Stage Center

[Rover]

I agree. To me, that would be a proper use of public money. If we can find millions and millions for big business, we can find money for a community arts center. If it needs to be fixed up - let's make it usable! Nobody from out-of-town visits downtown without mentioning that building. Love it or hate it - it's unique, it's iconic, it shows a progressive mindset, it shows people we are more than plain vanilla, it's just such a shame.

I agree that we ought to try to save it, but it needs to start at a grass roots level and only involve public money if it is shown that there is significant interest among the citizenry - more than a few board posters. We also need to decide if it is being saved as a "piece of art" or as a performance venue. If as a performance venue, then we need to identify the market segment it would be serving and make sure it will be used. To spend millions and millions on something that will have no use when finished would be a shame. So, who will use it and how often, and who will pay to go use/see the events?

If its long term use and real value is identified, and if the grass roots effort has raised a significant amount of seed capital to show COMMITTED interest, then I think the public should have an opportunity to vote on the investment to complete it.

[securityinfo]

I remember trying to do a fundraiser for the Mummers after the first season. Folks in support of trying to raise enough capital to make it through to the next season, with decorated shoeboxes with "Have a Heart, save the Mummers" as the slogan. It was close to Valentine's day you see.

It was unsuccessful. The Mummers folded, and the saga began.

Mack S. had some options to keep the Mummers open, but he must of felt that the price was too high. I believe he later felt "woulda, shoulda, coulda".

Too bad it could not have been included in the project funding that fixed up the Civic Center. That turned out pretty well.

[Larry OKC]

Sorry but couldn't disagree more about the Civic Center. Abomination comes to mind. It looked like they plopped a cruise ship in the middle of the magnificent Art Deco lobby. Went to events before and after the remodel, and will never go to another event in the new one again. The sound system was poor and the sight lines were even worse.

[rcjunkie]

Sorry but couldn't disagree more about the Civic Center. Abomination comes to mind. It looked like they plopped a cruise ship in the middle of the magnificent Art Deco lobby. Went to events before and after the remodel, and will never go to another event in the new one again. The sound system was poor and the sight lines were even worse.

All you do is talk bad about OKC, Civic Center, Maps, etc;, etc;, you must be miserable having to live in this hell hole, if I were you, I'd pack my bags and move.

[Rover]

Some people only see corruption, mismanagement, crime, waste, etc., etc., etc. But they aren't usually the ones who are actively engaged in actually DOING things. Their world is nothing but negatives. Every once in awhile you would think they could see something positive in something other than their own thoughts. OKC has gotten an amazing amount out of what we have put in. Other cities use OKC as an example. But it will never be good enough for those who stand on the periphery and throw rocks.

[Questor]

I just checked the state's website and am really surprised to see that this building is not listed in the historic register. I realize most buildings have to be 50 years old for consideration, but that's a guideline not a rule. I found that the model and plans for this building are on display at MOMA in NYC. How on earth is this site not protected? The freaking Milk Bottle on Classen is on the register but this building isn't? WTF?

[MikeOKC]

I just checked the state's website and am really surprised to see that this building is not listed in the historic register. I realize most buildings have to be 50 years old for consideration, but that's a guideline not a rule. I found that the model and plans for this building are on display at MOMA in NYC. How on earth is this site not protected? The freaking Milk Bottle on Classen is on the register but this building isn't? WTF?

I know that there can be exceptions to the 50+ rule because the Gold Dome was granted the status under the exception clause.

[Patrick]

Sorry but couldn't disagree more about the Civic Center. Abomination comes to mind. It looked like they plopped a cruise ship in the middle of the magnificent Art Deco lobby. Went to events before and after the remodel, and will never go to another event in the new one again. The sound system was poor and the sight lines were even worse.

Maybe you need to see your eye doctor and get your hearing checked. The acoustics in the Civic Center are outstanding. Compared to what it was like before....no comparison....sound was horrible in the old Civic Center. And there's not a bad seat in the house....I've sat on every level.

[Rover]

Sorry but couldn't disagree more about the Civic Center. Abomination comes to mind. It looked like they plopped a cruise ship in the middle of the magnificent Art Deco lobby. Went to events before and after the remodel, and will never go to another event in the new one again. The sound system was poor and the sight lines were even worse.

Well, this is a surprising statement coming from someone so cultured and experienced in the finer things. You are usually so open minded and positive.

Larry, give it up. You have now become a cartoon character and have lost all credibility.

[MikeOKC]

Maybe you need to see your eye doctor and get your hearing checked. The acoustics in the Civic Center are outstanding. Compared to what it was like before....no comparison....sound was horrible in the old Civic Center. And there's not a bad seat in the house....I've sat on every level.

I agree with you Patrick about the Civic Center. There's no comparison. It's light years better than the 'old' Civic Center.

[flintysooner]

I found the Civic Center to be outstanding -- really a wonderful venue for Oklahoma City. Surprised to see the negative post.

[securityinfo]

I just checked the state's website and am really surprised to see that this building is not listed in the historic register. I realize most buildings have to be 50 years old for consideration, but that's a guideline not a rule. I found that the model and plans for this building are on display at MOMA in NYC. How on earth is this site not protected? The freaking Milk Bottle on Classen is on the register but this building isn't? WTF?

Yep.

It will be a sad day when (if?) it is carted off as rubble.

[rcjunkie]

I found the Civic Center to be outstanding -- really a wonderful venue for Oklahoma City. Surprised to see the negative post.

You have to consider the source and look at all of his postings, he's always negative on, and about, everything OKC does.

[Larry OKC]

Well, this is a surprising statement coming from someone so cultured and experienced in the finer things. You are usually so open minded and positive.

Larry, give it up. You have now become a cartoon character and have lost all credibility.

How do you figure? It was my opinion based on my experience and first hand observation. Your mileage may vary. And I do post positives from time to time. Sorry if you and RC missed them.

Patrick, thank you for your concern, eye sight and hearing are fine, they are virtually unchanged from then (the before/after). We were in the "same seat/row after as before and if not for the projection screen utilized during the performance, we wouldn't have been able to tell what was happening. Much farther from the stage. Before I was close enough to see the expression on the performers faces...a very enjoyable experience. Was expecting even better after the remodel (believed the hype). Since it was the same routines that we had seen on TV many a time in reruns, we knew the dialog. But since we were watching it on screen and filling in the dialog on our own, might as well have stayed home and got the DVD (which I later did).

[Larry OKC]

You have to consider the source and look at all of his postings, he's always negative on, and about, everything OKC does.

Untrue. While most of my posts could be characterized that way, there have been positive posts from time to time (sorry if you missed them). Heck, I have even agreed with you a time or two! LOL

I applaud them when they do something right, and go "negative" when they do something wrong. Is it my fault that they seem to be doing more wrong to comment on than right? I think not.

[betts]

I agree with you Patrick about the Civic Center. There's no comparison. It's light years better than the 'old' Civic Center.

I'm going to agree and disagree with everyone. While I actually like the way the interior of the Civic Center now looks, I agree that it has a certain ocean liner type feel to it. I just happen to like that look. And I think the acoustics are really variable. We saw Rent, sat in the front row of the balcony and could barely hear and certainly couldn't discern lyrics. My sister in law was here when Phantom of the Opera was here once (laughably, she's from NYC and had never seen it) and said she was dying to go. Because it was late notice, the only seats we could get were box seats at about the same level as the balcony. I was really worried that we wouldn't hear a thing, but had quite the opposite experience. So, while in some places the acoustics are quite nice, in others they're terrible (small sample size, I realize). From then on, we've made certain we have very good seats or we don't go.

[flintysooner]

I've always sat in box seats or in the front row of the grand tier or mezzanine level.

And I've not seen a play but only listed to musical performances.

[FritterGirl]

Larry,

Based upon your description of things, it seems your issue with the Civic Center has more to do with the quality of the production, and not the building itself.

While many can concede that some sightlines are limited, especially in the box areas, overall the sightlines have greatly improved.

The seat farthest away from the stage is only 75 feet away, that being on the uppermost balcony level. Not many performance houses can claim that.

Studies done by outside acoustical engineer firms have, time and time again, shown that the hall itself ranks as one of the top halls in the country.

Most problems with the hall's acoustics have NOTHING to do with the hall itself and everything to do with the sound tech or engineer of the performing arts group who is presenting a show there. Most presenting groups bring in their own sound guys (and equipment), and they have a set sound pattern they tune to for the performances. VERY few ever consult with the in-house acoustician, nor do they try to tune their own sound engineering to the theatre.

They go by what is "standard" for their production and move on. This is especially true for the traveling Broadway-type productions.

[Rover]

I'm going to agree and disagree with everyone. While I actually like the way the interior of the Civic Center now looks, I agree that it has a certain ocean liner type feel to it. I just happen to like that look. And I think the acoustics are really variable. We saw Rent, sat in the front row of the balcony and could barely hear and certainly couldn't discern lyrics. My sister in law was here when Phantom of the Opera was here once (laughably, she's from NYC and had never seen it) and said she was dying to go. Because it was late notice, the only seats we could get were box seats at about the same level as the balcony. I was really worried that we wouldn't hear a thing, but had quite the opposite experience. So, while in some places the acoustics are quite nice, in others they're terrible (small sample size, I realize). From then on, we've made certain we have very good seats or we don't go.

This is pretty much the case in all performance halls I have been to around the world. There is a reason premium seats go for more $. Also consider that in this instance, the designer was charged with containing the hall in a building shell that never was designed or built with optimum proportions for perfect acoustics. We could have improved all seats by eliminating some size and seats. That would have been controversial also. So, we maximized the seating, improved the acoustics immeasurably, retained the historic shell of the building and the great Hall of Mirrors, and did it for a reasonable price. So of course, some on here are totally disappointed because their $15 seat isn't as great as the $100 seat. There ARE some on here who SHOULD stay home and watch it on TV.

BTW, I have seats in various sections depending on the programs, Lyric, Broadway, etc. and don't have perfect hearing, but haven't had any complaints on the sound. When I started and the seats were farther back than what I have worked up to, I couldn't always see the faces clearly as I was used to in the cozier Broadway theaters in NYC. So I continued to renew and move up until now I have great seats. Sometimes you just have to work yourself into the best position you can and be a loyal supporter. Occasional participants aren't going to get the best seats unless they shell out $$$.

[flintysooner]

I think when I was able to attend and had the box seat reservations I had to make a charitable contribution in addition to paying for the seats. So it was definitely not inexpensive.

That said though the Yo-Yo Ma performance alone was worth all that I spent and more and I'm thankful I had the ability to see him.

[Rover]

Glad I don't know the difference between good and bad performance centers. Every time my wife and I have gone to a show here, we have left with smiles on our faces. Is this more of a problem for those that are avid show goers or is there something in particular that I could/should be watching/listening for?

The Civic Center hosts everything from musicals to ballet, from orchestral performances to business programs. It must be large enough to house a number of people to make it cost effective to host the events on limited run basis without raising ticket prices beyond affordability. In other words, it must be VERY flexible and may not be specifically designed for technical excellence for EVERY event. Among others, I've been to La Scala....one of the world's most historically acclaimed opera venue. It would be very lacking for a number of other uses we expect at our Civic Center. NO venue will be perfect, but ours is pretty darn good. We got a lot for our money.

[BDP]

Most problems with the hall's acoustics have NOTHING to do with the hall itself and everything to do with the sound tech or engineer of the performing arts group who is presenting a show there.

This is so true. It's very hard to work with a bad room, but a good room alone does not mean that it will always sound good.

[Larry OKC]

... We could have improved all seats by eliminating some size and seats. That would have been controversial also. So, we maximized the seating...

Reportedly that is exactly what they did, they reportedly eliminated seating and made the lower levels more "intimate". Maybe they added seating by going up. IIRC in the old, there was only the one balcony level and it so set fairly far back. I did check out the upper level seating and it did seem like you were looking directly down on the stage. But even from the back row, I could see where vertigo might be a problem for some (it was disconcerting for me and as far as I know, I don't have that affliction).

... improved the acoustics immeasurably, retained the historic shell of the building and the great Hall of Mirrors, and did it for a reasonable price.

As I said, the seats were in the same location and the acoustics were worse, not better. As Betts pointed out, our samplings are limited. I don't have the excess funds to keep changing seats and constantly upgrading to find a location that will be acceptable. It was more than acceptable the one time and completely unacceptable the next.

Guess it depends on your definition of reasonable. The Civic Center came in costing nearly double what voters were told:
Pre-vote = $27MM
Final cost = $53MM
Over = $26MM

So of course, some on here are totally disappointed because their $15 seat isn't as great as the $100 seat.

Where did I say that I expected a $100 seat for $15? I didn't, but I think it is entirely reasonable to expect the same viwwing/auditory experience from seats that were supposedly in the same row and within 5 seats (left to right) from before/after.

[bornhere]

My experience has been that the acoustics have been fine, at least for symphony performances. I've never been to any plays in the new auditorium.

It is, by the way, smaller than the original.

[mcca7596]

Larry, you're not acknowledging what others have said about different shows using their default sound settings and not working with the building.

Unless you saw the exact same play produced by the same company with the same equipment before and after the remodel, I don't think you can make too harsh of a judgement.