Streetcar

[okclee]

Great! .....Urban Pioneer, truly great work.

Can you give a short summary of the next step?

[Doug Loudenback]

Approved unanimously.

Well, actually, make that "Report received," and that would be correct.

[Urban Pioneer]

Great! .....Urban Pioneer, truly great work.

Can you give a short summary of the next step?

Well basically, "receiving" is almost as good as "approved" as it provides direction to city staff, Project 180, and allows us to move forward and hire an engineer to start designing a system.

Next steps:

1. Ratify ADG's schedule at the April 19th meeting to maintain our momentum and position us to let funds to hire a professional engineer to start designing.

2. Make final decisions about the Hub and Convention Center Locations this month.

3. Go back to Council with "Phase 1b" of the streetcar line

4. Start estimating costs

[okclee]

Would you say that this approved route "Phase 1a" is fairly safe from having any engineering problems?

Or do you think there could be a few areas along this route the engineers will have problems with?

[David]

Is there a timeline for when the request for Federal funds will be sent in?

[BoulderSooner]

Is there a timeline for when the request for Federal funds will be sent in?

the deadline as i understand it is in Sept 2011 for FY 2012

[Urban Pioneer]

Would you say that this approved route "Phase 1a" is fairly safe from having any engineering problems?

Or do you think there could be a few areas along this route the engineers will have problems with?

I think that as with any streetcar project, the closer you get to the "core" of most downtown, the more involved the utility relocation. So yes, there will probably be challenges. They may be dealt with by simply changing lanes, but there will probably be something we will have to pay to have moved that will be difficult. However, I believe you should try to avoid "twists and turns" a route to go around obstacles thus preserving the expedient service experience by riders.

Right now, the two biggest, most costly obstacles that we have identified are the Sheridan and Reno bridges under the railroad if they need modification.

[Urban Pioneer]

the deadline as i understand it is in Sept 2011 for FY 2012

This is correct, I believe it is Sept 31st. They are scrambling to properly finish the AA so that we can apply for funds in both this fiscal year and the next.

[Hutch]

This is correct, I believe it is Sept 31st. They are scrambling to properly finish the AA so that we can apply for funds in both this fiscal year and the next.

Just to be clear, the September deadline is to be able to qualify for remaining FY 2011 Small Start funds. The FTA has no official deadlines for making Small Starts applications. However, to qualify for FY 2011 funds, you have to apply and be approved within that fiscal year, which ends September 30th. If we miss the FY 2011 funding cycle, we can still apply for the FY 2012 funding cycle, which begins October 1st.

[brianinok]

Can someone point me to the page of this thread that has the proposed route since I don't see it in the newsok article that mentions it was approved.

[dmoor82]

Can someone point me to the page of this thread that has the proposed route since I don't see it in the newsok article that mentions it was approved.

^^here you go,not from this forum but it works! http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-...544491.acrobat

[Snowman]

Did they give any hints as why they chose to jump down to the boulevard instead of Reno which seemed more natural to me, with talk of having a possible loop highlighted over to walker by way of reno and sheridan it seemed like it would be a natural extension to add another loop over to near byers/Lincoln especially since the north bricktown location kept getting thrown around for the convention center, the diversion south does not seem to gain better access to anything yet. It may be so they can close Reno for event nights, the reno bridge was an issue, hub location or how they want the system to develop; it just seems like it will be making normal use more of a hassle the rest of the time (or until the phase that makes sense gets here).

[warreng88]

From the JR:

Proposed streetcar route submitted to OKC Council
By Brian Brus
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2837
Posted: 04:58 PM Tuesday, April 5, 2011

OKLAHOMA CITY – The first four miles of a streetcar system through downtown Oklahoma City was submitted for City Council members’ consideration Tuesday.

The proposed spine of the streetcar route, to be funded with a temporary sales tax under MAPS 3, connects the Midtown district slightly northwest of downtown to the Bricktown entertainment district to the southeast. The plan also identifies potential extensions for a total of five to six miles, depending on other factors and costs as the project develops, officials said.

The $130 million project is part of a larger $777 million MAPS 3 package of infrastructure developments passed by city voters in 2009.

Other projects include a 70-acre park and downtown convention center in the core of the city, as well as wellness centers and trails in other areas.

The transit portion of MAPS 3 also allows for the possibility of a downtown transit hub to link the streetcar with other commuter rail and bus systems. City officials are seeking federal transportation money for commuter rail to expand the reach of the transportation system, although they warned such additional development would be many years away.

A typical modern streetcar usually uses a fixed, electric-rail system at street level, shares a lane with other vehicles and operates in high-pedestrian areas to link riders with major activity centers. Central Oklahoma Transportation & Parking Authority officials said that unlike older trolley systems, modern streetcar technology allows it to operate quietly, smoothly and efficiently in harmony with other vehicles.

The route identified Tuesday is the product of months of public input and committee review of alternate possibilities. MAPS Program Manager Eric Wenger said a consultant will likely be hired this summer for additional planning and engineering analysis before the route is finalized.

“We want to make sure that the route makes a lot more sense when we start talking about other things like economic development potential,” Wenger said. “But at least it’s a starting point.”

MAPS streetcar subcommittee member Jill Adler called the route revealed Tuesday a “spur to greater things.”

“After we get this route going and get the streetcar going, our focus can move on to an even more extensive and usable system for the entire city,” Adler said.

Jeff Bezdek, who has served on several subcommittees involved in the issue, said that a grocery store that is likely to be placed downtown will complement the streetcar’s popularity.

“Being able to connect greater downtown to grocery services is something that I think will resonate with the community broadly,” he said.

The route would go as far north as NW 13th Street, then down Broadway Avenue to Sheridan Avenue, loop through Bricktown as far south as SE Third Street, then up Robinson Avenue to NW 11th Street to finish the circuit.

“The route is subject to change pending the completion of the Intermodal Hub Study and the MAPS 3 Convention Center site selection study,” City Manager Jim Couch said in his report to council members.

The submitted route also provides guidelines for coordinating work with the ongoing Project 180 streetscape renovations throughout downtown, so that utility line relocations can be kept to a minimum.

The council did not act on the plan Tuesday. Mayor Mick Cornett called the submission a show of the city’s intentions.

“It’s a current intention. It’s very early in the process, but we do have a lot of overlapping projects and it’s nice for staff to have some direction, even though the council is not committing itself to any specific route at this time,” Cornett said.

[betts]

There are a couple of arguments for bringing the streetcar down to the boulevard, although that's in the dotted line part of the route, which is still not completely defined. First of all, if so, it will stop across the street from the city park. It is possible that the convention center will be along the boulevard, and that's another important reason to potentially use it. In addition, we're not completely sure we can pass under any existing railroad bridges. There is some concern that the RR simply won't allow it, or that the cost of doing so will be prohibitive. Since the railroad bridge over the boulevard hasn't been built yet, we know that it can be built to accomodate a streetcar.

[mcca7596]

So, Project 180 is currently working at a fairly quick pace on redoing Robinson east of the memorial.

I suppose there is not enough information about the technical aspects of the route that they could at least make it easy to redo when the streetcar work begins?

[LakeEffect]

Well basically, "receiving" is almost as good as "approved" as it provides direction to city staff, Project 180, and allows us to move forward and hire an engineer to start designing a system.

I disagree. It means the report was received. Unless it was followed by a specific Council action to tell staff to follow the report's guidance, it is just a secondary document.

[betts]

If the report were not received, we could not hire an engineer. Without the ability to hire an engineer, we could not go forward. But, once the route has been studied and recommendations made by the engineers, changing the route would require a new set of engineering studies. So, if engineering reports are acceptable, it's unlikely the route will be changed.

[Urban Pioneer]

If the report were not received, we could not hire an engineer. Without the ability to hire an engineer, we could not go forward. But, once the route has been studied and recommendations made by the engineers, changing the route would require a new set of engineering studies. So, if engineering reports are acceptable, it's unlikely the route will be changed.

Exactly. This is how things are done at the city. Cafe is technically right, but Phase 1A is unlikely to be changed at this point.

[Spartan]

If you're not hiring an engineer until this summer, how could you possibly make it before Sept. 31?

[Steve]

Cafe, you are bringing facts into a discussion. You are now condemned to be part of "the conspiracy."
BTW: Cafe is right. It was received. That's it. It doesn't imply an endorsement or approval of the routes by the city council.
#30#

[Spartan]

Well ideally than can now hire an engineer sooner than this summer and get the ball rolling even further. Just imagine all the questions you can ask the engineer, Steve. Keep in mind before that this is still a process that is unofficial and without an engineer working on the project, just a committee narrowing things down.

P.S. Jeff, Betts, Hutch, et al.: Please make "being responsible to Steve Lackmeyer" part of the job description! I kid, I kid...

[betts]

Spartan, if you're asking about Sept. 31, I think you're referring to the possibility of obtaining federal monies to support extending the streetcar route. Members of the AA committee can correct me if need be, but I believe what's required to be eligible is an environmental impact study, not an engineering study. I'm not privy to the details of how we are approaching obtaining federal funding, but at City Council this week it was noted that we are moving forward on that application and would likely be able to apply for funding this fiscal year.

As far as what it means for the City Council to receive the plans for the streetcar route, I can only say there was no criticism of the route by Council. Several people expressed interest in/concern for the possibility of the route being extended and the importance of positioning ourselves to obtain federal funding. Councilman White expressed his concerns that we improve mass transit in more than the core of the city. But no one suggested we have the engineers study anything but the proposed route or suggested there were problems with it, which I believe is tacit approval of it as it stands, barring findings by the engineers that would preclude using part of the route.

[Spartan]

Spartan, if you're asking about Sept. 31, I think you're referring to the possibility of obtaining federal monies to support extending the streetcar route. Members of the AA committee can correct me if need be, but I believe what's required to be eligible is an environmental impact study, not an engineering study. I'm not privy to the details of how we are approaching obtaining federal funding, but at City Council this week it was noted that we are moving forward on that application and would likely be able to apply for funding this fiscal year.

That's exactly what I was asking about. Thanks for the info. Didn't realize you didn't need an engineering study to apply for money from Uncle Sam...interesting.

[LakeEffect]

Cafe, you are bringing facts into a discussion. You are now condemned to be part of "the conspiracy."
BTW: Cafe is right. It was received. That's it. It doesn't imply an endorsement or approval of the routes by the city council.
#30#

Being as I work for "The Man", I am always part of the conspiracy.

[BoulderSooner]

As far as what it means for the City Council to receive the plans for the streetcar route, I can only say there was no criticism of the route by Council. Several people expressed interest in/concern for the possibility of the route being extended and the importance of positioning ourselves to obtain federal funding. Councilman White expressed his concerns that we improve mass transit in more than the core of the city. But no one suggested we have the engineers study anything but the proposed route or suggested there were problems with it, which I believe is tacit approval of it as it stands, barring findings by the engineers that would preclude using part of the route.

these are my thought as well from watching the council meeting