Should the Convention Center be built?

[Larry OKC]

Thee has been a lot of talk that the voters wishes need to be heard and we need to follow through with the announced list of MAPS 3 Projects. My question is, can you reconcile those two statements when the scientific polling and the Chambers own polling never showed the Convention Center receiving the 50% mark? Should the Convention Center be scrapped completely and use the $250M for Streetcars (the most popular polling project)? Thoughts?

[blangtang]

Isn't there already one?

[ljbab728]

Thee has been a lot of talk that the voters wishes need to be heard and we need to follow through with the announced list of MAPS 3 Projects. My question is, can you reconcile those two statements when the scientific polling and the Chambers own polling never showed the Convention Center receiving the 50% mark? Should the Convention Center be scrapped completely and use the $250M for Streetcars (the most popular polling project)? Thoughts?

My thoughts are no. We would also never have had the new arena or the Bricktown Canal if that line of thought was followed and each item had to be approved separately.

[Spartan]

Voters were willing to compromise on the convention center. That's what MAPS is, a compromise for progress.

I don't like fairground improvements or senior aquatic centers but I'm willing to support it if they'll support things I want.

[BoulderSooner]

we badly need a new convention center .. so yes it should be built

[Of Sound Mind]

Thee has been a lot of talk that the voters wishes need to be heard and we need to follow through with the announced list of MAPS 3 Projects. My question is, can you reconcile those two statements when the scientific polling and the Chambers own polling never showed the Convention Center receiving the 50% mark? Should the Convention Center be scrapped completely and use the $250M for Streetcars (the most popular polling project)? Thoughts?

We will get a much higher ROI on a new convention center than we ever will on streetcars.

[BoulderSooner]

We will get a much higher ROI on a new convention center than we ever will on streetcars.

i don't think that is totally the truth .. street cars will give something like 10 -1 private to public investment .. if we are only half of that .. we will see (with the federal funds) 1billion in private investment along the line .... then you start talking about the sales and pay roll tax from the new business ect and it will be a huge windfall ..

[Of Sound Mind]

i don't think that is totally the truth .. street cars will give something like 10 -1 private to public investment .. if we are only half of that .. we will see (with the federal funds) 1billion in private investment along the line .... then you start talking about the sales and pay roll tax from the new business ect and it will be a huge windfall ..

I still put my money on the convention center having a better ROI ... I think some people are wishfully overestimating the projected ridership and success of the streetcars ...

[Spartan]

Case studies show every time that streetcar has more impact. The problem with convention centers is that everyone is building them bigger and better, and it's a rat race to an extent. We have to do it if we want to DEFEND our convention business, let alone get ahead, I hope we can accomplish both.

Another problem with RETURN on investment (let me stress the 'R' in ROI) is that we're spending $280M on the convention center and only $120M on modern streetcar, so less than half. I would imagine the streetcar will be a greater economic catalyst simply for the fact that transit doesn't really exist to begin with in OKC, so it's a new product. We have not had TOD in 50-60 years. Actually, if we're talking about the development, we probably haven't had that in 70-80 years. Needless to say, a blank slate.

But even if the streetcar doesn't pump more into the economy, I don't think there can be any doubt we'll get more bang for those bucks. I'm a proponent of both, and I would just say these sorts of things work best when convention center and transit proponents don't attack each other. And trust me, the argument for transit is a lot stronger than the argument for a convention center. Let's just all get along here, and keep moving OKC forward...

[Of Sound Mind]

Who's attacking anyone? I'm expressing an opinion.

I respect your viewpoint, I just disagree with your conclusion.

[soonerguru]

We will get a much higher ROI on a new convention center than we ever will on streetcars.

Most convention centers are major money losers, but that's not necessarily why we build them (to make money).

[Larry OKC]

And the Chamber of COMMERCE is a non-profit. Gotta love it!

[betts]

I hate to sound superficial, but our convention center is ugly. I wouldn't want to go to a convention there. That's my best reason for building a new one, especially after I saw the Qwest Center in Omaha and experienced convention center envy. I've never really paid attention to conventions or their finances. It seems to me that conventions would bring in visitors and that's good for our hotels and restaurants. If we had retail downtown it would be good for that too, I think. But, that's an uneducated opinion. I've never missed my MAPS pennies, so I'm fine with building a new one, even though it's just above the fairgrounds improvments at the bottom of my MAPS wishlist.

[Spartan]

Intangible reasons are always good reasons, betts. I think aesthetic improvement is a very valid concern with the convention center..

[Kerry]

... I would imagine the streetcar will be a greater economic catalyst simply for the fact that transit doesn't really exist to begin with in OKC, so it's a new product. We have not had TOD in 50-60 years. Actually, if we're talking about the development, we probably haven't had that in 70-80 years. Needless to say, a blank slate...

Memorial Road is full of TOD.

[Roadhawg]

I hate to sound superficial, but our convention center is ugly. I wouldn't want to go to a convention there. That's my best reason for building a new one, especially after I saw the Qwest Center in Omaha and experienced convention center envy. I've never really paid attention to conventions or their finances. It seems to me that conventions would bring in visitors and that's good for our hotels and restaurants. If we had retail downtown it would be good for that too, I think. But, that's an uneducated opinion. I've never missed my MAPS pennies, so I'm fine with building a new one, even though it's just above the fairgrounds improvments at the bottom of my MAPS wishlist.

I agree... the Quest Center is an impressive place, I've been there several times.

[Patrick]

Really, who from out of town would want to come to a convention at the Cox Center? We badly need a decent convention center, even if just average.

[Larry OKC]

According to one article the Chamber said convention requests by planners etc was up by 80% (just a month after stating we were slowly going out of the convention business).

[flintysooner]

According to one article the Chamber said convention requests by planners etc was up by 80% (just a month after stating we were slowly going out of the convention business).

Both things can easily be true of course although I surmise you believe one must disallow the other.

[kevinpate]

Really, who from out of town would want to come to a convention at the Cox Center? We badly need a decent convention center, even if just average.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but my limited recall is that there are a number of groups who do annually frequent return. Not saying OKC couldn't use a larger and better cc, but the existing cc doesn't appear to be sitting around empty and neglected.

[Larry OKC]

Both things can easily be true of course although I surmise you believe one must disallow the other.

It was in response to the question of why anyone would want to have a convention in the Cox. But I understand what you are saying, even if on the surface they seem to be contradictory

Perhaps I am mistaken, but my limited recall is that there are a number of groups who do annually frequent return. Not saying OKC couldn't use a larger and better cc, but the existing cc doesn't appear to be sitting around empty and neglected.

Although it does have an operational loss of something like $3M/year and sits empty a good number of days per year (about a third of the time...don't have the exact number handy but I posted it recently to a question Kerry asked about it.)

Course the thinking is that the less than capacity booking is due to the limitations of the Cox (ceiling heights, floor space etc).

Not arguing it either way, just putting what they have said out there.

[Spartan]

Memorial Road is full of TOD.

Ok....

[soonerguru]

Ok....

I think he's exercising irony...

[bombermwc]

If you've ever been to a show at the Cox "convention" center, then you know how bad it is. Now, I'll give them credit for making it a million times better than the Myriad's couple of rooms were. But it's pathetic....and small. The "Grand" Ballroom is a joke and there is absolutely zero expo room there. If you want to be able to host a tradeshow, you need tons of open floorspace, which we do not have. But remember, the convention center part of the Myriad is an afterthought. It's an addition from Maps that pushed out as far as the building could go. So with what they had to work with, it really did make a marked improvement. In comparison to other cities though, it's crap. There are countless smaller cities with larger and better facilities....heck we can't even get a good wifi from a center with Cox's name on it...lol.

And all the non-tangible benefits a GOOD convention center can bring are priceless. A bad one can have the opposite effect. It's just like the NBA being here. The more people talk about your town in a GOOD light, the more your name is out there and brought up in places that it never would have before. Good exposure can bring great things. All that outside money for food and hotels for all those visitors....ca-ching!

[Midtowner]

3 reasons why yes:

1) The policy behind it should be considered moot. The voters have spoken loud and clear, even on referendum votes for city council. MAPS was sold as a collection of public works, and we the public expect our city's leadership to come through with what we voted for. I don't care about the polling, the actual voting has always shown a great support for MAPS. I fear that if our leadership does not follow through that the MAPS brand could be dead or severely tarnished.

2) (really 1.5) as Ward 2 Candidate, Dr. Ed Shadid said, MAPS is a bond with the voters. It is sacred.

3) We actually need it.