OKC/Will Rogers Air Service Discussion 2011

[damonsmuz]

Since we're talking about new routes, I have sometimes wondered why AA doesn't throw in a flight or 2 to MIA. Anyone here with "insider" information know how much traffic OKC has to the islands during the summer that connects through DFW?

[SkyWestOKC]

I don't have island data. But per the most recent data, Origin and Destination (traffic departing OKC bound for MIA, and vice versa) is not that strong.

OKC/FLL 75.43 (avg 37.7 passengers per day each way [37.7x2=75.43])
OKC/MIA 49.24 (avg 24.6 passengers per day each way [24.6x2=49.24])

FLL = Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood Intl.
MIA = Miami International Airport

Tulsa had this service because of maintenance flights, and even then, they didn't keep it too long.

[damonsmuz]

Skywest...are you an a.netter??? Any chance you could get your hands on which routes are most profitable for airlines out of OKC? When I was in ABI, I was talking to some of my friends who worked for Eagle that showed the ABI-DFW route being one of the top 50 most profitable routes. It made sense after I stared at the numbers for a while. You seem like you have a lot of knowledge on the insides of KOKC

[ljbab728]

Since we're talking about new routes, I have sometimes wondered why AA doesn't throw in a flight or 2 to MIA. Anyone here with "insider" information know how much traffic OKC has to the islands during the summer that connects through DFW?

The only significant traffic to MIA would be for those going on cruises and that doesn't justify a nonstop. There are a few places like St. Lucia which are difficult to get to without an overnight somewhere which would be nice but, again, the traffic doesn't justify it.

[Snowman]

Since we're talking about new routes, I have sometimes wondered why AA doesn't throw in a flight or 2 to MIA. Anyone here with "insider" information know how much traffic OKC has to the islands during the summer that connects through DFW?

I think their was flights offered to Miami and either Tampa or Orlando on a seasonal basis not too long ago.

[ljbab728]

I think their was flights offered to Miami and either Tampa or Orlando on a seasonal basis not too long ago.

Yes, we have had nonstops to Florida a few times in the past. At one time we even had a charter flight from here to Orlando during the summer season. There just isn't enough traffic currently for anything permanent.

[venture]

Orlando has been tried a couple times, and failed both times. Allegiant was planning to announce OKC-SFB (Sanford/Orland)...but decided to geave the market completely. Frontier tried Orlando and Tampa last year, and loads were crap.

Oklahoma to Florida is a very poor market. The yields are already bad for being mostly tourist traffic, but people just aren't willing to travel to Florida from OKC on any nonstop offerings. They'll usually stick to one stop/connection service on Southwest or filter down to the other airlines.

[rayhurst]

I know this has been discussed before (it has been a while) but when do you think we will get another NS flight to NYC besides the CO flight to EWR? An AA flight to JFK/LGA would seem the perfect fit as it would connect OKC to another AA hub and allow for connecting on the Europe (JFK) or business/leisure traffic into NYC (LGA). At one point someone posted that OKC-NYC was the largest O&D market not served with a NS if you exclude EWR.

On a related note, is there somewhere on the internet I can see O&D data for OKC or is that something that only industry "insiders" can see?

[pure]

Just as an FYI, LaGuardia doesn't allow flights 1500 miles or greater to arrive or depart. I'm not exactly sure how many miles OKC is to LGA, but this may play somewhat of a role in why LGA is unlikely.

[redrunner]

http://www.fly.com/deal.aspx?id=TODE...aign=OKC070611
Denver anyone? (must purchase by Thursday July 7.)

[venture]

Just as an FYI, LaGuardia doesn't allow flights 1500 miles or greater to arrive or depart. I'm not exactly sure how many miles OKC is to LGA, but this may play somewhat of a role in why LGA is unlikely.

We are around 1350 miles...so we are good. The biggest thing is that slots are so tied up at LGA still, it will be awhile to get service. If the US Airways / Delta slot swap ever gets approved, Delta could toss us a bone and offer service. However, I think they have a long list of cities who are in line ahead of us before we'll get the service.

[venture]

http://www.fly.com/deal.aspx?id=TODE...aign=OKC070611
Denver anyone? (must purchase by Thursday July 7.)

The Southwest fare sale is decent in some markets, others are still $400-500 round trip. Here is the list of cities where they are offering sale fares out of OKC, all the others are the normal $200-400 one way.

From Oklahoma City back to top
To Albuquerque for as low as $136 one-way
To Amarillo for as low as $108 one-way
To Boston for as low as $179 one-way
To Corpus Christi for as low as $142 one-way
To Dallas for as low as $39 one-way
To Denver for as low as $59 one-way
To El Paso for as low as $176 one-way
To Houston for as low as $69 one-way
To Jackson for as low as $144 one-way
To Kansas City for as low as $59 one-way
To Long Island for as low as $179 one-way
To Lubbock for as low as $105 one-way
To Midland/Odessa for as low as $129 one-way
To Minneapolis/St. Paul for as low as $179 one-way
To Omaha for as low as $150 one-way
To Providence for as low as $179 one-way
To San Antonio for as low as $131 one-way
To St. Louis for as low as $116 one-way

[redrunner]

Venture, thanks for mentioning the Southwest fare sale. I didn't even bother to look at the Denver flights because I didn't know they have nonstops. I split my itinerary flying out of OKC on F9 and returning from Denver on WN.

[SkyWestOKC]

I have some credit on F9 I needed to use, so I booked a WN flight to DEN, catching the mainline F9 return to OKC on Aug 2.

[soonerguru]

Just as an FYI, LaGuardia doesn't allow flights 1500 miles or greater to arrive or depart. I'm not exactly sure how many miles OKC is to LGA, but this may play somewhat of a role in why LGA is unlikely.

We're closer than DFW, so how do they flights originating there? That doesn't make sense.

[SkyWestOKC]

OKC is within the LGA perimeter.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=OKC,DFW,D...X=540x540&PM=*

[ljbab728]

Just as an FYI, LaGuardia doesn't allow flights 1500 miles or greater to arrive or depart. I'm not exactly sure how many miles OKC is to LGA, but this may play somewhat of a role in why LGA is unlikely.

I'm not sure where you get your information. Frontier and United fly nonstop from Denver to LGA which is 1626 miles. OKC would be closer. DFW to LGA is 1378 miles which would be a similar distance as OKC.

[venture]

I'm not sure where you get your information. Frontier and United fly nonstop from Denver to LGA which is 1626 miles. OKC would be closer. DFW to LGA is 1378 miles which would be a similar distance as OKC.

There is a 1500 mile perimeter rule from LGA that is valid all days except Saturday. However, Denver was made exempt to this rule since it is a major city just outside the line. Markets further west can only be served with special exemption slots that are limited and assigned by the DOT - I believe anyway...that is how it works out of DCA.

[kevinpate]

For those of us who lack an understanding, and maybe that's just moi, why does the 1500 mile limit exist?

[venture]

For those of us who lack an understanding, and maybe that's just moi, why does the 1500 mile limit exist?

It was initially put in place to make sure people used Idlewild when it opened (which is now JFK). They now use it mainly to control airlines from dumping service to closer (smaller) markets to serve the major cities on the west coast.

[SkyWestOKC]

Looks like Frontier is increasing OKC-Denver service to 4x daily beginning in February.

The change has not been loaded into the system so I don't know equipment or times.

It is either a new flight in addition to our current 1x mainline 2x ERJ190 setup, or a swap from mainline to add more frequency with the same number of seats (4x ERJ190 flights is about the same number of seats as 2x ERJ190 flights and 1x mainline.) It is hard to tell at this point, but we will know for sure this weekend when those changes get listed into the schedule and booking system.

Also noticed today that a Frontier flight was using Gate 1 as opposed to the normal Gate 2. Not sure if Frontier changed gates temporarily or not. But the flights for tomorrow are schedule to Gate 1.

[SkyWestOKC]

Frontier still using Gate 1. Gate 2 is probably INOP, as a move from Gate 2 to Gate 1 does not help Frontier, and it would not be a factor of AA wanting the gate (they don't need it), as Gate 8 is empty and would be the natural choice if AA wanted a 3rd gate.

The 4th Frontier flight has not been loaded into the schedule yet, most of those changes occur Saturday night or Sunday morning. Anxious to see what it is.

In other news, June was a very solid month as far as passenger numbers are concerned.
http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Jun...nplanement.pdf

Also very strong month for cargo, and number of operations.
http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Jun...20Activity.pdf

[woodyrr]

In other news, June was a very solid month as far as passenger numbers are concerned.
http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Jun...nplanement.pdf

and I was one of them.

On June 23rd I flew for the first time in my over five decades of life. I was in seat 6A of United Express / Skywest Airlines CRJ-700 flight 6217 from OKC to DEN. The flight attendants were professional and polite and it was a very nice flight.

It was not as nice as the Boeing 777, seat 18A, from DEN to ORD, but was much nicer than the flight from ORD to CAK in seat 4A on an RJ-145 operated by United Express / Expressjet Airlines. By the time I boarded the third flight, I was ready to get away from airports and airplanes for a while.

The United Red Carpet Club in DEN was a very nice place to wait for my mainline flight. I definitely recommend opting for the lounge during a lengthy layover. I took this photo with my iPhone just before I left the Club.


United Airlines Boeing 777 Flight 366 DEN - ORD by woodyrr, on Flickr

[damonsmuz]

HUGE AA news today. With the massive plane order and likely divesting of Eagle. KOKC may look completely different in the next couple of years. It'll be nice to see new planes rolling in here (though I will miss the mad dogs), but it'll also be interesting to see how Eagle operates in and out of the market. Will we see new routes, lose routes... let the speculation begin.....

[SkyWestOKC]

OKC won't see that much change. We might gain one or two A319 to ORD, we'll keep mainline to DFW, either A319 or 737 or a mix of the two.

OKC will be one of the last stations to be switched from MD80's to the new fleet. The fuel efficiency on short stage lengths is comparable between the MD80 and 737 and A320 series. Longer routes will be switched first, as fuel efficiency is a product of duration, as taxi, takeoff, climb, and landing use a lot of fuel, no matter what equipment is used. Fuel efficiency is seen on routes longer than 500nm.

With that said, we'll see some rotation in here, but we won't be the first station to get the Airbus. OKC, TUL, AUS, SAT, HOU, IAH, etc. will be some of the last stations to keep MD80 flying as it gets phased out.