New stores in store for OKC

[metro]

I'm sure it was still based on density and income, and a daniel is right, I used to work for a large company with rapid expansion, and I was the marketing guy pulling stats. That is pretty much the norm and heir is no emotional ties to an area usually.

[okclee]

It really surprises me that the people pulling data and stats for retail expansion don't have better access to a better type of analysis system setup.

Again I keep going back to everyone here knows the layout of Okc and we are setup differently than most other cities, yet retail execs aren't privy to this info? Anyone can pull up Okc data and stats for retail at the Okc chamber of commerce website.

It's funny that many times Okc begs and begs for a new store to locate here only to hear the same response, "the retail company feels the Okc market isn't good enough". On the other hand there are retail companies that get persuaded or take a risk, to locate a store to Okc, and they become amazed at the fantastic sales numbers all the while their data numbers showed the Okc market as average or below average.

I think we all know that Whole Foods will be one of the companies that will have fantastic sales numbers and we know they had to be persuaded to locate into the Okc market.

[BDP]

Also, as adaniel suggests, the people compiling the data may be doing a superficial analysis. They don't care if we get a store or not.

Actually that's how they stay objective, by not caring. The reality is that every new store is a risk. All they are trying to do is mitigate that risk. They have tried and true formulas that tell them how to do just that. So, when the stats don't support it, you're actually counting on finding someone that is willing to put their job on the line and say "I know the stats don't look good, but I have a "feeling" Oklahoma City would be a good market for us". Then you have to have someone willing to take the time to find supporting data that fits outside of their stats in order to sell it to the check writers that it is something they should so. Then you're asking them to basically open 1 Oklahoma City store that has no supporting data instead of spending that time on opening 5 turn key locations with numbers that have worked dozens of times already.

Now, the good news for the chain lovers is that having a successful store with similar demographics in a location is a risk mitigate. They already know who shops at what stores and they can get or estimate traffic counts. These are actually better numbers than raw demographic and density numbers. They won't just know how many people within x income range make how much. They will know exactly how many shoppers within x income range shop at a specific geographic point and how much they spend. So, if you get one store to take the risk and succeed, it should lead to others.

But, (just because I have to)... we should also keep in mind that local retailers already know the city because they live here, pay taxes here, and invest their money back into the community. No national chain will do that. Not to mention there is less likelihood that you will look like you have a mail order wardrobe if you go local. ; ) And, honestly, if we spent more of our money here, nationals would already be trying to get a piece of it. The reality is that a lot of them already get our money and they don't have to open a new store here.

[Pete]

he reality is that every new store is a risk. All they are trying to do is mitigate that risk. They have tried and true formulas that tell them how to do just that. So, when the stats don't support it, you're actually have to find someone that is willing to put their job on the line and say "I know the stats don't look good, but I have a "feeling" Oklahoma City would be a good market for us". Then you have to have someone willing to take the time to find supporting data that fits outside of their stats in order to sell it to the check writers that it is something they should so.

As someone who marketed to big retailers I can tell you this is exactly how it works. They have people in their real estate offices that usually work by territory. They have specific guidelines that are handed down from on high. More often than not when contacted, they provide a quick response to the effect that OKC isn't in their immediate plans -- another way of saying there are other priorities they want to pursue first.

I still know a lot of the people that market retail properties in OKC and I can assure you they are all contacting these chains trying to sell them on either a specific location or wanting to help them find sites in town. This is how they make their money -- it's all commission based. You can be guaranteed any store/restaurant you've thought about has already been approached multiple times by these brokers. It's a very aggressive business.

But they have their parameters and usually the real estate people follow them blindly. They certainly don't want to take responsibility for something that isn't successful... And if it is, at least they can say, "Hey, I just followed our formula".


To give you an example of how all this can work, in the mid-80's I was marketing a property near Meridian and right on an on-ramp to I-40. Perfect site for any sort of fast food but when I contacted the local Taco Bell real estate person, she refused it flatly because at the time, the corporate stance was that "people don't eat tacos in their car"; meaning they wanted locations near residential areas, rather than freeways. Needless to say, they've radically changed their philosophy but that was the company line at the time and this real estate rep certainly wasn't going to question it.

And of course, I called on tons and tons of national retailers that wouldn't even consider Oklahoma City, although with time some of them opened up to the possibility. I was the very first person to represent Walgreen's in Oklahoma, for example.

[okclee]

So it sounds to me like Okc needs Tulsa to land new retail first and hope that it is successful in the Tulsa metro.

The more new retail that is proven to be successful in the Tulsa area, the more likely that Okc won't seem like such a high risk?

Go Tulsa!!

[SoonerQueen]

I would love to see a grocery store in the 63rd and N May area. I would also like to see Costco break into this market. I get tired of Sam's and WalMart. I also think our laws need to be changed so that we can buy eyeglasses at retail outlets like Sam's, Sears, etc.

[progressiveboy]

I would love to see a grocery store in the 63rd and N May area. I would also like to see Costco break into this market. I get tired of Sam's and WalMart. I also think our laws need to be changed so that we can buy eyeglasses at retail outlets like Sam's, Sears, etc.

I think that would be a good target area for a grocery store. If I recall, they closed the Consumers IGA on 63 & May a long time ago, then Mayfair Market on 50th & May closed and is now a CVS and then Pratts on 39& Portland closed. You would think a grocer would open up a store in this area.

[onthestrip]

The Borders location on NW Expwy would be a great spot for another nice grocer.

[ljbab728]

The Borders location on NW Expwy would be a great spot for another nice grocer.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea but Buy For Less is in that immediate area.

[oneforone]

It may not be everyone's cup of tea but Buy For Less is in that immediate area.

The last news story that was wrote up on Buy For Less mentioned that the NW Expressway & Portland store would recieve a remodel sometime in 2011. I am willing to bet they will probably offer some of the products and services that will be offered by Whole Foods.

I have always liked the deli and bakery in that store. When I worked at my old job I would frequent the deli their because they had a large variety of heat and eat meals.

[onthestrip]

It may not be everyone's cup of tea but Buy For Less is in that immediate area.

Doesn't matter. I'm talking more of a specialty grocer. When you look at it there is much more than a buy for less. A wal mart supercenter, a few homelands not much further. I'm talking about a smaller, upscale grocer. The chamber did mention that even though Borders was closing, it gave them the chance to recruit a new retailer to okc.

[BDP]

So it sounds to me like Okc needs Tulsa to land new retail first and hope that it is successful in the Tulsa metro.

The more new retail that is proven to be successful in the Tulsa area, the more likely that Okc won't seem like such a high risk?

Go Tulsa!!

In most cases Tulsa is a non-factor, unless they can justify some operational synergy between the two markets that mitigates the risk of Oklahoma City suggested by the numbers. It'll be a lot more local than that, down to a square mile or so.

Whole Foods could help because it puts the demographic some of the coveted retailers want in one place. It could show that the household demographic and density numbers don't apply here. Still, you will have to find someone who is willing to look at them and there just isn't that much motivation for that.

The failure of developers and city planning to steer developers into high density retail hurts as much as the housing density demographics. We probably could have solved this "problem" long ago with better development. The reality is that we don't live very close to each other and our shopping is just as spread out. So, right now, you can't even get traffic counts with viable demographics to offset the population density problem. In the end, we have a ton of retail space that just looks awful on paper.

[Larry OKC]

The last news story that was wrote up on Buy For Less mentioned that the NW Expressway & Portland store would recieve a remodel sometime in 2011. I am willing to bet they will probably offer some of the products and services that will be offered by Whole Foods.

I have always liked the deli and bakery in that store. When I worked at my old job I would frequent the deli their because they had a large variety of heat and eat meals.

They are in the midst of doing so. Recently added more murals and they recently expanded the Sushi/Specialty cheeses area (took part of the produce area). The Gourmet Deli is a few years old. Don't know what other plans they have or how extensive. But the whole idea of Gourmet/Specialty etc and Buy-4-Less seems to be an oxymoron.

[beshy]

when are we ever going to see a costco in okc, or are they waitin for the liquor laws to be changed to move in town, sams seem to be doing great especially the one on penn and memorial,
albuwuerque which is maller than omc has 3 costcos and at least 2 sams.

[Larry OKC]

So it sounds to me like Okc needs Tulsa to land new retail first and hope that it is successful in the Tulsa metro.

The more new retail that is proven to be successful in the Tulsa area, the more likely that Okc won't seem like such a high risk?

Go Tulsa!!

There have been many instances where that is exactly what happened. The perception being that Tulsa was trendier etc, so they would get it first. If it worked, then a few years later they would venture down the turnpike.

[Chautauqua]

I am all for boosterism, but really Rand(y)? The hyperbole machine is working overtime. Anthropologie is a coveted brand, but its just another national brand. Having one doesn't put OKC, or any other town for that matter, in the same retail category as Fifth Avenue in NY, Rodeo Drive in Los Angeles, or Michigan Ave. in Chicago. Come on, now.

“The Anthropologie brand encompasses inspirational and imaginative concepts such as innovation, optimism, beauty, style and discovery,” said Rand Elliott, president of Elliott + Associates Architects. “By bringing such an established (and) coveted retailer to our city — with stores on Fifth Avenue in New York City, in Chicago, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. — we are one step closer to developing Oklahoma City into the leading destination for chic retail.”

[semisimple]

I am all for boosterism, but really Rand(y)? The hyperbole machine is working overtime. Anthropologie is a coveted brand, but its just another national brand. Having one doesn't put OKC, or any other town for that matter, in the same retail category as Fifth Avenue in NY, Rodeo Drive in Los Angeles, or Michigan Ave. in Chicago. Come on, now.

OKC couldn't be much further from being a destination for "chic retail"--OKC doesn't even have an upscale department store, e.g. Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, Saks. We have all 3 of those here in Austin and almost all the "exclusive" chains OKC covets, and yet Austin can't compare to Dallas for shopping, and likewise LA and NYC are on another level relative to Dallas.

Forget comparing to the big boys, or even to cities like Austin or Columbus or Charlotte...OKC needs to catch up to the likes of Tulsa and Albuquerque first.

[ljbab728]

OKC couldn't be much further from being a destination for "chic retail"--OKC doesn't even have an upscale department store, e.g. Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, Saks. We have all 3 of those here in Austin and almost all the "exclusive" chains OKC covets, and yet Austin can't compare to Dallas for shopping, and likewise LA and NYC are on another level relative to Dallas.

Forget comparing to the big boys, or even to cities like Austin or Columbus or Charlotte...OKC needs to catch up to the likes of Tulsa and Albuquerque first.

Folks might want to keep in mind that Pete just locked another thread because of a similar discussion about this same subject.

[Chautauqua]

Folks might want to keep in mind that Pete just locked another thread because of a similar discussion about this same subject.

Missed that. Link??

[earlywinegareth]

One of the factors preventing OKC from landing upscale retail is misinterpretation of market data that shows low activity for high-end buying in OKC. But their data is skewed...the reason there isn't much high-end purchasing in OKC is because there isn't much high-end retail (marketing folks aren't the sharpest knives when it comes to interpreting data, trust me).

So what you have is a lot of OKCitians driving to Tulsa, driving to Dallas, to do their upscale shopping. I swear to God I heard an interview about a year ago of one of the marketing execs for Neiman who said this was a "no-no" for OKC and until that changed, OKC would never be on their list for expansion.

Someone with a little market intelligence needs to realize the OKC market is untapped and growing...realize a new emerging market will not show up in the historical sales data. They need to get out and do real market research.

[ljbab728]

Missed that. Link??

I'm sorry. I misspoke. The thread wasn't locked but the posts were deleted. I believe it was in the Chesapeake Empire thread.