Next Boom Town

[bluedogok]

Bluedog, that makes sense, and I'm aware that SA has a lot of construction of course. The canal extension seemed interesting, although it didn't seem like so much a catalyst for development as I've seen in other cities that might qualify as upcoming boom towns. I always get the sense that SA is kinda stuck in the 90s and early 00s, at least in terms of trends.

There is no doubt "design wise" that San Antonio isn't Austin, DFW or Houston and they are still much more conservative, I think a bunch of that is because the military roots of what grew San Antonio to begin with. We are redoing a vacant multi-story building in Downtown San Antonio and have had to "tone it down" in the lobby from what we would have liked to do, which would have been fine here.

Don't discount San Antonio. With the decline of FL as a popular retirement destination, I can totally see San Antonio rising up to takes its place with the hill country nearby and the great health care facitilies in SA. In a lot of ways its becoming a cheaper alternative to Austin.

It already is with military retirees because of all the facilities there for them.

Houston and Dallas are also drawing a lot from that percent of the population. One of my friends shot a music video in Houston and she said that most of them moved there from other places.

Houston and Dallas have always been tht way, the majority of the people that lived in my apartments in 91-93 were from a radius from Chicago to DC to the Northeast. There were a few from smaller Texas towns, Oklahoma, Arkansas or Louisiana but the overall majority were from Chicago, NYC, Pittsburgh, Detroit, etc.

[ZYX2]

Spartan I agree on the San Antonio over Houston. Houston is growing like crazy, but you haven't been to Cali or Phoenix lately. It is depressing. Empty stores and homeless everywhere. I think Phoenix will benefit from being close to Cali, but Cali is falling apart. I was just there and development is virtually at a standstill.

Last time I was in San Diego (two years ago) there were several condo towers going up downtown, the downtown was busy, and development was certainly not at a standstill, but, that was two years ago and things might have changed.

Regarding OKC being a "boom town," I don't necessarily disagree, but there always seems to be a bust soon thereafter, just look back a little ways in history, or at other cities, to know this is true. I would much rather see steady growth of about 10-15% every decade than a "boom" of sorts.

[ljbab728]

Yeah, I just never go to Cali for some reason. Is that indicative of the whole state, and including urban areas like LA, SF, SD proper, or just the insane sprawl mania places like Riverside?

Ooooh now I get it, yeah I was separately questioning San Antonio over Houston, and then questioning the inclusion of Phoenix and Riverside ahead of....anyone.

I go to California at least once or twice a year to visit my brother in LA. I love visiting there and there are countless great attractions. I just wouldn't want to live there.

[BG918]

Salt Lake City is one of the most booming cities in the country right now. I was there recently and was astounded by all the development. Lots of new jobs are being created there and it's a beautiful city next to snow-capped mountains.

Like Austin it is also home to the state govt and a large public research university. Those are also benefits that OKC has with Norman in the metro.

[Spartan]

Agreed, Atlanta is definitely not the only drawing piece. Those Texan cities are definitely on the top lists of transplants from anywhere in the US, not only blacks.

Apparently in the last 10 years, 45% of the jobs created in the U.S. were created in Texas. Rick Perry would like people to believe over half.

[dcsooner]

I've heard a lot of these transplants, from those northern cities in particular, are of African American heritage; a majority of them being posterity of the large demographic shift of the Great Migration[s]. Now that racial tension is more drama from the past than it is a current issue, a large number of blacks are moving from the northern cities and BACK to Southern USA. Or their "homeland" as the article put it. Lol. In fact, the percentage of blacks living in Southern USA is at 57%, the highest it's been since 1960. Atlanta being the African American magnet it is, naturally captures a certain percentage of those transplants.

Why is OKC and Oklahomas African American population 'relatively" stagnant? and why do so many of that demographic (incl myself) leave for other cities? Is OKC not African American friendly?

[Spartan]

No, it just doesn't have the big city mentality and entertainment that they might want. Lacking in those areas hasn't kept the Latino community from burgeoning however, and OKC is still one of the more diverse major U.S. cities for sure. I get what you are saying though. OKC is just kinda white bread, nothing more than that really.

[G.Walker]

The biggest thing that is hurting OKC's growth is that Dallas is just 2 & half hours south. When major corporations, big box retailers, or residential developers look at our region, we are considered in the Dallas region. So developers always look at Dallas first, as they have the 4th largest metro in the U.S. behind the big three of New York, L.A., and Chicago. Dallas is always going to be Dallas, it is considered one of the fastest growing metros is the U.S., we just won't be able to compete. Therefore, OKC just has to grow from within, as they have been for the last few decades, and not rely out out of state developers or corporations.

[G.Walker]

Salt Lake City is one of the most booming cities in the country right now. I was there recently and was astounded by all the development. Lots of new jobs are being created there and it's a beautiful city next to snow-capped mountains.

Like Austin it is also home to the state govt and a large public research university. Those are also benefits that OKC has with Norman in the metro.

Salt Lake City's growth was very stagnant in the 80's and 90's, they just recently started to boom in the 2000's. Hosting the 2002 Winter Olympics really pushed economic development is Salt Lake City, and really put it in the national spotlight, after that, developers and retailers came out of the woodwork.

I was actually born and raised in Utah, and I can assure you that most of Salt Lake City's metro growth is contributed from residents migrating from California, seeking a slower pace and fresh start.

[RadicalModerate]

Just a quick question:
Does the phrase "Boom Town" actually have positive connotations?

As the previous poster noted:
I was actually born and raised in Utah, and I can assure you that most of Salt Lake City's metro growth is contributed from residents migrating from California, seeking a slower pace and fresh start.

Is the grand, long-term vision for Oklahoma City to be Denver without the mountains or Los Angeles without the ocean?

There used to be a "joke"--back in Colorado--about OKC (and Oklahoma) being "ten years behind" in everything. Being "ten years behind" some of the already sprawled-out, nearly unlivable cities mentioned, as examples for emmulation or envy, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

(I'll step back and wait for the beating now....)

[G.Walker]

Just a quick question:
Does the phrase "Boom Town" actually have positive connotations?

As the previous poster noted:
I was actually born and raised in Utah, and I can assure you that most of Salt Lake City's metro growth is contributed from residents migrating from California, seeking a slower pace and fresh start.

Is the grand, long-term vision for Oklahoma City to be Denver without the mountains or Los Angeles without the ocean?

There used to be a "joke"--back in Colorado--about OKC (and Oklahoma) being "ten years behind" in everything. Being "ten years behind" some of the already sprawled-out, nearly unlivable cities mentioned, as examples for emmulation or envy, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

(I'll step back and wait for the beating now....)

Oklahoma City is slow, they are behind 10-20 years in development from major cities like Denver, L.A. However, I have a theory, history repeats itself. In the 20's, 30's, 40's downtown areas were the life of the city, then after WWII you had the suburban sprawl, and the automobile industry take flight. Now due to high gas prices, and this "go green" initiatives, and LEED certified construction, people now are wanting to live, work, and play in downtown, as they did in the 20's and 30's. My theory is what I like to call desurbanization. Where Oklahoma City comes in is that their downtown cores are not overdeveloped like LA, Denver, Houston, Dallas, etc...so basically OKC has prime land area in downtown core to develop and expand, has other major cities don't.

[G.Walker]

Moreover, if you look at development is major cities, like L.A., Dallas, Denver etc....most of their recent high-rise development is residential condominium or hotels. L.A. hasn't seen a major corporation skyscraper built in the downtown core in over 20 years. Dallas is just now building a major skyscraper in their downtown core in over 25 years, and its a residential condo, Museum Tower. Dallas most recent major development is just north of downtown, in Uptown in what is called Victory Park, where the majority of development is residential high rises. Austin is another great example, a majority of their development is residential condominium high-rises.

[dcsooner]

No, it just doesn't have the big city mentality and entertainment that they might want. Lacking in those areas hasn't kept the Latino community from burgeoning however, and OKC is still one of the more diverse major U.S. cities for sure. I get what you are saying though. OKC is just kinda white bread, nothing more than that really.

Spartan,
Agree with you as well. OKC needs to develop a more diverse cultural identity that has entertainment and employment options for people of color. Unitl that happens many African Americans who obtain the education and have the drive to improve the community will not stay long enough to do so.

[G.Walker]

Spartan,
Agree with you as well. OKC needs to develop a more diverse cultural identity that has entertainment and employment options for people of color. Unitl that happens many African Americans who obtain the education and have the drive to improve the community will not stay long enough to do so.

I am an African American male who went to OU for my undergrad and graduate degree, and this is what I observed. The majority of blacks who went to OU when I started in 99' were from Texas, moreover, they were recruited from what is now defunct MEP or Minority Engineering Program, as it was cheaper, for them to go to school at OU, then it was for them to go to school at UT, Baylor, Rice, etc...But this is what happened, all of them graduated and went back to Dallas, Houston to live and work, the OKC metro didn't retain their educated black population. Even black friends of mine from Oklahoma, who graduated from OU, moved to Dallas for work, as their was no adequate white collar jobs in the OKC metro. You would be astonished to know how many blacks from Texas who graduated from OU, had jobs waiting for them in Houston, Irving, working for Exxon Mobil, making $50,000 to $60,000 which was pretty good back in 03'.

[RadicalModerate]

Thanks for the well-reasoned response, G. Walker.
Especially for: "My theory is what I like to call desurbanization."


"OKC needs to develop a more diverse cultural identity that has entertainment and employment options for people of color. Unitl that happens many African Americans who obtain the education and have the drive to improve the community will not stay long enough to do so."

Wouldn't the development of that cultural identity--along with entertainment/employment opportunities--be enough of a good reason for qualified individuals (education/drive) to stay around? Or is someone else (e.g. a "person of color, somewhat lighter") supposed to do it for them. Then sell it to them at inflated prices? (As in the old, so-called, "nobless oblige" system of the past . . ?) I can't imagine a better opportunity for qualified "people of color" . . .

[Crossed Posts, Mr. Walker]

[dcsooner]

I am an African American male who went to OU for my undergrad and graduate degree, and this is what I observed. The majority of blacks who went to OU when I started in 99' were from Texas, moreover, they were recruited from what is now defunct MEP or Minority Engineering Program, as it was cheaper, for them to go to school at OU, then it was for them to go to school at UT, Baylor, Rice, etc...But this is what happened, all of them graduated and went back to Dallas, Houston to live and work, the OKC metro didn't retain their educated black population. Even black friends of mine from Oklahoma, who graduated from OU, moved to Dallas for work, as their was no adequate white collar jobs.

GWalker,
OU grad as well. I have no less than 5 friends (African American) who I grew up with in Lawton now living in DC metro area. All college graduates

[G.Walker]

OU recruited most of their black population back in 99' from the Minority Engineering Program, which offered scholarships to people of color majoring in anything in engineering. Most of black students from Dallas and Houston majored in Petroleum or Chemical Engineering. So they used Oklahoma to get a cheap education, and took their educated minds back to Dallas and Houston to work for major energy companies. But things are looking up here, back then Devon, Sandridge, Chesapeake, Continental Resources weren't major energy companies in 2000, now they are, however OU no longer offers that Minority Engineering Program, go figure. When OU got rid of that program in 04-05, the black population at OU dropped dramatically.

[bluedogok]

There was a series of articles in the Austin paper about six months ago about the African-American population in Austin and how relatively small it is in comparison to the other larger cities in Texas. Most of those interviewed went to school at UT but headed off to Dallas, Houston or Atlanta upon graduation. It isn't just an issue in OKC or at OU, most of the "medium sized" cities face the same issues.

[BG918]

OKC and Tulsa both still have sizable African American populations. OKC is at 14% and Tulsa is at 16%. The problem is that neither are attracting large numbers of young and educated blacks, unlike the larger cities in the South.

[Bunty]

Salt Lake City is one of the most booming cities in the country right now. I was there recently and was astounded by all the development. Lots of new jobs are being created there and it's a beautiful city next to snow-capped mountains.

Like Austin it is also home to the state govt and a large public research university. Those are also benefits that OKC has with Norman in the metro.

And Stillwater with OSU is just a twice as far drive away.