So why do we build sidewalks...

[TheTravellers]

if people still use the street instead?

So does anybody else see people walking, running in the street when there's a perfectly good, level, unobstructed (for blocks) sidewalk less than 3 feet away from them? Anybody have any idea why? I've seen walkers, runners, people pushing baby strollers in the street in our subdivision even though the sidewalk right next to them has no cars parked in the driveways blocking it, no tree roots making the sidewalk unstable, etc. Just one of the many ways that I cannot fathom what people are thinking when they do something that just seems so absolutely illogical, but would love to know if anybody knows of a reason for this. I guess I should just be glad that they're going against the traffic the way they should be. Probably have to pull over someday next to one of them and just ask them why (and then hope I understand the reasoning behind it). People in the other places I've lived used sidewalks if they were there, I don't think I recall a case of someone ever using the street if there was a sidewalk, which is why I'm asking.

So should we keep building sidewalks, even though people don't use them?

[Pete]

I run a lot and am one of the people that use the sidewalks whenever possible.

But I can tell you it's generally safer to run in the street because almost nobody checks sidewalks before slamming their can into reverse or coming to stop sign. 99.9999% of people roll up to and often past a stop sign instead of stopping in the proper spot, behind the crosswalk. If you are in the street you have a better chance of being seen as almost everybody at least checks for traffic before pulling out / turning.

And people do frequently block sidewalks with their cars so you end up having to go around them anyway.

In your neighborhood is the roadway asphalt? Often people prefer that to concrete walkways.

And one more reason: if you are walking / running with other people, a sidewalk isn't wide enough to move along side-by-side.


Having said all that, I do use the sidewalks and try to be extra careful. But I can tell you that at least once every time I run that someone in a car would take me out if I didn't see them first.

[TheTravellers]

Some good points, thanks for replying. I'm a very observant driver, so those things just don't occur to me since 99.99999% of the time, I see pedestrians, cars, etc. that are around where I'm driving (and a lot further out than just in my immediate area - I drive way past my front bumper, as they say, and watch as far ahead of me as I can see and watch behind me too).

The streets are asphalt, but a lot of the people I see in the street are walking/running in the gutter part, which is concrete, so they're not taking advantage of the softer surface.

Saw a woman yesterday with a baby stroller walking *with* the traffic *in* the street, while her other kid walked on the sidewalk. As I said, I will never be able to figure out why some people think the way they do...

[Pete]

Another thing with sidewalks... They can be a bit up and down as sometimes there aren't curb cuts at an intersection. So, someone pushing a stroller would have to navigate up and down curbs.


In OKC, I think people are just used to walking in the street because so few neighborhoods or main thoroughfares actually have sidewalks.

[TheTravellers]

Another thing with sidewalks... They can be a bit up and down as sometimes there aren't curb cuts at an intersection. So, someone pushing a stroller would have to navigate up and down curbs.

Sidewalks in our neighborhood (where I saw them walking) have quite nice curb cuts. :-)

[TulsaRobert]

What's really fun is that my Tulsa neighborhood (built in the late 1920s) was built without sidewalks. Then, sometime in the '70s, the city offered to put sidewalks in if the owner agreed. What we ended up with is a patchwork of sidewalks in front of some houses and grass in front of other houses. It pretty much forces me to walk in the street; I'm afraid that going up onto the sidewalk for a couple of houses and then back into the road for a couple of houses would make me appear intoxicated, LOL.

At least here, in the future (since it is city ROW), I recommend that the city just puts the sidewalk there without making it optional. Do you all have a similar situation down there?

[bombermwc]

I can attest to the stroller problems. What really bugs me is when there's a concrete drain between homes. There's no "bridge" and the stroller (a double one in my case) can't go up and down those so you have to go down one driveway and up the next to get around it.

Our neighborhood has good corners, which isn't true in a lot of places. So everywhere we go there is an easy up/down at the corner. We definitely prefer the sidewalk to the street but sometimes cars do force you to the street. It's annoying to the walker, but as a person parking at home, I totally understand them parking in their driveway like that. You can't pull in any further because, oh there's a house there...lol. And if you pull back, your butt sticks out. I'll just go around them.

What really annoys the crap out of me though, is the main road offenders. You're driving down a 4-lane road and the person isn't using the sidewalk. ESPECIALLY FREAKING BIKES!!!!! Ok, it's great that you want to ride your bike and all, but either sit in the lane and take it up, or get off the road. Riding along on the side just makes you LESS visible and then people come up on you fast, freak out, and then swerve to avoid you without looking at who is around. If there's not a bike lane, then get off the road...YOU are dangerous. The road was built for cars...that's it...cars. Not bikes, not people walking...cars. If you aren't a car, don't be on it. Steps off box.....

[Larry OKC]

Ordinary streets are not just for cars. Perfectly legal to ride a bike on them. That said, all bicyclists are also supposed to obey the traffic rules.

[Pete]

OKC needs more people on bikes, not less.

Cycling is very popular elsewhere and just now starting to take hold in Oklahoma. For decades, cyclists and motorist have coexisted even on narrow, crowded European streets.

Larry is absolutely right: cyclists have the same right to the road as anyone in a car. People need to change their attitudes in this regard because you are only going to see more and more people out on bikes. And that's a good thing.

[Consci]

True but the cyclist needs to obey the traffic laws too! I don’t know how many times I’ve seen a cyclist come up to full 4 way stop and weave around the cars and never stop and blow right thru the intersection almost causing an accident. Plus if they want some curtsey they need to give it like not ridding in the middle of the frackin road when a line of cars is behind them.

[Larry OKC]

Consci: Agree that cyclists (and motorists) need to obey the traffic laws. Cars run thru lights, turn right from a left hand lane (and left from a right hand) and on and on. However, unless I am mistaken, the "correct" (legal) way for a cyclist to ride in a lane of traffic (if there is no dedicated bike lane) is in the "middle of the frackin road" actually, think the rule is to the left of center (but may be thinking of motorcycles). But just like slower moving traffic, if there is a shoulder or other exit point they can safely get to, they should do so as a courtesy.

[rcjunkie]

OKC needs more people on bikes, not less.

Cycling is very popular elsewhere and just now starting to take hold in Oklahoma. For decades, cyclists and motorist have coexisted even on narrow, crowded European streets.

Larry is absolutely right: cyclists have the same right to the road as anyone in a car. People need to change their attitudes in this regard because you are only going to see more and more people out on bikes. And that's a good thing.

I agree it's a good thing (environment and health), but please please please, abide by the laws, at least 75% of the bikers I encounter do not.

[BBatesokc]

Here's what I don't get. I've noticed in South OKC alot of tax dollars were spent putting in ramps at many intersections with the red textured section to alert the blind of a change in grade. I don't think these ramps are even a few years old yet, but the city is ripping them out an replacing them with slightly wider ramps. This is just based on my casual observations. Anyone know anything about this?

[Pete]

please, abide by the laws, at least 75% of the bikers I encounter do not.

And 99% of motorist do not.

People love to single out cyclists for some reason yet virtually every time someone gets in a car they speed, fail to come to a complete stop BEHIND the crosswalk, etc., etc.

And people breaking laws in a car are far more dangerous than a skinny guy on a little bike. Unless someone is really hauling, they are generally going around 10-15MPH.


I agree that cyclists should obey laws but it's silly to talk about that when I see absolutely nobody getting indignant about motorists. It's pretty clear people behind the wheel expect cyclists to adhere to standards that they themselves don't follow.

[rcjunkie]

And 99% of motorist do not.

People love to single out cyclists for some reason yet virtually every time someone gets in a car they speed, fail to come to a complete stop BEHIND the crosswalk, etc., etc.

And people breaking laws in a car are far more dangerous than a skinny guy on a little bike. Unless someone is really hauling, they are generally going around 10-15MPH.


I agree that cyclists should obey laws but it's silly to talk about that when I see absolutely nobody getting indignant about motorists. It's pretty clear people behind the wheel expect cyclists to adhere to standards that they themselves don't follow.

Did I hit a nerve or what ? This thread was/is about sidewalks and bike riders. I will, and have, posted about horrible drivers in the appropriate thread.

[bluedogok]

Here's an article about adding sidewalks to the burbs in Chicago.

The Wall Street Journal - Bruised Feelings and Skinned Knees Litter Suburban Sidewalk Politics

[bombermwc]

A cyclist should operate the way a biker should. They are both hard to see, and are easily hit. You, as the biker/cyclist, should exercise EXTRA caution and be MORE careful as to avoid the big metal beast that would run you over without a second thought or much damage. When you are the mintority on the road, you should be making extra effort to be safe. It really shouldn't be the opposite....no matter what the written law is. Law won't help you when you're dead because you didn't spend a half second more thought and just assumed the car would obey because it's a law.

I'm with Consci, every day I'll see a biker zip around traffic and gun it like they don't think they have to wait. Somehow they are immune to the traffic laws or safety. And, of course, later they are splattered on the concrete and need a shovel to pick up their pieces, but they got through that traffic. And being near Sooner Rd, I see the cyclists weekly. At least the long distance folks keep their spotter cars around to help protect them. You can't do that for normal around town stuff, but just be careful and don't assume cars are going to obey....you do that and you're dead.

[Snowman]

A cyclist should operate the way a biker should. They are both hard to see, and are easily hit. You, as the biker/cyclist, should exercise EXTRA caution and be MORE careful as to avoid the big metal beast that would run you over without a second thought or much damage. When you are the mintority on the road, you should be making extra effort to be safe. It really shouldn't be the opposite....no matter what the written law is. Law won't help you when you're dead because you didn't spend a half second more thought and just assumed the car would obey because it's a law.

I'm with Consci, every day I'll see a biker zip around traffic and gun it like they don't think they have to wait. Somehow they are immune to the traffic laws or safety. And, of course, later they are splattered on the concrete and need a shovel to pick up their pieces, but they got through that traffic. And being near Sooner Rd, I see the cyclists weekly. At least the long distance folks keep their spotter cars around to help protect them. You can't do that for normal around town stuff, but just be careful and don't assume cars are going to obey....you do that and you're dead.

Cycling the wrong way down a road that is not wide enough for a car to avert if their is oncoming traffic is the one that still amazes me that people think it is a good idea.