General Urban Development

[Pete]

On closer analysis, I thought it was (3) 3.3 acre parcels but it seems to just be one.

Still, lots of room to add buildings and still be able to park.

[metro]

It's called the Physicians and Surgeons Building.

11 stories, 95,700 square feet.

12 if you found mechanical

[metro]

On closer analysis, I thought it was (3) 3.3 acre parcels but it seems to just be one.

Still, lots of room to add buildings and still be able to park.

Doubt it will happen, the owners are cheap Russians from Norman, they own several properties around the metro, but I don't see them modernizing their existing property, let alone building new. They are too cheap to put a bike rack out front after lots of hounding about installing one for about $150

[Just the facts]

Doubt it will happen, the owners are cheap Russians from Norman, they own several properties around the metro, but I don't see them modernizing their existing property, let alone building new. They are too cheap to put a bike rack out front after lots of hounding about installing one for about $150

I don't know about, they spent what appears to be about $35 on landscaping.

[mcca7596]

I don't know about, they spent what appears to be about $35 on landscaping.

lol

Metro, Would they allow the workers to get together and just buy a bike rack? Or do they not even want one on the property period?

[Thunder]

I was in that building earlier this year....with mom....I took her there....with my time and gas.

[UnFrSaKn]

http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2009/01/civic-center.html

Doug takes care of all the work. Scroll down for the fate of the old courthouse. I actually spent some time yesterday looking at a bunch of old photos trying to orient myself to what direction it faced. All I should have done was re-read Doug's blog... Some day I'll learn.




1929

[UnFrSaKn]

Oh how I weep for the OKC of old...

That's why you have to treat what historical buildings that are left like your 100 year old grandfather. Some consider "historical" only as "historical things happened there". Anything that's in a black and white photo and before my time is considered historical to me. A lot of people probably just don't know where to go to find out about the history of the city. Like me, all it took was seeing images of what used to be here to get me interested. Doug's blog in particular. I found his blog via OKCTalk by searching for "new skyscrapers okc" and found this forum. RetroMetroOKC is about the only group I know of that has a modern looking website and meets regularly and has a movement going. Imagine if they got one single local ad on television, what that would do. If junk like Fowler Honda and your local family-owned business can get on tv, I don't see why RetroMetro couldn't. There's enough talent at NewOK for Steve to perhaps make that happen in the future some day.

I didn't post the new and old photos I have of the courthouse because I didn't want this to go way off topic. But... you have to picture yourself on this forum as if you're on a brightly lit stage. Everything that's posted here is public and there's an untold amount of unique new visitors and "lurking members" that only view but never post. I was one of those members for a long time myself. It's like when you're on stage you can see a multitude of people out there but you can't make out who they are because of the lights. Most people don't feel like scrolling through pages of text so it doesn't hurt to bring up things or link to websites most regular visitors here all know.

[UnFrSaKn]

...or I could have looked at this too.

[Steve]

The courthouse was actually replaced by the old Holiday Inn, which is now the character institute place.

[Doug Loudenback]

Well, kind of. As is shown by the photos that Will posted above, also shown below, the courthouse was located as shown, which is south of where the old Holiday Inn mainly sits, with perhaps a little overlap around the alley.





Compare ...

[Urbanized]

This comment goes against the grain of what I usually say, but seeing that photo makes me wonder what was at the Bus Station's location before it was built, and also if there was an uproar about the modern structure being built at the time...

Hey, they tore down the old Waldorf-Astoria to make way for the Empire State Building. Sometimes it's OK to be bummed about losing the old place and still enthusiastic about what replaces it.

[BDP]

Sometimes it's OK to be bummed about losing the old place and still enthusiastic about what replaces it.

Except in our case where, with all the empty space and surface parking, you could have both the old and new with little attrition.

[Urbanized]

Completely agree, though in regard to the discussion that comment pertained to, the bus station was built long before OKC's urban renewal period.

[UnFrSaKn]

I didn't want to post the new photos I found but I guess I will now...it's getting off topic.





The courthouse would have fit directly in front of the Holiday Inn and alongside the west side of the parking garage.

[Just the facts]

Except in our case where, with all the empty space and surface parking, you could have both the old and new with little attrition.

This is why I am not bothered by the canal corner development. Step 1 is getting rid of all the available land. Step 2 will be replacing low density structures with high density developments.

[UnFrSaKn]

Would anyone even know how to build something like this in today's age?


Construction


1905








1905






North entrance


1918

[Just the facts]

Would anyone even know how to build something like this in today's age?

Nope. Have you seen the crap they tried to pass off as the new courthouse and police headquarters?

[Doug Loudenback]

Building it to be fireproof would be a good start:

[ljbab728]

Would anyone even know how to build something like this in today's age?

Walt Disney?

[Spartan]

Hey, they tore down the old Waldorf-Astoria to make way for the Empire State Building. Sometimes it's OK to be bummed about losing the old place and still enthusiastic about what replaces it.

Unfortunately, we don't even have a building like that left to be torn down... going back to Will's point about our emotional attachment to what little we have left of the great, urban city OKC once was. Not to chide you or anything urbanized, I know you care about old buildings as much as all of us..if not more, with your background in AA and BT...

[kevinpate]

Nope. Have you seen the crap they tried to pass off as the new courthouse and police headquarters?

Well, in fairness to them, it is a municipal court building, and those generally don't end up on the magnificent end of the spectrum.
(of course, most state court bldgs. erected in the past 30 years haven't been much to look at either.)

[BDP]

Step 1 is getting rid of all the available land. Step 2 will be replacing low density structures with high density developments.

I was referring to when we actually tear down structures to build next to empty land, which is where the Preftakes block seems to be heading. The canal corner is simply taking empty space on a prime lot and paving over most of it. That just makes it so that if density happens, it will happen elsewhere, which is a shame, because bricktown is closer to density than most of the city. Bricktown shouldn't have to struggle for density, developers should WANT to add density at this point.

If we are really willing to wait for all the empty space to be paved over before the city even has the potential for density, then we will be waiting for a VERY long time, especially when noone seems interested in developing the empty space we have and instead chooses to tear down buildings next to empty space for developments, or even tear down buildings to create MORE empty space.

[Just the facts]

I was referring to when we actually tear down structures to build next to empty land, which is where the Preftakes block seems to be heading.

High density growth doesn't occur in a uniform patter though. It radiates from a single point/line and that point/line can be MBG, the canal, Automobile Alley, etc. In the Preftakes case the point of focus is MBG. If he is planning on high density development (one or more high rises) then it would make sense that he would convert a middle density development to superhigh density before he leap frogged to replacing a no-density open space. Only if he was planning to duplicate what is already on his block would it then make sense to develop near by vacant land instead. In other words, the Preftakes block (and other land around MBG - i.e. Stage Center and Cox site) are ready for step 2.

[Urbanized]

Unfortunately, we don't even have a building like that left to be torn down... going back to Will's point about our emotional attachment to what little we have left of the great, urban city OKC once was. Not to chide you or anything urbanized, I know you care about old buildings as much as all of us..if not more, with your background in AA and BT...

Again, my comment was specifically addressing the bus station and David Pollard's comment that showed conflicting feelings regarding the cool old bus station and whatever it must have replaced at some point. Although the station probably required the demo of some quality building(s), it was done during a time when downtown was much more dense and there may have been few choices but to tear something down to build it, much as the construction of the ESB required demolitions in the very dense Midtown Manhattan. A higher and better use makes some demos more palatable.

But we've moved so far away from that kind of density that - as others have pointed out - there are RARELY overwhelmingly good reasons for teardown in OKC vs. building on empty lots.