Originally Posted by
Spartan
Kerry, this is just frustrating me, so I'm going to try and explain this calmly without putting everything in all caps. I was in Bordeaux recently. In case you aren't aware, I'm living in Sweden at the moment. Trust me, I know Europe very well. In the last 2 months alone I've been to 14 countries, none of which were the U.S. or Canada. This is not my first time on the ground in Europe either, and trust me, I've studied the hell out of Europe before I got here, too.
You are using Google streetview screenshots to tell me what Europe is like. Do you see where that could be frustrating?
Furthermore, I am on the ground here studying urban design in countless cities. I have a weekly seminar on spacial relations of cities here. Most European cities, especially the parts with trams, are often 300-600 years old. I assure you that tram technology did not exist back then, no matter what you come across on Google, even if you come across something that says LOUIS the 16th put the trams in Bdx, it is false, don't believe it. Please. The simple truth is that European cities were designed with walking distance in mind, and they masterplanned cities to create a sense of the monumental. They played on the same sensory presence that modern urban planning is trying to "return to" today.
Actually, to clarify the point I made up earlier, most European cities prefer SUBWAYS for many reasons. First of all, it involves tearing up less on the surface. Second of all, it can serve larger numbers of people that way. These cities with endless transit budgets (for example, many have a yearly budget of $1 Billion with a 'B' just for the express purpose of building new metro stops) are going for the highest ridership numbers in the world, obviously American cities aren't there yet. For all the cities you show screenshots of trams, there are many much larger ones that mainly prefer the subway as the main mode of transportation. Off the top of my head, cities that mostly rely on subways (or metros): London, Paris, Moscow, Berlin, Warsaw, Madrid, Barcelona, Stockholm, Helsinki, St. Petersburg, Milan, Rome, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Prague, Vienna, Munich, Brussels, and countless more.
I can think of very few cities where the tram is the preferred mode of public transit. Amsterdam definitely, first and foremost. Here in Scandinavia, they're popular in Copenhagen, Oslo, and especially in Gothenburg. And yes, smaller French cities are also turning to the tram. But please realize that except in the case of Scandinavia which has "newer" cities for the most part, that these tram systems are much newer than their surroundings. It's not even close.
And lastly, many European cities actually have really bizarre spacial relationships with the trams. It's hard to explain, but in many cases, the trams really feel like they detract from the intended environment of a street, as it was designed hundreds of years ago. Often they have chosen broader thoroughfares for trams and created awkward islands in the middle of roads, or sometimes they weave through awkward-spaced gaps in the city.
So in Europe, the tram serves as a very functional mode of transportation, and cars are always full of people. But there are few opportunities for "TOD" because the cities are already built. Most neighborhoods in the centers are already gentrified. And so on. They didn't have urban renewal in Europe. They didn't have the white flight. Suburbs are actually really bad places, here. There is new construction, but for the most part, the historic city centers have been religiously preserved. It's an entirely different ballgame, Kerry.
So do you really want to play this game of, "For OKC, let's ignore Portland and Seattle, and focus more on Bordeaux" ?? You just sound so incredulous, and there are countless more important things for us to be talking about in this thread than your obsession against couplets. I remember when I first told you "oh, and the system will be couplets, that's already a done deal." Your reaction was at that time, again, incredulous. You insisted that there was no way they would go with couplets because it wasn't possible to do. Well, guess what, they chose couplets. And furthermore, I hope you'll come around when the system is built so you can watch it work its magic. It's going to be great.
Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses
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I crossed between Europe and Asia over the Bosphorus on a daily basis for three months.
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