Midtown

[TStheThird]

They are going to start roasting their own coffee.

[metro]

So basically the info you have metro is premature and well, wrong. But by all means, keep giving us these awesome bits of in-the-know information. Now where is that rolling eyes emoticon...

No, the company I'm referring to was seeking the same space, my guess is that CS had the competitive edge since theyd already been leasing from Mason for 3 years, the company im referencing will look elsewhere in AA. I'm working in on the deal so will announce when I can, that's it.

[mcca7596]

"Three developers discuss efforts in former 'slums'"

"The conversion of the old Hadden Hall into apartments at NW 10 and Hudson is almost complete, he said, and leasing is under way for the adjoining Packard Building, which will be home to an imaging company and a restaurant."

http://newsok.com/three-developers-d...rticle/3554046

Somewhat bittersweet that there is still no retail, but an imaging company and a restaurant sound good to me!

[metro]

It's unbelievable there is no retail, doubt they've tried hard.

[betts]

I don't think anyone wants to be one of the first. It's like the wildebeestes crossing the Mara River during the great migration in Africa....they mill around and wait for someone else to prove it's safe. They won't cross until a few zebras do it and survive. Then they all jump in.

[Kerry]

Until downtown can get a unified landlord or management company in a concentrated area there will be very little retail. Retailers want to go where other retailers are and without a single landlord that can work multiple deals at the same with consistency, retail is going to be a hard sale.

[mcca7596]

Good point with centralized locations Kerry. Other than that, in terms of downtown population, what will be the tipping point? 5000, 10000 or more people until the demand is too strong to say no to retail? I really believe having a single name brand clothing store that is new to the region would pull in many people from the suburbs.

[BG918]

Until downtown can get a unified landlord or management company in a concentrated area there will be very little retail. Retailers want to go where other retailers are and without a single landlord that can work multiple deals at the same with consistency, retail is going to be a hard sale.

Very true, and even in that case it is difficult. Denver, with a much larger and busier downtown, has the Pavilions, which is basically a downtown mall, and it has struggled in recent years. I did just see that they landed an H&M which will fill a large vacancy left when Virgin Records moved out in 2009.

[onthestrip]

Residents. It's all about getting more downtown residents. Won't see much retail until there are many more dt dwellers, plain and simple. Even if you had the same landlord for a large chunk or property it's unlikely that they'd be able to lure a handful of good tenants to dt yet.

[Kerry]

Residents. It's all about getting more downtown residents. Won't see much retail until there are many more dt dwellers, plain and simple. Even if you had the same landlord for a large chunk or property it's unlikely that they'd be able to lure a handful of good tenants to dt yet.

I guess it all depends on what kind of retail downtown OKC wants. I am not sure that has been decided yet. However, retail is not rocket science and the solution is not hard to figure out. Implementing the solution is a different matter. Also, we need to seperate 'retail' from 'services'. A lot of people tend to lump the two together. Downtown OKC needs professional services just as much as it needs retail but getting professional services is different than getting retail.

If you are holding out hope for independent retailers moving into individual buildings all owned by different people you will be sorely dissapointed. When you see these empty store fronts along AA and other areas, they are better suited for professional services (barber shop, beauty salon, law offices, day spa, travel agent, financial services, insurance agents, doctors offices, dentist, etc). However, in an urban environment those types of businesses require near-by residents.

Retail works best when they congregate near each other, have access to foot traffic or large parking lots,and deal with a single management company. Destination retail doesn't require anyone to live near by.

[Kerry]

Good point with centralized locations Kerry. Other than that, in terms of downtown population, what will be the tipping point? 5000, 10000 or more people until the demand is too strong to say no to retail? I really believe having a single name brand clothing store that is new to the region would pull in many people from the suburbs.

Like I said, it depends on the type of retail. If you go with a national retailers you don't need anyone living downtown. If you want mom and pop dress shops and used book stores you are going to need 25,000 or more people living within 1 mile.

[ZYX2]

Actually Kerry, used book shops can be a huge attraction to people from miles around. I don't think you realize how many people would love to shop at a used book shop. Many people (including myself) like them better than regular book stores.

[MikeOKC]

Actually Kerry, used book shops can be a huge attraction to people from miles around. I don't think you realize how many people would love to shop at a used book shop. Many people (including myself) like them better than regular book stores.

There used to be several downtown. Now, I have a hard time thinking of any on the north side of town other than Aladdin at NW 50th and May. Nice store now being kept open by a group of book lovers hoping just to cover their costs because they love books. I don't know about the southside - is BookBeat still open?

[Spartan]

Well, the southside now has Half-Price Books, which I think is testament to the interest in used books.

[Kerry]

There used to be several downtown.

This.

[soonerguru]

Wait. What? I thought we already had downtown retail. Didn't Bass Pro kick start a retail revolution?

Oh, nevermind.

[okclee]

Until downtown can get a unified landlord or management company in a concentrated area there will be very little retail. Retailers want to go where other retailers are and without a single landlord that can work multiple deals at the same with consistency, retail is going to be a hard sale.

I thought that Lower Bricktown was supposed to be the concentrated area with a single management company?

[Kerry]

I thought that Lower Bricktown was supposed to be the concentrated area with a single management company?

Isn't all the space in Lower Bricktown full?

[mcca7596]

So basically, we've got to wait another 10 years probably or hope that something like Hogan's original Bricktown Village plan could be built on the east side of Bricktown that is urban in design and has contiguous properties owned by the same developer.

[MikeOKC]

Well, the southside now has Half-Price Books, which I think is testament to the interest in used books.

You're right. I didn't think about Half-Price Books. They're in Country Club Plaza at NW 63rd and May on the northside. I don't like the chain-feel of HPB so I didn't even think of them as being a "used book shop" though they certainly are. I liked the idea of them coming here when they opened, but I've heard of them being nicknamed Half Price Crooks because of the lowball offers on stuff they buy. Amazon actually will buy your books back for more than HPB (with Amazon Gift Certificate money). If Amazon is currently buying your book title, you'll see some text on the lower right side that says, "Get a $1.36 (or whatever amount they are offering) Amazon.com Gift Card - trade here." With several books you can rack up a pretty decent deal - you print out the pre-paid shipping label and your good to go. At any rate, they pay more than HPB.

[Kerry]

So basically, we've got to wait another 10 years probably or hope that something like Hogan's original Bricktown Village plan could be built on the east side of Bricktown that is urban in design and has contiguous properties owned by the same developer.

Maybe. The Ford dealer site would have been a good start if done properly. It is nearly 6 full city blocks with one owner. A 2 or 3 story retail complex with a hotel and residential tower on top would have been a very good start. You could probably get 50 to 75 national retailers in a multi-level development on the Ford site. There is enough room at the Ford site to do this:

http://www.santanarow.com/

Hopefully C2S can put a lot of land in a single developers hands and then pray it doesn't turn out like Lower Bricktown.

[mcca7596]

Maybe. The Ford dealer site would have been a good start if done properly.

You say this as if it is a done deal that it will be the convention center site. Any reason?

[/QUOTE]http://www.santanarow.com/[QUOTE]

I like that. Another place that I wish we could do a small scale version of would be Country Club Plaza in Kansas City.

http://www.countryclubplaza.com/Index.htm

[Kerry]

You say this as if it is a done deal that it will be the convention center site. Any reason?

The Ford site would the worst possible place for a convention center, which means that is where OKC will put it.

[Spartan]

I wish we could get the input of the ULI on this. They never considered that and I would really like to know what they think. I'd like for them to address that particular superblock cluster and give us a good strategy for that region of downtown.

I am trying to make time for myself to just sit down and visualize this and spend time analyzing it more. Maybe it could be a good solution, oh who knows. I know what I would still LIKE to see on the Ford dealership site. I also know that what I'd like to see on that site could not reasonably occur on any of the other 3 sites including the Cox site. So in the interest of opening up the best private development opportunities, I do think my knee-jerk reaction against the Ford site is pretty right.

[Kerry]

If the City came to me and said, "Kerry, we just can't figure this out, you decide." I would put it in East Bricktown on the lot between Byers and Lincoln. If I need more room I would have it span over Lincoln onto the space between Lincoln and I-235. The Convention Hotel would go on the big parking lot across the street.