turned the THEN Seattle Coloseum (roughly 11500 seats) into Key Arena (lowered floor, raised roof; roughly 14000 seats). Key is still the smallest arena (or one of them) in the NBA and the Sonics want the revenue generation of other teams - like the Oklahoma City/New Orleans Hornets. The lease with Key Arena expires in 2010.

From the Seattle Times article

Sonics officials previously have held discussions with civic leaders in Bellevue about building an arena there. Other cities trying to lure NBA teams include Oklahoma City and Kansas City, Mo.

Just another option for Oklahoma City, you WILL have an NBA team!!

[Patrick]

I hate to say this for you Hot Rod, but I think Clay Bennett and others should purchase the team and move them here.

Hey, George Shinn has had his chance to make a decision. Clay needs to give Shinn an ultimatum to either make a permanent decision or risk losing out on OKC due to the purchase of the Sonics. And, wouldn't it be a sweet deal if Sonic Corp. bought part of the corp. We ought to change the logo and make the Sonic logo the logo for the OKC Sonics.

[BDP]

George Shinn has had his chance to make a decision.

I'm under the impression that it's not really his to make. I think they came up with a hand shake deal to maybe test the NBA and put out some feelers to see if a move to OKC would be supported. Shinn may miss out on OKC, but I think it will have more to do with New Orleans and the political pressure from the NBA than any real wavering on his part.

We ought to change the logo and make the Sonic logo the logo for the OKC Sonics.

Yuck! I can't say I'd be excited about having the team name directly associated with a corporation. I wouldn't mind them playing up the coincidence in their marketing and support of the team, but to make the name and logo a de facto sponsorship would be in poor taste, imo.

[HOT ROD]

I hate to say this for you Hot Rod, but I think Clay Bennett and others should purchase the team and move them here.
Hey, George Shinn has had his chance to make a decision. Clay needs to give Shinn an ultimatum to either make a permanent decision or risk losing out on OKC due to the purchase of the Sonics. And, wouldn't it be a sweet deal if Sonic Corp. bought part of the corp. We ought to change the logo and make the Sonic logo the logo for the OKC Sonics.

Oh, no sweat Patrick. I agree, the team should move.

This is NOT a basketball town anymore (not that it every was post 1998). I totally agree that the Sonics should go to OKC, with SONIC as their top sponsor/part owner.

And NO SONIC labels on the uniforms - but instead some pretty kick a** commercials/promotions. "OKC Super SONICs ....." music and so on.

I say, go for it, as we will NOT give the Sonics anything - heck, we already upgraded the arena and built new ones for the Mariners and Seahawks: better teams with MUCH GREATER fanbase here.

Shall we say, if it isn't Oklahoma City Hornets in 2008, then it is Oklahoma City SuperSonics in <2010!! Im all for it.

[BDP]

And NO SONIC labels on the uniforms - but instead some pretty kick a** commercials/promotions. "OKC Super SONICs ....." music and so on.

Yeah, how about we go the other dirsction with this and have Sonic put the team logo on their stuff. They could put it on all of their large portion items and call them SuperSonics. The car hops could wear jerseys on game days... maybe even have a half time dance team made up of car hops. OK, maybe that's too much, but it would be funny.

[Bobby H]

My main hope is that, in this interim "zone" that Oklahoma City will not do something stupid to prevent an NBA team, Hornets or other, from locating here ... such "stupid" things being an opting for an NHL team ...

Why does it have to be an either/or proposition?

Lots of arenas support both NHL and NBA teams. Madison Square Garden hosts the NY Knicks and NY Rangers. Lots of other examples can be listed.

The Oklahoma City market is more than big enough to support both an NBA and NHL team. The city limits population is around 500,000 and the metro area has close to 1 million. Tulsa is only an hour's drive away and much of the rest of Oklahoma's population is fairly close to OKC. The market can draw on close to 2 million people. Not only is that more than enough for NBA and NHL teams, I would even go so far as to say OKC could actually support an NFL team too.

Our region has been stupidly overlooked, disrespected and (as far as simple business matters go) untapped. I was not surprised the Hornets have done very well on ticket sales in OKC. It's a little stupid for others around the country to be surprised by it. The situation is very simple math.

The Ford Center is a very good facility for NBA games and could do well on supporting a NHL team too. I've been to the Ford Center twice in the last couple weeks (the Nine Inch Nails concert and the Hornets' overtime win against the Golden State Warriors this past Wednesday), and I live way down near Lawton. The Ford Center is every bit as good as any pro-sports arena in the country.

Most Oklahomans don't even speak of getting an NFL team, since that seems like such a long shot pipe dream and seems even more impossible when you add in the inferiority complex many Oklahomans have about this state. Football really matters here as a sport, arguably more so than in a lot of other regions of this country. The real trick in gaining a NFL team is the stadium cost. That's the bitter pill most residents don't want to swallow -especially if they're paying a tax bill for an enterprise that charges extremely high prices that exclude all but the most deep pocketed of customers. That's why Los Angeles still doesn't have a NFL team. With as much oil money is coming back into our region, I think there are certain private/corporate avenues of approach that would be extremely more appropriate on financing the cost of building a football stadium.

Late Edit:
If Seattle were to relocate the Supersonics in OKC, I would be very much against sticking the Sonic logo on their uniforms, or making the NBA team's logo the Sonic logo. That would be so cheezy I would want to vomit. Very bad taste. The two entities need to maintain separate identities. There's no crime in Sonic sponsoring the Supersonics. But blurring the line on logo use would be a very bad move.

[BDP]

NBA and MHL are attendance driven products. The NFL is a TV ratings driven products. OKC could do it, but it would be at the very bottom in revenue generation if it did. Since a larger portion of revenue comes from attendance in the NBA and NHL, we could better compete with others in the league on the revenue front.

I didn't mean to suggest that Sonic should use the team logo as their logo, but just put the team logo on their mechandise in addition to there own as a cross promotion tie in. That's very common in the fast food world.

[HOT ROD]

actually Bobby H.

OKC's city limits are 540,000 and its CMetroArea is 1.3M; way higher than your statement. The market draw is 5M [Oklahoma 3.56M, S. KS 0.5M, W. AR 0.3M, W. TX 0.4M] and that is conservative.

Still, I think OKC should opt for NBA (first), then explore other leagues. Let one be successful, let the city get used to the major leagues. Then as salaries increase through additional business relocations from the press of the teams, we could get another team.

I would say OKC should shoot for the following:

NBA - immediately, should the Hornets return to NO in 2008.
NFL - after getting the NBA, this is the next league that would be hugely successful in OKC!! The city would need to build a stadium - which could be part of MAPS III.
MLS - would go along with NFL provided a stadium. Competition from Tulsa on this one tho, as this is probably their ONLY shot at a major league team.
AFL - OKC could definitely go after the AFL again and should be successful since the season does not coincide with the NBA (not too much).
NHL - you would think this league would be above the NFL but Im not so sure it would be successful given the comp with the NBA. Once OKC's metro reaches 2M, we could talk about it - but the leagues follow schedules too closely; i dont think it would work in the short run.
MLB - I just dont think it would work here.

So, NBA in OKC is a given. But I think the next league should be football (whether NFL and/or AFL to start). OK is a football haven and since there would be a limited number of games, the schedules could be made so they dont coincide with the OU powerhouse but compliment it. But I think this is 5 years down the road after securing the NBA permanently, which would mean 2012 at the earliest.

One thing is for sure, Im glad OKC is in the spotlight on major league sports. We are a major league city, no question!!! 2+ league??? Well, give us 5 years.

[HOT ROD]

Late Edit:
If Seattle were to relocate the Supersonics in OKC, I would be very much against sticking the Sonic logo on their uniforms, or making the NBA team's logo the Sonic logo. That would be so cheezy I would want to vomit. Very bad taste. The two entities need to maintain separate identities. There's no crime in Sonic sponsoring the Supersonics. But blurring the line on logo use would be a very bad move.

I agree.

I think our fellow posters were being facetious tho, as Im sure they do not want to have that sort of cheesy sponsorship, even if it is by a reputable OKC based company.

[Bobby H]

OKC's city limits are 540,000 and its CMetroArea is 1.3M; way higher than your statement. The market draw is 5M [Oklahoma 3.56M, S. KS 0.5M, W. AR 0.3M, W. TX 0.4M] and that is conservative.

Actually, I think that's pretty generous. I don't see lots of people regularly driving from as far away as Kansas, Arkansas or Texas to watch a pro sports game in Oklahoma City unless there is some big significance to it. That especially goes for North Texas when the DFW area has teams in just about every organized professional sports league in the United States.

What I'm talking about is realistic population numbers, and even there the Oklahoma City market is pretty impressive. Maybe I'm off a bit on the actual OKC city limits and metro population, but I'm in the ballpark. Tulsa is only an hour's drive away and adds another million residents into the pool. Other smaller cities and towns like Lawton, Stillwater, Duncan, Enid, Shawnee, Weatherford and more pile on at least a few hundred thousand more into the customer pool.

The NFL is a TV ratings driven products. OKC could do it, but it would be at the very bottom in revenue generation if it did.

I'm not so sure about that. Oklahoma's I-44 corridor boasts more population than a number of existing NFL markets. The biggest road block against Oklahoma getting an NFL team is stadium cost. Taxpayers won't go for it. The Dallas Cowboys organization probably would be against Oklahoma having its own NFL team, claiming this state as part of their market territory. As it stands, the OU and OSU college football teams sort of serve the purpose of "pro football" in Oklahoma.

I don't see the NFL coming to Oklahoma City anytime soon. Perhaps after a decade if Oklahoma City has seen some momentous growth (and the potential is there) then maybe something will happen. Right now the politics are decidedly against it. But our state's culture could very definitely support an NFL team very very well.

I would say OKC should shoot for the following:
NBA - immediately, should the Hornets return to NO in 2008.
(remainder of list snipped)

Well, Oklahoma City needs to just take advantage of whatever opportunities present themselves. The city isn't going to have any luxury of choosing the order of sports organizations coming to town.

It seems pretty obvious the NBA will be first in placing a professional sports franchise in Oklahoma City, whether it's a relocated Hornets team, a relocated Supersonics team or a new expansion team.

After that, I think the NHL is the next most obvious arrival. The Ford Center already exists as a great potential venue for hockey. The main problem with the NHL is the league's own internal turmoil, not any negative OKC could provide.

I think Major League Soccer could do very well in Oklahoma. Soccer is growing by leaps and bounds in popularity within our state. Oklahoma is a warmer weather state and more accommodating to soccer play for a bigger part of the year. We have a lot more land to spare for building a huge soccer facility.

The NFL and MLB are both long shots due to high stadium costs, politics with other teams and TV issues.

[BDP]

Right now the politics are decidedly against it. But our state's culture could very definitely support an NFL team very very well.

I 100% agree with that. I just wonder if it's enough. I can't pretend to know how it all works, but the TV issue would have to be settled before any NFL team comes here. Yes, they do have some markets with similar size, but I doubt they will be looking to add more small TV markets in the near future. I'm just saying that because of our TV market size, not our capability for support, we wouldn't be high on any NFL list like we will be for NBA or NHL.

In the end, I'd rather do 1 right than 3 wrong. Obviously, all sports teams have their down years, which will cause support to wane a bit. I think this is exacerbated in multi-franchise cities where fans can play fair weather and run to the team that's doing well. Throw in our smaller market size and that's a big problem. Can we support more than one successful major league franchise? Yes, but can we support more than one mediocre franchise? I doubt it. I'd much rather see us concentrate on one team, preferably the NBA, that we live and die with, supporting through thick and thin. I want us to be the best fans when we do get a team, and I don't know if we can be the best at supporting more than one at this point.

[HOT ROD]

I agree BDP. Let's support our NBA team now.

We can review and discuss expansion in another league in 5 years - thats only 2012, not too far away!!!

[mranderson]

Today I did a ride along with an officer from the Oklahoma City Police who works Hornets games. Here is what he told me about the future of the NBA in Oklahoma City.

It is a lock. Here is how.

Oklahoma City is in negotiations with the Seattle Sonics and the Orlando Magic to relocate to the Ford Center. The new team may be here next season.

The contract with the Hornets second season is verbal and has a clause that says if a team moves here permanantly, that team has first choice of game nights.

He said Sonic wanted to buy the naming rights to the Ford Center, however, the city would not let them have the concessions. Sonic will try to buy the rights from Ford and rename the arena either Sonic Arena or Sonic Center. The marketing potential is the reason.

So. In short. The NBA is here to stay... We just might have to wait a year or two.

[Patrick]

I doubt it will be next year, as the Hornets are already selling season tickets here, but I can fully see the Sonics being here the following year. Of course, that won't be announced for awhile, if they're going to be spending another season in Seattle.
Stern has made it clear that he wants the Sonic out of Seattle, since he says Seattle doesn't support the team. I think it would be a good fit for OKC, and I'd even like to see Sonic Corporation purchase a portion of the team.

I doubt the Oklahoma Ford Dealers will sell out their naming rights for the Ford Center. They got one heck of a deal. They paid minor league prices for an NBA arena. Of course, they may want to take the profits and run with it. Sonic would have to put up bigger bucks for naming rights for an NBA arena.

Still, if we could keep the Hornets in OKC, I'd prefer that since we've all grown in love with them.