Enogex to move 400 jobs to dt OKC!

[kevinpate]

should parking ever really become a problem that closes in on the perception of some, it's not like some folks couldn't get together and decide a structure or three, or recently vacated lot in the core isn't really all that and a bag o chips. Once decided, it would be oh so okie dokie to go ahead and knock it down, clear it out, and put in a surface lot or maybe even a multi-level garage, depending on who's doing the deciding.

[Just the facts]

Larry, you're assuming that none of those employees might decide to live downtown or wouldn't use some other kind of transportation to work besides a car. But you're correct anyway that the parking will not be a problem.

This is the new urbanism at work. Live downtown, work downtown, play downtown - no need for a car or a parking space. Add in a ZipCar at some point and the need to own a car will be gone 100%. That will save the average person $500 per month (car payment, insurance, gas, oil change, parking space, etc).

[bombermwc]

OK, I don't understand this move. So they're a couple hundred folks....only 5 floors in LS. They're going to significantly increase their costs by moving downtown rather than where they were. Now the building they were in is nothing fancy...it's a cookie cutter building you see of various heights all over OKC....even MWC has a 4 floor version. But you give up the 30 second walk free parking world for downtown's parking fun (oh yeah there isn't a parking problem, right....cough). That also means the cost to the employee goes up. Having to pay to park every day can be a huge burdon for someone in an entry level position. They actually would make more money not following the company downtown.

Again, I just dont understand what it gets them. So now they have proximity to other energy companies. So what. It's not as though they interact with each other....there's no B2B there.

[betts]

Maybe they're moving downtown for the same reason I did. It's fun to be downtown, there's more going on, it makes you feel current. Company owners are as subject to those sorts of feelings as anyone. Why did Sandridge put their offices downtown? Why did Larry Nichols build his new building downtown? There's your answer, I suspect.

[PhiAlpha]

OK, I don't understand this move. So they're a couple hundred folks....only 5 floors in LS. They're going to significantly increase their costs by moving downtown rather than where they were. Now the building they were in is nothing fancy...it's a cookie cutter building you see of various heights all over OKC....even MWC has a 4 floor version. But you give up the 30 second walk free parking world for downtown's parking fun (oh yeah there isn't a parking problem, right....cough). That also means the cost to the employee goes up. Having to pay to park every day can be a huge burdon for someone in an entry level position. They actually would make more money not following the company downtown.

Again, I just dont understand what it gets them. So now they have proximity to other energy companies. So what. It's not as though they interact with each other....there's no B2B there.

OGE is enogex's parent company, I'd imagine it has something to do with them being closer to each other.

[Just the facts]

Can someone (bombermwc) please define "parking problem". What exactly is it that is perceived as the problem? Is it because you have to pay for it? Is it because you have to walk a couple blocks from the parking spot to where you want to go? Is it because you literally can't find a parking space (as in - there are 500 parking spaces and you are car 501)? What is the 'problem' in 'parking problem'?

[rcjunkie]

Can someone (bombermwc) please define "parking problem". What exactly is it that is perceived as the problem? Is it because you have to pay for it? Is it because you have to walk a couple blocks from the parking spot to where you want to go? Is it because you literally can't find a parking space (as in - there are 500 parking spaces and you are car 501)? What is the 'problem' in 'parking problem'?

I think that with most, it's a matter of perception, people are lazy and want to park at the front door, rather it's at home, shopping or work.

[Pete]

For years, I worked in Leadership Square -- in fact, our offices were on the 3rd floor of the north tower, which is part of the space being taken by Enogex.

I loved working down there. Whatever small inconvenience regarding parking was more than off-set by tons of lunch options, being able to walk to my bank and dry cleaners, and run lots of other errands without having to get in my car. Plus, I knew plenty of people that also worked down there so we frequently met for lunch or afterwards for happy hour or dinner. And of course, there are now tons of entertainment options as well.

I'm sure there is some synergy with OG&E but regardless, lots of people love working downtown and for most, that will be seen as a plus when considering a job or staying at one.

Also, keep in mind that our downtown is in the geographic center of the metropolitan area. While it may seem to some that everybody has moved to Edmond, there are lots of employees of any large company that live in Moore/Norman, Mid/Del, and Yukon/Mustang. Downtown is very easy to get to from all those areas.

[Just the facts]

I think that with most, it's a matter of perception, people are lazy and want to park at the front door, rather it's at home, shopping or work.

But I want to hear the reason from some who thinks there is a problem. We can sit back and say it is a perception issue but for someone like bombermwc, he doesn't see at a perception problem. It is a real problem for him. I just want him to identify the problem.

[TStheThird]

I park downtown all of the time for multiple different events during day and night and never have issues. Paying $5 or walking a couple blocks is not a parking problem.

[stlokc]

Pete's comment about geographic location is right on point, and not something that is discussed much. OKC may be sprawling, but at least it manages to be sprawling in 3 or 4 different directions, which keeps downtown near the "center." If I were a company looking at recruitment, I would think about this a lot. By locating on Memorial Road, companies make it very hard to attract qualified employees from Moore or Norman. Same thing if a company were to locate far South. How many Edmond or NW OKC people would drive down there? Also, about parking: many employers in Downtown St. Louis split parking costs with their employees as an added benefit. I would imagine companies in OKC would do the same thing.

[BG918]

For years, I worked in Leadership Square -- in fact, our offices were on the 3rd floor of the north tower, which is part of the space being taken by Enogex.

I loved working down there. Whatever small inconvenience regarding parking was more than off-set by tons of lunch options, being able to walk to my bank and dry cleaners, and run lots of other errands without having to get in my car. Plus, I knew plenty of people that also worked down there so we frequently met for lunch or afterwards for happy hour or dinner. And of course, there are now tons of entertainment options as well.

I'm sure there is some synergy with OG&E but regardless, lots of people love working downtown and for most, that will be seen as a plus when considering a job or staying at one.

Also, keep in mind that our downtown is in the geographic center of the metropolitan area. While it may seem to some that everybody has moved to Edmond, there are lots of employees of any large company that live in Moore/Norman, Mid/Del, and Yukon/Mustang. Downtown is very easy to get to from all those areas.

Agree. Working downtown is awesome. You definitely miss it once you've worked there and then are moved somewhere else...

[Larry OKC]

Larry, you're assuming that none of those employees might decide to live downtown or wouldn't use some other kind of transportation to work besides a car. But you're correct anyway that the parking will not be a problem.

Larry is also clearly unaware of the parking surplus created by the doubling of the City Center garage by Devon and move of their employees. Santa Fe garage has a lot of vacancy right now and should be able to accommodate much of this influx.

You guys are funny!

Sure some might decide to live downtown, but that brings up a couple of obvious questions: How many? And are there sufficient residences for that number that are also affordable and have what ever those folks are looking for? Or are the majority going to continue living wherever they currently do and commute? Maybe they are going to utilize our excellent City bus system, the yet non-existent Streetcars (which are being pushed back in the timeline), the rubber tired Trolleys or maybe the River Cruises. LOL

I am aware of the doubling of the garage in question. We went though the math on this in another thread about Continental Resources coming, and there was going to be a net loss of spaces as a result of that. Don't see how needing a potential 400 more spaces helps any? That said, I take it the Santa Fe garage is in close proximity? Where is Santa Fe garage in relation to the Continental Resources move?

[okcRE]

another aspect is the psychological effect of moving to downtown; being in a fast pace environment has a positive affect on employees' work ethic and motivation.

[Larry OKC]

But I want to hear the reason from some who thinks there is a problem. We can sit back and say it is a perception issue but for someone like bombermwc, he doesn't see at a perception problem. It is a real problem for him. I just want him to identify the problem.

Can only speak for myself but you are right. If given a choice (and we have that) I am going to frequent a business that has free parking as close to the entrance that I can over any business that doesn't have parking and either collects the money themselves or uses a 3rd party (paid meters or parking garages/surface lots). Case in point, if a business has another location that is just as close to where I am and they have free, accessible parking, I am going to go there over the DT location (unless I am DT for some other reason already). Zios, Abuelos and Chilenos all come to mind. As much as we liked Spaghetti Warehouse, got tired of circling the block to try to find a metered space and having do make sure you have change, and time it so you either leave before it expires or have to go out and feed the meter etc). Just go to Toby Keith's and free parking.

In today's economy, paying $5 for parking on a regular basis is simply out of the question. Now if you are the Assistant City Manager making a 6 figure salary, or a 20+ year retired City employee with 17 rental properties, that is a luxury that the people I know can't afford.

For some it is a matter of laziness, for others it can be a matter of necessity (walking "a couple of blocks" is out of the question").

[bluedogok]

If 5.00 is a deal breaker then you better not go to a major city downtown area because the parking is way more than that. If you can't afford 5.00 for parking you probably ought to stay home.

[Larry OKC]

And that is what I do most of the time (or as I said, I go places that don't charge for parking and such). I might do it for a special occasion, but certainly not on a daily basis.

[betts]

Or park in Deep Deuce for free. We've got a couple of people who clearly work in DT OKC. I see them getting out of their cars in the morning, jacket in hand, heading into the CBD. And there are plenty of people who park on 2nd St. when there are special events. Of course, when LEVEL and Aloft are completed, the free street parking is going to fall off dramatically.

[stlokc]

LarryOKC...Enogex is a corporate office, not a pizza restaurant or a clothing store. I doubt seriously whether a business such as this is very reliant on walk-in traffic. If you are a businessperson engaging in the services of Enogex, you are probably not visiting in person so often that the parking situation is a major trauma.

[Larry OKC]

stlokc,

I am aware of that. But a parking space is a parking space. In regards to Enogex, where are those employees supposed to park? If you have an influx of 400 employees competing for the same number of spaces (within whatever proximity is acceptable) for whatever reason (business or pleasure), doesn't that present a potential "problem"? As I said, it isn't just these 400 coming into DT, Devon seems to be taking care of their own expansion needs and possibly SandRidge is doing the same. But what about Continental Resources? They are bringing X amount of employees with plans for significant expansion rather soon. There are others this is just the last contributing factor. It is a good problem to have, but it can quickly develop into a real problem and not just a perceived one (often perception becomes reality, just ask anyone involved in marketing).

[stlokc]

Larry, I apologize if I misread your post at 9:17. I thought you were equating the experience of the casual visitor trying to find a Bricktown spot for dinner with the visitors to Enogex. I do agree that perception can become reality ( I actually do work in marketing). All the more reason for the downtown community to actively shape perception. I'm pretty sure a company is not going to move 400 employees without doing due diligence on such matters. And I can't claim intimate knowledge about the downtown garages. But 3 or 4 or even 5 blocks is really not that unusual for an urban area. People in OKC, and I don't say this to judge, it's a point of fact, have become so used to the suburban way of thinking with regards to parking that they are slow to realize that there are trade-offs involved with a reviving downtown. I'm certain that if people with money perceive an unmet need, or the city does, then a new garage will spring up in one of the vacant lots that ring downtown.

[mcca7596]

I'm certain that if people with money perceive an unmet need, or the city does, then a new garage will spring up in one of the vacant lots that ring downtown.

I believe it has been discussed that Sandridge intends to add two parking garages on surface lots they own at 4th and 5th and Broadway as part of their campus master plan.

[ljbab728]

You guys are funny!

Sure some might decide to live downtown, but that brings up a couple of obvious questions: How many? And are there sufficient residences for that number that are also affordable and have what ever those folks are looking for? Or are the majority going to continue living wherever they currently do and commute? Maybe they are going to utilize our excellent City bus system, the yet non-existent Streetcars (which are being pushed back in the timeline), the rubber tired Trolleys or maybe the River Cruises. LOL

I am aware of the doubling of the garage in question. We went though the math on this in another thread about Continental Resources coming, and there was going to be a net loss of spaces as a result of that. Don't see how needing a potential 400 more spaces helps any? That said, I take it the Santa Fe garage is in close proximity? Where is Santa Fe garage in relation to the Continental Resources move?

Larry, I'm glad to have provided you some amusement. But you don't have any answers to your questions, either. You just assume that every new downtown employee will require a parking spot and you have absolutely no way of knowing that. Even those who don't live downtown or take public transportation can participate in carpooling. Please try to find a few more negative aspects to downtown growth if you can so we can send all developments to the burbs. I suspect that Enogex didn't make this decision and afterwards suddenly decide "Whoops, where will my employees park and how can they afford it."

[Architect2010]

Larry. You are incredibly pessimistic, and you EMBRACE that. It's terrifying. ;]

[bombermwc]

That $5+ charge per day is my #1 complaint for any downtown parking. For a good salary employee, it's not a big deal to spend an extra $100 a month if that's where the job is. But for an entry level worker, parking can consist of almost a 1/10 of their take home pay folks. You're talking about the bread and butter of any medium and large size company. It's a HUGE burdon for those people. So, for example, you take the janitor for Enogex. You're now telling that person that they can expect to have a pay cut of $1200 a year just to be able to park at their job compared to free parking before. For those of us with comfortable salaries, we don't really think about it because it's not a big problem for us. But for some people, that is a HUUUUUGE deal.

Unless you take the approach of working out a deal where your employees park for free somewhere and your company absorbs the cost, then you're shafting your employee.

And just for the record, i don't mind walking a few blocks. Remember I'm the one that complains about people driving their car from one store to the next in a strip mall. I walk the 1/2 mile from one end to the other...even with a stroller with 2 kids in it.

If you move downtown, yes there is more of a delay in getting to your desk...that's part of the world of being in an urban jungle. You just have to personally add more time to your commute to make it happen.

My #2 gripe is the availability of spaces. We see crap thrown out from the city about how many spaces there are...blah blah. If we didn't need more spaces, then why did we have a couple of new massive parking garages that were built at Galleria? Did we not need a garage at the county courthouse either. We've added spaces after years of people complaining and the parking authority ignoring it because it would mean more spaces...ie more supply...so they can't justify the cost as much. It's a lame arguement and we just flat don't have enough parking. And a lot of it is in the WRONG place. I don't often see Santa Fe full. Why is that? Because people don't want to park there and then walk halfway across downtown either. That can add another 20 minutes to the commute. There's a difference in adding a few minutes to get a couple blocks and the city saying, "hey we have 1000 spaces 1/4 mile away, just use that". Would you like it if the city put a parking lot in your neighborhood and told everyone to use it rather than their own driveway? I don't think so.

And just by saying there isn't a problem, doesn't make the problem go away. That's the city's role in this fun. Ignore it.