New stores in store for OKC

[poe]

It'd be nice if some of these stores would locate in 50 Penn Place. Could be a good rebirth.

[Spartan]

50 Penn is dead. Put a fork in it.

[ljbab728]

50 Penn is dead. Put a fork in it.

As far as a good retail location, you're correct, Spartan. The building is hardly dead though. It's still in an excellent location for office space with a little appropriate retail thown in.

[Spartan]

Right. They're actually replacing the lost 2nd floor retails with more...office. Which is probably what they'll replace the lost 1st floor retail with eventually.

[ljbab728]

Right. They're actually replacing the lost 2nd floor retails with more...office. Which is probably what they'll replace the lost 1st floor retail with eventually.

And with some retail to service those in the offices, it will be fine.

[betts]

I've heard almost everyone left there, with possibly the exception of Full Circle, is looking to move. Route 66 is a great store, but I always forget about it because 50 Penn just doesn't enter my consciousness anymore.

I heard yesterday from someone who has a business there that Anthropologie is going into Classen Curve, but the person telling me wasn't sure if there would be new construction, and it is going to be in the Curve area but not one of the current stores, or if they've figured out how to make one of the existing buildings work.

[Rover]

50 Penn is dead. Put a fork in it.

Not hardly. Maybe as a shopping center, but then it never was a very dynamic retail center. When it was built there were hardly any real high end retail locations. Balliets kept the place alive for many years, but that was because Balliets was a low traffic but important destination store which didn't rely on other stores to draw customers. 50 Penn is reverting to what its natural use should have always been...office.

[theparkman81]

I think that any of these stores will be cool to have, but i wonder if cotsco will be coming here or not.

[EricGarcia]

Dick's Sporting Goods will probably move into OKC soon as they are advertising for bids on March 15 for a new store in Broken Arrow.

http://dodgeprojects.construction.co...VVviewprod.htm

[okclee]

Thanks for the info.

Once again Okc plays second string to Tulsa for landing new retail for the state of Oklahoma.

[Spartan]

I think Tulsa is just more proven as far as retail markets go at this point.

[metro]

Thanks for the info.

Once again Okc plays second string to Tulsa for landing new retail for the state of Oklahoma.

Once again, Tulsa has better population DENSITY numbers and probably always will unless OKC deannexes our rural land

[okclee]

Really?

In 2011, retail executives don't have a better reading on Okc than pop density numbers?

5 years ago I would agree, but 2011 with countless of other ways to measure a market yet retail execs refuse to ignore?

There must be other reasons besides pop density, Tulsa is doing something better in new retail recruitment.

[Pete]

Maybe as a shopping center, but then it never was a very dynamic retail center

In the late 70's through the mid-80's 50 Penn had the most impressive array of high-end retail and restaurants ever assembled in one place in OKC.

It was completely full in terms of leasing and also activity. It was simply the place to shop and also hosted tons of events (parties of all sorts, fund-raisers, fashion shows, botanical displays, etc.) It was common for people to go spend a better part of a day out there, shopping and eating.

There hasn't been anything like it since.

I don't think it will ever come back, just wanted to point out that at one time it was absolutely raging.

Here were some of the tenants (I'm sure there were many more I can't remember):

Orbach's (men's, women's and Varsity Shop)
Harold's (plus Old School store)
Cyrk & Co. (women's)
Lynn David (shoes)
Ralph Lauren
Polo Country Store
Pistachio's (restaurant)
Magic Pan (restaurant)
Gramophone (high-end audio)
St. John's (women's)
Volbrecth's (women's)
Bag & Baggage (luggage)
Jordan Jewels
Alexi Jewelers
Park & Co. (men's wear)
Ellis of Edinborough (custom tailor)
Sooner Federal Bank
Interurban Restaurant
Urban Market (restaurant)
Pageboy Maternity
Applefields (housewares and gifts)
Robert Douglass (gowns and formal wear)
Williams-Sonoma (housewares)
Calla (restaurant)
Mui's (home & accessories)
Fitzhugh's (gifts)
Legacy (jewelry)
Bentley Hedges Travel
Shearson Lehman Brothers
The Gift Tree
Peppermint Fudge (kid's clothing)
Jaeger (women's)
Talbot's (women's)
Ann Taylor (women's)

[adaniel]

Really?

In 2011, retail executives don't have a better reading on Okc than pop density numbers?

5 years ago I would agree, but 2011 with countless of other ways to measure a market yet retail execs refuse to ignore?

There must be other reasons besides pop density, Tulsa is doing something better in new retail recruitment.

Well if you believe the most recent economic stats Tulsa County households make about $5000 more than their counterparts in Oklahoma County. Thats not to suggest that this area is dirt poor (although truthfully speaking both areas are a bit on the low end when it comes to incomes), but a lot of this area's weath is spread out into Cleveland and Canadian Counties. Which comes back to the issue of density...

As much as I hate to admit this, Tulsa generally beats OKC in every measure when looking at the things retailers need. Give it 10 years and that may change.

[okclee]

Why is it that everyone but retail execs, know that Okc is spread out both in square miles and with it's pockets of higher income areas?

When will retail execs start to truly understand the makeup and layout of Okc?

It doesn't seem that difficult if you have all of the information to look at and you truly know what to look for.

[adaniel]

Why is it that everyone but retail execs, know that Okc is spread out both in square miles and with it's pockets of higher income areas?

When will retail execs start to truly understand the makeup and layout of Okc?

It doesn't seem that difficult if you have all of the information to look at and you truly know what to look for.

I'm not so sure its that simple. Let me explain.

I'm pretty close to someone who works for a large retail operation out of Dallas. They often have to do market studies for their store expansions, either for new or existing stores. They are pretty close to my age (early to mid twenties). They are often overloaded with ridiculous deadlines and are grossy underpaid (i.e., not a lot of motivation to "dig deep"). When the higher ups says that they want to look at expanding into market X, they only have time to slap together only the most basic report detailing overall market trends, demographics, statistics, etc. Nothing is super fancy. Oftentimes they pull the info off off Google or Wikipedia. Only then once the higher ups are convinced from this brief report does the process move to a more specific site selection process.

This is just what I've been told and it could vary from company to company. With that in mind, if this is indeed standard practice than I would bet that OKC performs dismally in this process. Our "first glace" demographics are pretty poor and, thanks to all of the sprawl, have been for sometime. Its wishful thinking to think that companies across the country will somehow make an exception for OKC given all of our positive press. Thats why the Chamber and the State Department of Commerce need to get a bit more aggressive to start luring retailers here and convince them that quick facts are only part of the story. There is enough sales tax leakage out of this area that it may be worth their time.

[flintysooner]

Why is it that everyone but retail execs, know that Okc is spread out both in square miles and with it's pockets of higher income areas?

When will retail execs start to truly understand the makeup and layout of Okc?

It doesn't seem that difficult if you have all of the information to look at and you truly know what to look for.

Several reasons in my view.

One is that they deal with historical data much like the appraisal process. If there's no Home Depot or Lowe's in a market then it is more difficult for either one to be the first.

Another is that the larger companies tend to bureaucracy which highly values the virtue of safe decisions.

Also depends a lot on how astute their real estate people are for a specific geographic area.

Probably other reasons.

[Doug Loudenback]

In the late 70's through the mid-80's 50 Penn had the most impressive array of high-end retail and restaurants ever assembled in one place in OKC.

It was completely full in terms of leasing and also activity. It was simply the place to shop and also hosted tons of events (parties of all sorts, fund-raisers, fashion shows, botanical displays, etc.) It was common for people to go spend a better part of a day out there, shopping and eating.

There hasn't been anything like it since.

I don't think it will ever come back, just wanted to point out that at one time it was absolutely raging.

Here were some of the tenants (I'm sure there were many more I can't remember):

Orbach's (men's, women's and Varsity Shop)
Harold's (plus Old School store)
Cyrk & Co. (women's)
Lynn David (shoes)
Ralph Lauren
Polo Country Store
Pistachio's (restaurant)
Magic Pan (restaurant)
Gramophone (high-end audio)
St. John's (women's)
Volbrecth's (women's)
Bag & Baggage (luggage)
Jordan Jewels
Alexi Jewelers
Park & Co. (men's wear)
Ellis of Edinborough (custom tailor)
Sooner Federal Bank
Interurban Restaurant
Urban Market (restaurant)
Pageboy Maternity
Applefields (housewares and gifts)
Robert Douglass (gowns and formal wear)
Williams-Sonoma (housewares)
Calla (restaurant)
Mui's (home & accessories)
Fitzhugh's (gifts)
Legacy (jewelry)
Bentley Hedges Travel
Shearson Lehman Brothers
The Gift Tree
Peppermint Fudge (kid's clothing)
Jaeger (women's)
Talbot's (women's)
Ann Taylor (women's)

Avery Jewelry

[Pete]

My opinion on why some national retailers pass up OKC in favor of smaller cities like Tulsa is this: we don't have a concentrated area or development that exclusively caters to the more up-scale tenants and therefore there isn't a track record they can draw from.

Reason Utica Square gets places like Restoration Hardware is because there is already a Saks. And the reason they get Anthropologie is that there is already a Restoration Hardware at the same site.

These retailers never want to be the pioneer, especially when times are tough. They would rather put a 20th store in Southern California than open in a new market like OKC. And they also trust and respect the market research of other retailers. I used to lease retail space and many times a chain store would ask, "Is so-and-so there? Our data shows that we will do 75% of their business if we locate next door."

Back when 50 Penn was going great guns (as posted above) OKC got lots of stores before Tulsa did. I think the only way this trend reverses is if NH Plaza and the surrounding areas are greatly redeveloped and in return get a core of high-end tenants that succeed... Then others will fall right in line.

[flintysooner]

Good post Pete.

Pre-recession I had a project in a pretty good market and used a local real estate group to solicit tenants. The local guys advised me on the lease rates and spent over a year soliciting tenants but never reaching 60% occupancy which was my internal target.

During the recession I switched to a different group from out of state. They advised much higher rates and secured 100% leases.

I've encountered similar "tunnel vision" in a number of disciplines related to legal work, engineering, design, and construction.

And financing -- especially financing.

[onthestrip]

As mentioned, we don't have a strong concentration of good demographics. We have some good numbers, just spread out. Retailers often look at household earnings within a certain radius. What developers and the chamber have to do is make these retailers aware that they need to look a a driving time radius rather than a mile radius. Oklahoma city residents can get a lot of places in 10 minutes. What might take someone in Dallas to drive 5 miles might be done in half the time in okc. Instead of looking at households in a 5 mile radius they need to look more at a 10-15 mile radius. So yea, it's basically lazy or uninformed real estate execs at these retailers. And lack of quality shopping centers.

[Pete]

The standard report almost all retailers look at is demographics in a 1-, 3- and 5-mile radius.

It's hard to find a spot in OKC that isn't weak in one of those categories.

[betts]

What retailers fail to realize when looking at OKC relative to Tulsa is that while their average income may be slightly higher, the fact that our metropolitan area is a third again larger means that we've still got more people in their target income and age bracket. Also people here are probably willing to drive farther to shop than in other cities. Also, as adaniel suggests, the people compiling the data may be doing a superficial analysis. They don't care if we get a store or not.

[BoulderSooner]

Once again, Tulsa has better population DENSITY numbers and probably always will unless OKC deannexes our rural land

but TULSA isn't getting a Dicks sporting goods .. broken arrow is ...