Downtown needs large grocery store

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Again, this is not about competing with big box culture or moving it downtown. It is about diversifying the housing mix in Oklahoma City and giving the relatively small population that wants urban living a choice to stay in OKC.

bdp, Obviously jack is pulling our collective chain with remarks such as "Create some diversity down there. Once we get the Wal-Mart and Home Depot in place, Ross, Old Navy, Shoe Carnival, TJ Maxx, Office Depot, etc. will follow. What a retail explosion there will be. Give all the thanks to Wal-Mart for starting the retail boom in downtown. "

I try to take what people say at face value and if I disagree, make some sort of argument for my point. I don't expect people to be jacking around and hurling stuff out there just for the hell of it, as is the case with ol' jack'o.

[BDP]

bdp, Obviously jack is pulling our collective chain with remarks such as...

I assume he's less than genuine, but I decided to participating in the excercise, anyway. The fact is that, whether he's serious or not, there are and have been a lot of thick skull and lazy approaches to developing downtown. I figured why not use Jack's bait to work through some of those arguments for which there very well may be a real debate one day.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

I guess we could adopt a new term . . . . "Jack Bait"

[The Old Downtown Guy]

These types of developments could actually kill the real estate value for housing downtown. Most developers are anticipating above average price/sq foot based on the uniqueness on the area and lifestyle.

I failed to mention that I totally agree on your point here bdp. And that goes for design as well. Tilt-up concrete unarticulated strip malls with acres of parking out front are ugly anywhere, but even more obnoxious and out of place near downtown.

[Patrick]

I'm thinking Jack stated in another thread that he was trying to stir debate on by playing devil's advocate.

[streuli]

This topic is near and dear to my heart as my wife and I both work downtown, live in Edgemere Park, and drive halfway to Kansas to do our grocery shopping. We resist giving Wal-Mart our money, and Homeland just doesn't cut it. I've been pushing for an answer for more than a year because while I understand retail follows rooftops, it still seems to me that a decent grocery store in downtown or Midtown would be support not just by downtown residents, but those in Mesta Park, Heritage Hills, Edgemere, Crown Heights, etc., who, like us, may be willing to pay a little more for a Whole Foods or Alberstsons experience.

I pulled the reporter card on WHole Foods some time ago. Interestingly, the company's expansion plans are directed at the Midwest (including Oklahoma). They told me, personally, that OKC was a possibility in the not-so-distant future.

There are plenty of people chasing a downtown grocery store in real ways.

We've looked into it several times. Nearly a year ago, the responses were as follows:

Downtown's grocery catch-22

Dave Lopez, president of Downtown OKC Inc., makes no bones about it: Grocery stores are on his wish list. "This is something all of us would like ... 02/21/05


Austin chain may be interested in OKC

Whole Foods, a store specializing in organic and natural foods, is always looking for new locations, said media director Amy Hopfensperger. The ... 02/21/05

[osupa05]

I think I would definitely be up for Whole Foods finding a home downtown! I'm not a health nut by any means, but it might help? Who knows....? What I did read recently was that they sponser a "Single's Night"... that might help all of us in the Single's Lounge! We could make it the new OKCtalk single's event of the month!

[Pete]

I'm not convinced having a Whole Foods in or near downtown would please most the residents in that area.

Up until a few months ago, the closest market to my house was a Whole Foods and the next closest was a couple of miles away. I went in there a few times and found their prices to be pretty high and most their products uninteresting. I'm a relatively health conscious person but not really on the organic / healthfood bandwagon.

I wonder how many people in OKC are?


Interestingly, Whole Foods moved down the road to a bigger location and Trader Joe's took their old spot. Now, I'm in TJ's at least once a week.


My point is, even if there was a Whole Foods in the area, the large majority of people would still be driving to it and I'm not convinced most of them wouldn't rather drive a few more miles to a more traditional grocer that offered a bigger selection and certainly better prices.


Of course, we'll take what we can get and I'd love to see Whole Foods come to downtown OKC but if I had my choice there are other places (Trader Joe's for one) that I'd pick first.

[zuluwarrior0760]

I have always been amazed that with the entrepreneurial spirit
as it is in Bricktown, that there isn't anything down there that
would qualify as a reincarnation of the old 1950's soda fountain....
a place where you could pull up a bar stool and have a greasy
burger basket with a truly handmade milkshake.......

Combine a small grocery store with a TRUE reincarnation of the soda
fountain concept, not an IHOP or CHILIS version of a soda fountain.......
and you'd have a draw even if the groceries were a bit more expensive
than at wally world.....

[ibda12u]

Hmm... I think you're onto something zulu. Or maybe we can get a mini crest

[BDP]

Combine a small grocery store with a TRUE reincarnation of the soda
fountain concept, not an IHOP or CHILIS version of a soda fountain.......
and you'd have a draw even if the groceries were a bit more expensive
than at wally world.....

mmmm... added value... now we're thinking.

Sort of like Nichols Hills Drug Store, but make it a small grocer as well.

[osupa05]

What all does Kamp's have? I really need to visit there!

[The Old Downtown Guy]

This topic is near and dear to my heart as my wife and I both work downtown, live in Edgemere Park, and drive halfway to Kansas to do our grocery shopping. We resist giving Wal-Mart our money, and Homeland just doesn't cut it. I've been pushing for an answer for more than a year because while I understand retail follows rooftops, it still seems to me that a decent grocery store in downtown or Midtown would be support not just by downtown residents, but those in Mesta Park, Heritage Hills, Edgemere, Crown Heights, etc., who, like us, may be willing to pay a little more for a Whole Foods or Alberstsons experience.

You are right-on steuli. A WHOLE FOODS would attract a lot of customers from all of the close-in neighborhoods. I would go further than that . . . and say that it would be a destination store and pull from the entire metro. Plus, lots of downtown workers would be dropping by on their way home.

A lot of people who haven't shopped in a Whole Foods refer to it as a health food store or an organic store, but that simply isn't the case. What they do offer is a wide range of products that are good quality. Much of their vegatable and produce is organic, but lots of it isn't. They display them side by side and let the consumer make the choice. I wouldn't say that they are high priced either. Granted they offer some superior quality goods and those will command higher prices, but at the same time, they have a good selection of house brand items and lots of bulk grains, beans etc. which are priced very competitvely. So all in all, I would say their prices are lower than Crescent Market and for the most part in line with Albertsons on comperable items. Plus, they would open with lots of specials to attract the more price concious shoppers as well.

The most amazing thing at a Whole Foods is the quality of their staff. Well groomed obviously bright and cheerful people come up and ask if you need any help. And there are always people behind the fresh food cases to answer questions or fill special requests. They offer a lot of information about their business philosophy, their employment policies and what they sell. It is definitely worth checking out their website www.wholefoods.com

I have not been to a Trader Joes, but I have gone through their website very carefully and their focus seems to be on offering good variety at competitive prices. Either as staple items on their shelves or by buying in quantity at below market prices and distributing those items as specials that may or may not find a place into their regular mix.

Here is their mission statement off of their website. www.traderjoes.com

TRADER JOE'S: A UNIQUE GROCERY STORE

Our Mission...
At Trader Joe's, our mission is to bring our customers the best food and beverage values and the information to make informed buying decisions. There are more than 2000 unique grocery items in our label, all at honest everyday low prices. We work hard at buying things right: Our buyers travel the world searching for new items and we work with a variety of suppliers who make interesting products for us, many of them exclusive to Trader Joe’s. All our private label products have their own "angle," i.e., vegetarian, Kosher, organic or just plain decadent, and all have minimally processed ingredients.


It will be interesting to see what The City can make happen though their market study and recruitment process. My first choice is Whole Foods with Trader Joes a close second.