Why not OKC?

[SOONER]

When exactly are we going to see some kind of high rise complex (residential or business) built in downtown? It's been a long while. I've read where Omaha (a smaller city) just finished a forty something story business tower and are now about to embark on a 32 story residential-retail tower. Why Omaha and not us?

It seems several cities of similar size have or will have things shooting into the sky at high rates (ie. Charlotte, Memphis, Jacksonville). I'm hoping as downtown interest continues to grow, so to will construction. It would just be nice to have a great looking skyline. Your thoughts.

[downtownguy]

I think we will see one.

[Nuclear_2525]

I think we will see one.

Is that a hint!

or just a thought?

I really would like to see something too. OKC is seeing a ton of interest in downtown housing, but it seems to be a ton of smaller projects. I wish some of these developers would get together and build 2-3 larger towers.

[Luke]

Ah, the downtownguy speaks!

He knows something...

[Pete]

I'd love to see something happen between lower Bricktown and the river.

Would have great views of both the skyline and the river area, plus access to all the recreation that is emerging in that area.

[okcpulse]

I still believe the mostly likely to happen is a mixed-use residential/office/retail complex that tops 65 floors. We need a developer with this kind of ambition to bring downtown Oklahoma City to the next level. We really do need a new signature tower downtown, one the city can really be proud of.

[TStheThird]

Have any of you seen the mixed use tower being built in Dallas next to the American Airlines Arena. I saw it the other day. I am not sure what it is, but it appears to be a mixed use tower. The bottom twenty floors or so had smaller windows and the upper twenty had all glass and balconies. There were additional buildings of the same design being built next to it.

It would be awesome to see a development like that built in OKC.

[John]

Have any of you seen the mixed use tower being built in Dallas next to the American Airlines Arena. I saw it the other day. I am not sure what it is, but it appears to be a mixed use tower. The bottom twenty floors or so had smaller windows and the upper twenty had all glass and balconies. There were additional buildings of the same design being built next to it.

It would be awesome to see a development like that built in OKC.

They're putting up a W Hotel next to the AAC. There will be several floors of condos, too, I believe... as well as some retail.

[BDP]

What's Omaha's vacancy rate downtown?

[Patrick]

We really need to find better use for First National, before we start thinking of building a new office tower downtown. Once we do something with First National, the office vacancy rate downtown will improve drastically. By the way, Devon is out of space at their tower and at Chase Tower. They're growing by leaps and bounds. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved out of Chase Tower, sold their existing building, and built a new signature skyscraper somewhere downtown. Devon can't wait to be the sole symbol of OKC!

[BDP]

I agree Patrick. I am not a commercial Real Estate expert, but I would think that most developers would be turned off by our vacancy rate. No one wants to build an empty building. The rate may be skewed and not a true indicator of the demand for space downtown (then again, it could be very accurate). It could very well be that the type of space does not meet demand and there's simply too much of the wrong kind of space. But, it takes someone with intimate knowledge of the local market and I'm guessing the types that build 60 story buildings are not likely to get past our vacancy rate as there are opportunities for them elsewhere.

[Patrick]

At the same time though, our vacancy rate is sorta deceiving. First National makes up a huge chunk of the vacancy downtown. It's not very useable office space for today's needs. If you take that out of the equation, I bet our vacancy rates wouldn't look as bad. That's why I'd love to see someone come in, purchase the building, and convert it to residential use.

I know parking has been mentioned as a problem for First National, but there are several buildings downtown that don't have decent parking. The Galleria Parking garage isn't too far.

[SOONER]

But why is office space the only thing being talked about. Office space and residential space are obviously two different things. I'm waiting for someone to build a residential-retial mixed use type of builiding. You're seeing them pop up all over other cities, and we have yet to catch on. Instead we seem to be settling for smaller projects, when we could be aiming for bigger and more bolder projects. Again, if less appealing cities like Memphis, Omaha, even Mobile (they've got a 30 story condo tower going up) can do it, why can't we. What's holding us back.

[Patrick]

First National would be perfect for this use. It's the owners holding us back.

[HFK]

Interesting thread. A W in Dallas, eh? My my...

I've stayed in two W's on Manhattan, the one in Westwood, and I had a long-term stay in the one around Milpitas (East-Bay). Talk about hip, way more hip that I'm up for, but well worth the experience.

Back to OKC: well I've bugged off to an acre in the country so I'm no longer a city boy, but I'm still very interested in Bricktown. My take: Residences will come, but high rises? Who can say. I agree with the others, current occupancy rates obviously have a lot to do with any future plans. I'm confident that residences of some sort will be popping-up around Brick/Downtown in the relatively near future, and their number will likely increase logarithmically. Before Developers begin building new glass and steel towers I'd like to see them utilize the old spaces more effectiely, e.g. the apartments that are in the old, what was it, a Wards? Years ago, while in Canada, I recall seeing an old brick brewery, (Molson, I think) being gutted in preparation for rebirth as upscale apartments or condos inside the old brick structure, something like Bricktown only residential. I'd like to see the same here. I usually prefer the re-utilization of old buildings, rather than the creation of new ones, modern architecture in general being what it is, i.e. horrid.

However, I was in El Pas a couple of weeks ago and, on the Northwest side of town I saw a beautiful new, and rather large, building that had Santa Fe, Pueblo, and Prarie styling. We can still create buildings that are impressive physically and aesthetically, but it's more the exception rather than the rule. So, untill we really need to create some potentially monstrous concrete and glass tower let's stick with what we have, and make it better.

[writerranger]

Taller is not always better. OKC has a skyline, what it needs is growth in other critical areas. The vacancy rate makes it almost impossible to seriously consider a new skyscaper. Too much money for the sq. ft. value versus other urban design ideas.

[BDP]

I agree that better use of what we have is better in the long run than just building the next empty building. Just look at the hotels. The Skirvin and the Colcord are much more exciting and interesting than anything else. I do think that a true convention hotel would be nice and maybe is the best possibility for a new high rise. I think that the Courtyard will be recognized as a huge missed opportunity on that front.

I think the problem is that not only are we not converting some valued properties, its that when we are building new buildings that half of them end up being these unambitious and half assed developments like the coming Residence Inn, most of lower bricktown, and, possibly this Embassy Suites. We can not let the bad developers take away from things like the Montgomery, the Skirvin, the Colcord, and others. It's just frustrating that no one has looked at the demand growing in the market and said "ok, enough of this cheap crap, we given all we can, now we're going to start expecting something from these developers who are benefiting greatly from public capital investment."

[swake]

All it takes is a developer that has the vision and the money. Paul Coury, the Tulsa developer that is doing the boutique hotel in OKC that will be like the Ambassador in Tulsa had plans a few years ago for a 25 story condo tower at 21st and Riverside to be called the Portofino in the Uptown area.

The plan died with the downturn in the Tulsa 2002-2003 economy and the site is now called the Tudors with a mix of half million dollar single family townhomes and a five story condo building. He might be the one to see that OKC could support such a project if the right site was available.

[jbrown84]

I don't understand how the office vacancy rate would be getting in the way of a residential tower. And besides, all the vacant office space is Class B and C for the most part. A nice tower with Class A space would fill up when First National can't.

[fromdust]

When exactly are we going to see some kind of high rise complex (residential or business) built in downtown? It's been a long while. I've read where Omaha (a smaller city) just finished a forty something story business tower and are now about to embark on a 32 story residential-retail tower. Why Omaha and not us?

It seems several cities of similar size have or will have things shooting into the sky at high rates (ie. Charlotte, Memphis, Jacksonville). I'm hoping as downtown interest continues to grow, so to will construction. It would just be nice to have a great looking skyline. Your thoughts.

you should go to eomaha, they have a great video that makes their city look awesome. much better of a video than the one for okc.

[fromdust]

What's Omaha's vacancy rate downtown?

i found this, but its really old data. so if any one else has newer data....well ya know post it. 2002. okc 31 to omahas 22%

[Midtowner]

Is there anyone here that's good at C.G.? I'm pretty darned good at video editing (in my always humble opinion) and well versed in the ways of AViD. I have access to decent equipment and am pretty handy with a video camera. I can do titles, but am useless when it comes to logo design and other C.G. (although I am just fine if I can steal something). I'd be open to working on such a video this summer in what spare time I might have if there is anyone out there who can do C.G. stuff.

[fromdust]

i was on emporis and was looking at the buildings in okc and noticed something that caught my interest. it stated that 1 high rise had been proposed for the city and another had been approved. last time i was on this site nothing was on this list. does anyone know what buildings they are talking about? res, hotel, business?

[The Old Downtown Guy]

As you may recall, the McLains developed a plan for "The Factory" high rise, mixed use, in Bricktown, but decided to sell the property rather than proceed with the project. Also, the twenty-some-odd floor Park Harvey building will soon be converted to residential use as will three other similar sized vacant buildings in downtown.

The driving force is income potential and the present rent levels in OKC won't support a new construction high rise yet. I'm guessing at least five years, more likley ten, before someone takes on that challenge. It will take someone with very deep pockets and lots of experience with similar development.

[OKCNDN]

Forget about high-rise. Most Oklahomans just aren't interested. Oklahomans are used to a front-yard and a back-yard. Oklahomans are used to space. Someone on here said they moved to 10 acre spread. That's what they want, their own space. For the most part, Oklahomans have grown up not having to share a wall, unless they grew up in an apartment. The main people who would want to live in high-rise would seem to be people who have already lived there, i.e. from bigger cities where they already have it in great amounts.

Omaha is where Warren Buffet? is from, right? Warren is one of the richest men in the world. I believe Omaha has several good companies located there. Mutual of Omaha insurance for one. I believe Omaha is where Warren Buffet has his financial empire headquartered and they are bringing in lots of people from around the country to work there. Omaha is an exception. Omaha probably has a higher income level and the national average and is probably near the top of the list for a city it's size.