LifeChurchTV

[Faith]

Does anyone here attend LifeChurchTV? If so how do you like it?

[osupa05]

I've been going there for approx 6 mo. and I love it! The very first time that I went, though, I must admit that I didn't like it at all... I thought it was too showy and that there was too much focus on the band! Boy, was my first impression wrong! After a while, I just sort of started going to the south campus, and now I love it! The praise and worship is loud with bright lights and dry ice effects, but the songs are awesome and the focus is on praising God! The message is always relevant to everyday life, and their values are to build up and send out... I haven't become involved in one yet, but there are many mission trip opportunities (local and abroad). If you have any specific questions feel free to ask!

[metro]

Love it, been going there about 6-7 years! Before it exploded worldwide. I go to the N. OKC campus

[Midtowner]

I'm not a big fan of the direction these churches are going. They seem less religious and more 'self help'. I also have my differences with their theology.

I've met Craig Groeschel (the pastor), and he's a pretty nice guy. Has a degree in finance...

I'm also not a huge fan of how they have been 'franchising', but as a Catholic, I don't know if I have room to talk there

[Keith]

Love it, been going there about 6-7 years! Before it exploded worldwide. I go to the N. OKC campus

Most of these churches, like LifeChurchTV, are more charismatic (which is great) than other churches. They have more praise music with praise bands, which is one of the best ways to reach the younger generation...teens - 30ish. I agree that the music is loud, however, that is the "in" thing right now. The special effects also add to the excitement of worship.

The main thing is that the bands are playing and singing praise songs that glorify God. Plus, the message is exciting and from the Word of God. I love to see people praising the Lord with their hands lifted up toward heaven.

Get this......last Friday evening, I took a group of youth from our church to listen to 3 local bands at a local church. Just so that I could protect myself, I brought my earplugs (Yeah, I know..I'm old). The music was loud, but it was enjoyable (with my earplugs). We were there from 8 pm until 11:30 PM., and the teenagers had a wonderful time. They were clapping, raising their hands toward heaven, and singing along with the band.

We need more churches like LifeChurchTV, that can reach the younger generation and keep them in touch with their Christian lives. Okcgoddess, I would highly recommend this church.

[Midtowner]

So Keith, I guess that confirms that you feel okay with this "consumer religion" that is becoming popular? It seems that religion is now marketing -- e.g. targetting audiences, cultivating audiences, etc. just the same as IBM or someone like that would do.

To me, that whole concept is a little foreign... of course, we still chant in latin at my church

[Keith]

So Keith, I guess that confirms that you feel okay with this "consumer religion" that is becoming popular? It seems that religion is now marketing -- e.g. targetting audiences, cultivating audiences, etc. just the same as IBM or someone like that would do.

To me, that whole concept is a little foreign... of course, we still chant in latin at my church

I don't consider it "consumer religion." I call it a Christ centered organization that is trying to reach out to audiences that have not been reachable before. It's not marketing, it is getting the message of God to more people who would not normally attend a denominational church. Face it...many people think church is boring, however, churches like LifeChurchTV are becoming popular and taking away the "boring" aspects of a worship service. If it brings more people to accept Christ, then yes, I am for it.

[Midtowner]

"Trying to reach out to audiences that have not been reachable before."

-- that's marketing. If I were going to try and sell 7-Up to Frenchmen, I'd also have to work on a way of connecting with the French consumer. I'm sure it'd be a lot different than it would be with the American consumer (it goes well with wine and cheese?)

Just because it's a religious organization doing it doesn't change that fact. There's nothing inherently evil about marketing. It is what it is, trying to repackage grandma's religion the TV generation is absolutely marketing.

That's not important though. This is: Is Christ here to entertain us or to be contemplated, emulated, and praised? Does 'Rock and Roll Jesus' do the wrong thing by morphing religion into something more entertaining and palatable for mass consumption, tithing, etc? As to this changing of the church to meet the needs of the ever-changing flock, when is enough enough? When does it cease to be praise and instead become a spectacle/entertainment venue? I think these establishments walk a fine line.

Turning religion into an entertainment/social gathering horribly misses the point IMHO.

[writerranger]

I'll be honest, my problem with these churches is the way they spend so much time talking about how their way of worship is so superior to the "old fogey" churches. I have heard them make fun of men wearing ties in church for example. They make fun of ritual and any other kind of worship that isn't "hip" enough. No offense to those enjoying these new churches, but I have heard them say these other things and frankly, it troubles me. I think they should be secure enough in their new "style" of worship than to resort to bashing more traditional church services.

[osupa05]

"Trying to reach out to audiences that have not been reachable before."

-- that's marketing. If I were going to try and sell 7-Up to Frenchmen, I'd also have to work on a way of connecting with the French consumer. I'm sure it'd be a lot different than it would be with the American consumer (it goes well with wine and cheese?)

Just because it's a religious organization doing it doesn't change that fact. There's nothing inherently evil about marketing. It is what it is, trying to repackage grandma's religion the TV generation is absolutely marketing.

That's not important though. This is: Is Christ here to entertain us or to be contemplated, emulated, and praised? Does 'Rock and Roll Jesus' do the wrong thing by morphing religion into something more entertaining and palatable for mass consumption, tithing, etc? As to this changing of the church to meet the needs of the ever-changing flock, when is enough enough? When does it cease to be praise and instead become a spectacle/entertainment venue? I think these establishments walk a fine line.

Turning religion into an entertainment/social gathering horribly misses the point IMHO.

I believe that Jesus came to be all things to all people... when he came to Earth he didn't select the pharisees or religious scholars to spread the love of God. He chose people like me.. the really rotten ones. The first church.. the one in Acts was completely different than any other religious service of their time... they weren't afraid to worship God with fire, and every day the church grew by leaps and bounds. I don't believe that churches like lifechurch are "selling God". I believe that we are doing everything short of sin to reach people... to tell them of this amazing, incomprehensible love and the gift of eternal life given by God through Christ alone. I think it's time to leave religion to the pharisees and be a living, breathing church on fire!

[writerranger]

I believe that Jesus came to be all things to all people... when he came to Earth he didn't select the pharisees or religious scholars to spread the love of God. He chose people like me.. the really rotten ones. The first church.. the one in Acts was completely different than any other religious service of their time... they weren't afraid to worship God with fire, and every day the church grew by leaps and bounds. I don't believe that churches like lifechurch are "selling God". I believe that we are doing everything short of sin to reach people... to tell them of this amazing, incomprehensible love and the gift of eternal life given by God through Christ alone. I think it's time to leave religion to the pharisees and be a living, breathing church on fire!

Unfortunately, too many preaching the "prosperity" gospel are living lives of wealth and splendor, and using their churches as entrepreneural vehicles. And, there is no denying that they are mostly found in the non-denominational entertainment churches. That's also not found in the church in Acts.

[Midtowner]

Write.. I know it's in the Bible somewhere.. the part where Christ gets driven around in a limo on Saturday from sermon to sermon? Somewhere towards the back I think.

[Karried]

I do think that churches have to evolve and meet the needs of changing society. It's an optional thing for most people - if they don't enjoy a church or get anything out of it, they can leave and go to another church or stop going altogether. I think the churches are smart in trying to keep their membership level high using methods that some may not be familiar. Reaching teens and young adults has always been a challenge I imagine.. this allows them to worship in a way that appeals to them. Yeah, I guess some could go overboard with pyrotechniques and megabands but as long as the message is getting across and people are praising God, I don't see the problem.

And church corruption has been around from the very beginning so I don't think the mega churches aren't creating this particular problem.

[Midtowner]

I don't think I suggested that they were corrupt.

And yes, churches do change for the times... I mean the Catholic church back in the 60's actually started doing mass in the vernacular (it used to be done in Latin). We aso invented church corruption, but no matter

I don't question the motives of Mr. Groeschel, but I do question the hearts of the attendees of the church. Do they feel as if they must be entertained in order to attend a praise & worship service? A friend of mine in college worked at Life Church as a full time video editor.. All I'm saying is that personally, I think that it leads Christians away from the true message of Christianity -- forgiveness, love, etc. and instead turns the religion into a spectacle/social event.

[osupa05]

Actually it's the message that keeps me going back! As I said before, I didn't like it the first time that I went... I thought that it was too showy... kind of along your line of thinking, Midtowner. But they truly preach Christ crucified and their emphasis is on equiping people with the power of Christ and sending them out to every nation, tounge and tribe.. to the four corners of the world! I believe that money is being used not to fund a wealthy lifestyle for the staff... if that were the case then there wouldn't be new campuses springing up all over the nation. If money was the motive, then I believe that he wouldn't have offerings where you are allowed to take from the bucket if you have a monetary need. Sure, it's a social event.. but Christ was a very social creature and even says to not give up fellowship with fellow Christians. He also knew that you can't live on fellowship alone and got away from the crowd to be alone with God, which we all need, as well... Sure, everything that the pastor says I may not a agree with... that's where searching the Bible and prayer comes into play... but he does back up his message with scripture... including the message of forgiveness!

[Faith]

Wow! Thank you everyone for the responses and opinions. I live about 1 mile from the LifeChurchTv in Edmond. My family has a strong hunger right now to get closer to God. We are going to LifeChurch this Sunday for our first time. My husband is very negative when it comes to churches because of the fake and hypocrite people who ruin the experience for him. This will be the first time for us to go in almost 6 years. My husband is a musician so hopefully this church can reach out to him. I hope we can enjoy this church as much as you have Osupa05.

Also I was wondering what the programs for the infants and children were like. But I guess we will find out.

[osupa05]

okcgoddes,sthey have a program called LifeKids (at least at the south okc campus... i'm sure they have the same or something similar to that at the edmond campus). It's looks like fun.. I've often been tempted to sneak in there, but I don't think I would pass as a kid!!! I hope that you have a great experience there... if you don't, just know that there are many different types of services offered by many different places that make up the body of Christ, aka the church! Just find one that preaches nothing but the Bible!

[writerranger]

Funny if you really think about it. This conversation has been going on for 2,000 years.

[Keith]

Wow! Thank you everyone for the responses and opinions. I live about 1 mile from the LifeChurchTv in Edmond. My family has a strong hunger right now to get closer to God. We are going to LifeChurch this Sunday for our first time. My husband is very negative when it comes to churches because of the fake and hypocrite people who ruin the experience for him. This will be the first time for us to go in almost 6 years. My husband is a musician so hopefully this church can reach out to him. I hope we can enjoy this church as much as you have Osupa05.

Also I was wondering what the programs for the infants and children were like. But I guess we will find out.

I think going to LifeChurch this Sunday is a great decision for you. Unfortunately, many people quit attending church because of the "fake" and "hypocritical" Christians. The good news is that most of the Christians that attend church are true believers, and live Christian lives 7 days a week.

I know many people who quit attending church because of the hypocrites. That's a cop out to me, because the hypocrites will be answering to God on Judgement day for their actions, and we will be judged by our own actions. I am certainly not going to let a hypocrite bring me down........I'm just going to pray for them.

I wish you the best and pray that your family gets back involved in church and that your husband enjoys the great worship and praise music that is played. It's not "entertainment," it is worship.

[jdsplaypin]

Writeranger, have you honestly heard a church bash another for wearing ties. Because we're on a lifechurch debate i need to clear up for everyone reading this post that Lifechurch would not tolerate such closed minded people to speak out for their congregation. I wear a suit/tie to lifechurch every sunday in Stillwater & i'm 21 years old. Just because some feel lifechurch is entertainment does not mean a sense of reference for Christ does not exist in the realm of people of all ages who enjoy a revolutionary new concept of church. Lifechurch does not "target" the correct age demographic to be considered a marketing business. I mean come on, who would seek out the college kids for tithing! Perhaps this church doesn't care about their financial return when they invest in a place like Stillwater. We're not exactly Edmond yuppies ya know.(no offense)Either way, the amount of success Stillwaters campus has had is compelling enough to build a new church home for us. Plans are being finalized.

[metro]

Interesting discussions here

The main thing is that the bands are playing and singing praise songs that glorify God.

Two comments I would like to add. First and foremost, church is not about people and their preferences. The main thing is that hundreds of people are being saved and lives changed every weekend at LIFE. 2 weeks ago, over 200 people were saved that weekend. That's powerful!! How many churches can say that. Christ called us to add unto his numbers daily. Most small churches I know haven't added in years.

Secondly, churches must continue to do things differently in a modern world to reach those who would not normally attend. Call it marketing if you will, and to some extent it is, but regardless, it works. You don't have to sell out your beliefs but you do have to change with the times, or get left behind. Christ never called us to be complacent in our faith, in fact, this is when we should worry the most if we are complacent and content. We should all be out of our comfort zones and suck up our own personal issues, because that is all they are, people's issues.

Craig has made it clear that he wants people to be "contributors" and not "consumers", whether they attend LIFE or not. That is the problem with the church as a whole in America, it is self centered and most people are consumers, wanting what they want out of church instead of pouring into it for others despite their own personal motivations

[Keith]

Interesting discussions here



Two comments I would like to add. First and foremost, church is not about people and their preferences. The main thing is that hundreds of people are being saved and lives changed every weekend at LIFE. 2 weeks ago, over 200 people were saved that weekend. That's powerful!! How many churches can say that. Christ called us to add unto his numbers daily. Most small churches I know haven't added in years.

Secondly, churches must continue to do things differently in a modern world to reach those who would not normally attend. Call it marketing if you will, and to some extent it is, but regardless, it works. You don't have to sell out your beliefs but you do have to change with the times, or get left behind. Christ never called us to be complacent in our faith, in fact, this is when we should worry the most if we are complacent and content. We should all be out of our comfort zones and suck up our own personal issues, because that is all they are, people's issues.

Craig has made it clear that he wants people to be "contributors" and not "consumers", whether they attend LIFE or not. That is the problem with the church as a whole in America, it is self centered and most people are consumers, wanting what they want out of church instead of pouring into it for others despite their own personal motivations

Very well said, metro. "You don't have to sell out your beliefs, but you do have to change with the times, or get left behind." Exactly. We should all get out of our comfort zones. Too many people want to know what the church can do for them, when they should be asking what they can do for the church.

It's interesting that you mention kneckties at church. God has always asked us to give him our first fruits and to look our best when we come together and worship Him. I have been a member of a southern baptist church for over 25 years, and we do not have a dress code. Why? Because we are located in an inner city, low income, neighborhood, that is rather poor. A nice shirt and a pair of nice slacks or nice jeans is the normal look at our church. Many older people wear suits and ties, however, many of the younger people can't afford suits and such.

I have been a youth leader in our church for over 6 years, and at this time, I am the "temporary" youth director until we can find a permanent one. Most of the teens that come to our church wear old blue jeans, t-shirts, and tennis shoes on Sunday morning. During the spring and summer, they wear flip flops. Sunday and Wednesday evening are very casual. Most adults wear nice slacks and a nice shirt, while others wear blue jeans and t-shirts. In the spring and summer, many people come wearing shorts (not short shorts).

The reason the youth wear what they wear is because none of them own dress pants, ties, or suits. Very few of the teenage girls own dresses. We have never, ever, turned anyone away because they didn't look "nice" enough. If that is the nicest thing they have to come and worship, then they are always welcome at our church.

Myself? I own one dress shirt, and two pairs of pants, so I am the one that attends church wearing a nice shirt, blue jeans, and Nikes. In the spring/summer, you will always see me in shorts. I feel if I try to over dress in any way, that the teenagers that I am trying to reach will think that I am too good for them because I have nicer clothes. My main focus is not clothes, but to see more of these teens that come from broken homes, accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

[metro]

I'm curious, where in the Bible does it say to look our best when we come together and worship Him. I could be wrong but I don't think that is in there. Jesus accepted people as they were and did not question them for their faith or for their attire. A good discussion about appropriate attire can be found at :time http://www.twopaths.com/faq_dress.htm , while this could be debated throughout the ages, the one thing that seems to make the most sense is to dress appropriate for ones time. In our time, jeans and a t-shirt seem to be acceptable.

[osupa05]

I think it's more based on the bringing Jesus our firstfruits (the best of the crop) verse... giving Him the best we have to offer... Yes, I believe he accepts us for who we are... we are all dirty (in every sense of the word), yet as Christians we have been washed clean by His blood.

[Keith]

I think it's more based on the bringing Jesus our firstfruits (the best of the crop) verse... giving Him the best we have to offer... Yes, I believe he accepts us for who we are... we are all dirty (in every sense of the word), yet as Christians we have been washed clean by His blood.

That's what I meant. There isn't anything in the Bible that talks about how to dress. Thanks, osupa05, for saying it the right way for me.