A will or a trust?

[okcisok]

It is time for the spouse and I to get a will (or trust?) and a power of attorney. Anyone have any thoughts on which is better and how to get it done right? Any first hand experiences? thanks

[kevinpate]

Done well, a trust is a useful part of estate protection and planning. Done poorly, it can be a nightmare. You can have a will without having a trust, but I don't think too many would urge having a trust without also having a will, as it's a bit of folly to assume you'll pass with everything covered via a trust alone. Passing tends to sneek up on folk sometimes.

I can send you a few names via pm, but unless you feel you have a real sound bead on me from my posts here, wor unelss you know me and I just don't realize it right now, would such recs really be of any more value than asking the next person in line at the gas pump?

[RealEstateCop1]

A trust

[ctchandler]

Make an appointment with an estate planning attorney. I believe consultation is fairly inexpensive, and the benefits could be worth a lot.
C. T.

[Midtowner]

You need an attorney, not a message board.

[ctchandler]

Midtowner,
Funny, I have experience and I think I know what to tell okcisok but the last time I checked, I didn't pass the bar. Heck, I didn't go to law school. I have my skills, but this isn't one of them. I liked your comment better than mine.
C. T.

You need an attorney, not a message board.

[okcisok]

Thanks C.T. for your reply. I knew we'd need an attorney but I was just asking for others experiences which you were kind enough to give. When you've never "been there, done that" it never hurts to ask. I'm fully aware that I got what I paid for. ha

[MikeOKC]

Thanks C.T. for your reply. I knew we'd need an attorney but I was just asking for others experiences which you were kind enough to give. When you've never "been there, done that" it never hurts to ask. I'm fully aware that I got what I paid for. ha

I agree a simple consultation would be wise. But the honest truth is that you have to be very wary of lawyers and your family's estate.

If it's not just a whole lot you'll be dealing with, don't be surprised if you hear three letters over and over: P.O.D. With bank accounts, CDs, etc. P.O.D. money falls into the hands of those you have listed as "Payment on Death (or Demand)" and is not involved in probate. The same, of course, with any life insurance and listed beneficiaries.

I don't see anything wrong with asking on the board and asking for experiences and such. Of course, the lawyers will all yell, "Go to an attorney." While it's good advice to get advice, asking around about experiences can keep you safe from these same lawyers who want to handle it all and end up taking a ridiculous sum of the estate's money. Sad, but true. (And nothing personal, Midtowner.)

[BDK]

I agree a simple consultation would be wise. But the honest truth is that you have to be very wary of lawyers and your family's estates.

If it's not just a whole lot you'll be dealing with, don't be surprised if you hear three letters over and over: P.O.D. With bank accounts, CDs, etc. P.O.D. money falls into the hands of those you have listed as "Payment on Death (or Demand)" and is not involved in probate. The same, of course, with any life insurance and listed beneficiaries.

I don't see anything wrong with asking on the board and asking for experiences and such. Of course, the lawyers will all yell, "Go to an attorney." While it's good advice to get advice, asking around about experiences can keep you safe from these same lawyers who want to handle it all and end up taking a ridiculous sum of the estate's money. Sad, but true. (And nothing personal, Midtowner.)

I don't understand this comment at all. If a lawyer is unethical, report him/her to the bar and take him/her to court. A lawyer is probably going to help you avoid taxes and secure your estate to the extent that the lawyer's services pay for themselves. You negotiate with your lawyer up front about his/her fees; it's not like a lawyer can arbitrarily demand a random sum of money...

[MikeOKC]

I don't understand this comment at all. If a lawyer is unethical, report him/her to the bar and take him/her to court. A lawyer is probably going to help you avoid taxes and secure your estate to the extent that the lawyer's services pay for themselves. You negotiate with your lawyer up front about his/her fees; it's not like a lawyer can arbitrarily demand a random sum of money...

What is there to not understand? It's just the truth.

Lawyers and ethics together in the same sentence? If everyone reported "unethical" lawyers, we'd be having to take all our legal needs to paralegals. The idea is to keep as much as possible from having to go through probate. Period. The more probate - the more lawyers take for themselves. Every phone call gets "billed" and on and on.

A lawyer can't demand an "arbitrary number?" They do it every day. Do you really think they all charge everyone the same thing? What planet could you possibly be living on? Lawyers and probate (more often than not) = thievery, plain and simple

[ctchandler]

okcisok and MikeOKC, OK, here is an experienced opinion. My attorney is Pete White, Oklahoma City councilman and when my mother died he explained that had she had a trust it would have saved us over 30 percent as opposed to probate. He also said since our family was so agreeable with everything even probate was cheaper than normal. A trust will allow your heirs to avoid probate. It also allows immediate access to everything by your executor, unlike probate. The one caveat is, probate is paid for by your heirs, and a trust is paid for by you. Logical, since probate is after you die and a trust is while you are alive. A little like a prepaid funeral. I suppose at age 67, I can tell you my experiences with the assumption that you understand that I don't want to give advice outside of my area of expertise. I forgot to mention that a trust and a will are both necessary.
C. T.

Thanks C.T. for your reply. I knew we'd need an attorney but I was just asking for others experiences which you were kind enough to give. When you've never "been there, done that" it never hurts to ask. I'm fully aware that I got what I paid for. ha

[MikeOKC]

okcisok and MikeOKC, OK, here is an experienced opinion. My attorney is Pete White, Oklahoma City councilman and when my mother died he explained that had she had a trust it would have saved us over 30 percent as opposed to probate. He also said since our family was so agreeable with everything even probate was cheaper than normal. A trust will allow your heirs to avoid probate. It also allows immediate access to everything by your executor, unlike probate. The one caveat is, probate is paid for by your heirs, and a trust is paid for by you. Logical, since probate is after you die and a trust is while you are alive. A little like a prepaid funeral. I suppose at age 67, I can tell you my experiences with the assumption that you understand that I don't want to give advice outside of my area of expertise. I forgot to mention that a trust and a will are both necessary.
C. T.

I agree with you 100%. The idea is keep it (or as much as possible) out of probate. That was really my point.

[ctchandler]

MikeOKC, Although I'm not as skeptical as you, you have a point about going through probate. Mr. White felt like you, avoid probate, save money. And he is an attorney. I liked his advice, he prepared my trust.
C. T.

What is there to not understand? It's just the truth.

Lawyers and ethics together in the same sentence? If everyone reported "unethical" lawyers, we'd be having to take all our legal needs to paralegals. The idea is to keep as much as possible from having to go through probate. Period. The more probate - the more lawyers take for themselves. Every phone call gets "billed" and on and on.

A lawyer can't demand an "arbitrary number?" They do it every day. Do you really think they all charge everyone the same thing? What planet could you possibly be living on? Lawyers and probate (more often than not) = thievery, plain and simple

[ctchandler]

MikeOKC, I thought we felt the same, based on your comments. Of course, that's not necessary in a forum like this, is it? I'm trying to be careful about offering advice.
C. T.

I agree with you 100%. The idea is keep it (or as much as possible) out of probate. That was really my point.

[MikeOKC]

MikeOKC, I thought we felt the same, based on your comments. Of course, that's not necessary in a forum like this, is it? I'm trying to be careful about offering advice.
C. T.

I'm sorry, C.T......I'm missing something. What did I say that's not necessary? If you meant my comments about lawyers, I didn't mean to offend anyone personally. Lawyer jokes are a dime a dozen and as a lot they're not much trusted. Is there something else I missed? I'm sorry, C.T....what was it?

[ctchandler]

Mike, OOps, let me clarify, you didn't say anything that was not necessary. I was saying "We agree", but in this forum, that's not necessary. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
C. T.

I'm sorry, C.T......I'm missing something. What did I say that's not necessary? If you meant my comments about lawyers, I didn't mean to offend anyone personally. Lawyer jokes are a dime a dozen and as a lot they're not much trusted. Is there something else I missed? I'm sorry, C.T....what was it?

[MikeOKC]

Mike, OOps, let me clarify, you didn't say anything that was not necessary. I was saying "We agree", but in this forum, that's not necessary. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
C. T.

Whew. I was reading through the thread wondering if I had mistakenly said something to offend you. I certainly would never do that intentionally, C.T. I've enjoyed our trips back to the nostalgic past over in the other forum since you've been a member here. Have a good evening.

[ctchandler]

Mike, Feel free to offend me anytime, but you didn't this time. Good night.
C. T.

Whew. I was reading through the thread wondering if I had mistakenly said something to offend you. I certainly would never do that intentionally, C.T. I've enjoyed our trips back to the nostalgic past over in the other forum since you've been a member here. Have a good evening.

[betts]

I believe the minimum taxable estate is now $5 million and don't think that's going to decrease anytime soon. So unless you've got an estate that big or bigger, I would think a will would be fine. Trusts are expensive to create.

[ctchandler]

Betts,This isn't about taxes, it's about cost to distribute my stuff, and probate costs more than a trust. My mother certainly didn't have money, but it cost more (60 percent more) to go through probate than it cost to prepare my will and trust.
C. T.

I believe the minimum taxable estate is now $5 million and don't think that's going to decrease anytime soon. So unless you've got an estate that big or bigger, I would think a will would be fine. Trusts are expensive to create.

[Midtowner]

My personal favorite is a pour-over will into a trust. Best of both worlds.

But again, it depends on your assets and how it's structured. A poorly written will (or trust) simply ensures that your family will be torn apart by fighting over the remains of your estate.

[okcisok]

Wow, I sure opened a can of worms with my original question. As you can see, there is alot of confusion (or could be) regarding this matter. To me, it always helps to ask questions and at least have some sort of idea what you're getting into. Thanks for everyone's comments. I have more now than I did yesterday.

[PennyQuilts]

OKCisok, all I have to say is that I think you're smart to be thinking along these lines. So many of us, ahem, put it off. Kudos!

[blangtang]

This thread is all about money and dying ugh! Double ugh! No really my old roommate from college is an estate planner/attorney and I talked to him and I decided the product or service he provides is something like "peace of mind" or maybe its giving the tax man the finger! Maybe its keeping the wealth where it belongs...

I don't have a will what happens if I have no descendants? For a basic will is something like legal zoom acceptable?

[kevinpate]

...
I don't have a will what happens if I have no descendants?

Without a will, or other prior to death planning for one's assets, state statutes provide for the order of distribution to the heirs. If you have no spouse and children, then the law sets out priorities for other relatives. If you are truly the last of the last, then it goes to the state, with the govt.'s thanks for the decision to not make a plan and leaving no one behind.