Cng

[Goodengroup]

Love's adds CNG at station in Kingfisher
Love's Country Store has added compressed natural gas in Kingfisher as part of its partnership with Chesapeake Energy Corp.

BY JAY F. MARKS jmarks@opubco.com 1
Published: February 26, 2011
KINGFISHER — About 40 people huddled braved freezing temperatures and snow flurries Thursday to celebrate the opening of the first compressed natural gas fueling station at a Love's Country Store.

The Oklahoma City-based chain of convenience stores and truck stops dallied with the gasoline alternative in the 1980s, but spokeswoman Jenny Love Meyer said this time is different.
Now Love's is partnering with industry giant Chesapeake Energy Corp., which will supply natural gas for the fueling station.
CNG was selling for $1.39 a gasoline gallon equivalent Thursday, while gas as $3.29 a gallon.
Chesapeake has been an advocate for CNG as a transportation fuel.
The company is in the process of converting its own fleet of about 4,000 trucks to run on CNG, a move that will give Chesapeake one of the top green fleets in the country, Chief Operating Officer Steve Dixon said.
He said Chesapeake has led by example in pushing for increased use of CNG, which is clean, affordable and abundant.
Taylor Shinn, Chesapeake's senior director of corporate development, said state government and business leaders have done a good job in laying the groundwork for Oklahoma to capitalize on the natural gas produced in the state.
Oklahoma has about 40 public CNG fueling stations in Oklahoma, according to Central Oklahoma Clean Cities, including 11 in the Oklahoma City metro area.
“Oklahoma is setting a strong example for the rest of the nation on how to develop a CNG infrastructure network to serve the public and fleet operators,” Shinn said.
“This is accomplished when the public and private sector work together and a respected retailer such as Love's embraces the economic and environmental benefits of natural gas as a transportation fuel.”
Oklahoma Energy Secretary Mike Ming said the opening of another new CNG station was a welcome development for the state.
“I think everyone realizes CNG is a great fuel,” he said. “Getting the stations out here is a great step.”
Meyer said the Kingfisher station, which will help fuel Chesapeake's fleet in the area, is a test case for Love's.
The company doesn't have any definitive plans to add CNG at any of its other 260 locations, she said.
Love's offered CNG at a couple of Oklahoma locations in the 1980s, but there wasn't sufficient demand for the fuel. Meyer said the circumstances have changed.
“This is the first of what we hope will be more CNG fueling stations at Love's locations across Oklahoma and the rest of the country as the market develops,” she said.
Demand for CNG hasn't developed enough to interest QuikTrip, another Oklahoma-based convenience store chain.
“Right now it's just not on our radar,” spokesman Mike Thornbrugh said. “It's like any other commodity. If there was a huge consumer demand for it, we'd be doing it.”


Read more: http://newsok.com/loves-adds-cng-at-...#ixzz1FGpiGxjI

[ou48A]

Click to read this great article in full.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2553...transportation



The Time Has Come for Natural Gas Transportation

countries like Brazil, Iran, Italy, Pakistan and Singapore have very successfully adopted natural gas transportation

Today, natural gas is selling at an average price over one third cheaper than gasoline. Even better, natural gas is on average 42% cheaper than diesel.

the U.S. has the most advanced and extensive natural gas pipeline distribution network and huge natural gas reserves (combined, the two are America’s No. 1 competitive advantage over all other countries on earth), the only intelligent thing to do is to utilize this advantage and adopt natural gas in the transportation sector to reduce foreign oil imports.

[Kerry]

Great, but where can I buy a natural gas powered car?

[Joe Daddy]

Great, but where can I buy a natural gas powered car?

Most gasoline cars can be converted. Google it.

[cameron_405]

Great, but where can I buy a natural gas powered car?

"Honda Tries To Capitalize On Oklahoma's Natural Gas Industry"

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12384131


"...the following dealers were found near 73101"

http://automobiles.honda.com/tools/d...filters=ATTR45

[Goodengroup]

This video shows other recent CNG stations in Okla.

[ou48A]

Great, but where can I buy a natural gas powered car?

Kerry for the time being you can put your name on a long list to buy a Honda Civic or buy a conversion kit for a vehicle.

I don’t ordinary like any more government involvement than necessary but what’s really needed is a government mandate that would require the sale of NG fueled / Bi fueled NG vehicles. It should be a very low percentage of total sales but if they can mandate CAFE standards there is no reason why the fed couldn’t make a mandate. Mass production should bring cost down but right now we just don’t have enough of the right political leadership to make large amounts of progress on this issue.

We could save our self trillions, increase our security, create many good new wealth creating jobs and reduce pollution.
It’s very hard to understand why we don’t see a major effort moving us much faster in this direction.

[Kerry]

I looked into the conversions kits last year. The EPA doesn't allow them, regardless of what the manufacturers claim. Only 3 vehicles can be legally be convert to CNG and a Nissan Armada and Ford 500 are not on the list.

[CNG Chad]

Great, but where can I buy a natural gas powered car?

@Cameron is totally right. Honda actually is the only manufacturer currently producing dedicated NGV's to be sold in the US. However, there's a growing number of options for fleets and it certainly seems like more consumer NGVs are on their way.

This year, Honda is making their CNG Honda Civic GX available in all 50 states. You can get more information on their official site. http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/

[CNG Chad]

I looked into the conversions kits last year. The EPA doesn't allow them, regardless of what the manufacturers claim. Only 3 vehicles can be legally be convert to CNG and a Nissan Armada and Ford 500 are not on the list.

The options are a lot wider than that. You should be able to find everything you want to know about converting on our web site...

http://www.cngnow.com/EN-US/Vehicles...verttoCNG.aspx

[kevinpate]

I wouldn't mind converting my old tank if it were possible to do so. it rarely leaves Norman, and when it does, it doesn't go all that far.
Given the low milage such tanks deal with for in-town travels, it's on the wish list should I hang on to it.

[CCOKC]

We have been looking into buying a CNG Honda for a year now. The first one came into Fowler last week and was pre sold.... to someone in Texas.

[Larry OKC]

Most gasoline cars can be converted. Google it.

But at considerable cost apparently. Read a few years back it was in the $1,200 ballpark but read that the cost to convert some City vehicles was insanely high. Sorry but don't have any of the particulars. Don't see how anyone can justify the cost of conversion with the cost of "savings" if that is the case

[Joe Daddy]

But at considerable cost apparently. Read a few years back it was in the $1,200 ballpark but read that the cost to convert some City vehicles was insanely high. Sorry but don't have any of the particulars. Don't see how anyone can justify the cost of conversion with the cost of "savings" if that is the case

I don't have all the details either, but I have seen entire fleets converted. Last figure was $1,900, and thats considerably cheaper than purchasing a new CNG vehicle. I've seen many fleet Ford F150's done. The first thing we need is the infrastructure; not much sens running CNG if its a PITA to find a filling station. I took a trip to Australia in 2009 driving through New South Wales and South Australia. Every gas station had either CNG or LNG. My Ozzie mate told me they had done that 15-20 years ago across Australia. We're far behind much of the rest of the industrialized world in this regard.

[Larry OKC]

Don't get me wrong, a conversion kit may certainly be cheaper than buying new (but is it legal, as someone else suggested it isn't). But what I am saying, how many years of fuel "savings" will it take before the conversion kit has paid for itself? Same question I had for people when they were looking at getting a car with better gas mileage. if you are in the market for a new car anyway, go right ahead. But if your car is paid for does it make any since to take on payments again etc? Even if your mileage doubled, how long would it take before you broke even on the added expense?

[flintysooner]

Don't get me wrong, a conversion kit may certainly be cheaper than buying new (but is it legal, as someone else suggested it isn't). But what I am saying, how many years of fuel "savings" will it take before the conversion kit has paid for itself? Same question I had for people when they were looking at getting a car with better gas mileage. if you are in the market for a new car anyway, go right ahead. But if your car is paid for does it make any since to take on payments again etc? Even if your mileage doubled, how long would it take before you broke even on the added expense?

The last time I researched, which is a while back now, it appeared to me that you did not need EPA approval if you went with a dual fuel system and kept the existing gas tank in place.

Payback time depends of course on the cost of conversion and the cost difference between gasoline and CNG. The cost of conversion can vary depending on what you want to do with the tanks. When I researched it was at least $5,000 and probably closer to $10,000 for cars and pickups and $15,000 to $20,000 for big trucks.

With $4 to $5 gas and about $1 CNG and approximately the same efficiency that works out to a savings of $.20 to $.26 per mile driven at 15 mpg. A $5,000 cost would pay back in 20,000 to 25,000 miles.

Mileage will not double but it does appear that mileage should remain about the same as with gasoline. Power should be about the same.

The vehicle would have to have at least more life than the payback period to make it worthwhile so generally would have to be newer.

[Kerry]

If we switch to CNG how long will it be before CNG cost the equivalent of $3.50 per gallon? If our cars ran on dried leaves, dry leaves would cost $3.50 per gallon. The price of oil has ZERO to do with the cost of getting oil out of the ground, refining it, and delivering it to market. The only advantage to CNG is that we pay the high cost to US companies. That is until new gas fields are turned into national parks and then we have to import CNG.

[ou48A]

The last time I researched, which is a while back now, it appeared to me that you did not need EPA approval if you went with a dual fuel system and kept the existing gas tank in place.

Payback time depends of course on the cost of conversion and the cost difference between gasoline and CNG. The cost of conversion can vary depending on what you want to do with the tanks. When I researched it was at least $5,000 and probably closer to $10,000 for cars and pickups and $15,000 to $20,000 for big trucks.

With $4 to $5 gas and about $1 CNG and approximately the same efficiency that works out to a savings of $.20 to $.26 per mile driven at 15 mpg. A $5,000 cost would pay back in 20,000 to 25,000 miles.

Mileage will not double but it does appear that mileage should remain about the same as with gasoline. Power should be about the same.

The vehicle would have to have at least more life than the payback period to make it worthwhile so generally would have to be newer.

Good post^
With mass production the additional cost to vehicles coming off the factory floor would likely come down, perhaps significantly.
Bigger tax incentives (at least at first) could help kick start the conversion.

[ou48A]

It would not be practical to convert anywhere close to 100% of vehicles to NG.
I’m guessing that a 30% to 60% number would be more practical

With extensive use NG prices would go up but if a high percentage of vehicles were dual fuel (NG / gasoline) if NG became too expensive folks would start using more gasoline than NG. But wide scale use of NG would likely bring gasoline prices down.

There are still huge amounts of domestic NG reserves in the ground that haven’t even been drilled for yet.
Canada also has huge NG supplies. We can import LNG from friendlier sources. There are several ways to manufacture NG including coal gasification.

Right now we have so much NG on the market that some in the NG industry are looking at ways to export it.

[flintysooner]

Good post^
With mass production the additional cost to vehicles coming off the factory floor would likely come down, perhaps significantly.
Bigger tax incentives (at least at first) could help kick start the conversion.

Plus the great thing about a vehicle designed to use CNG is that the tanks can be incorporated more efficiently. If you have a pickup and you lost most of the bed volume with tanks or an SUV and you lose all your cargo space to tanks via a conversion it is a pretty big downside.

As much natural gas as we have I really do not know why there is not greater interest.

[cameron_405]

...could take a while for 'retail cng' to catch on (though the fundamentals for the switch are glaringly obvious) -- much faster migration (and impact) would be possible for big 'fleets'

"UPS adds liquified natural gas ( LNG ) powered big-rigs to its fleet"

http://www.sbsun.com/business/ci_17487104

[ou48A]

Plus the great thing about a vehicle designed to use CNG is that the tanks can be incorporated more efficiently. If you have a pickup and you lost most of the bed volume with tanks or an SUV and you lose all your cargo space to tanks via a conversion it is a pretty big downside.

As much natural gas as we have I really do not know why there is not greater interest.

You make another excellent point. If vehicle are redesigned from the ground up to use duel fuel /NG they would have larger fuel capacity and not be as range limited. They would also not be as restrictive to cargo/ trunk space

The reason why we don’t see more interest in using more NG for transportation is almost 100% political but sooner or later with the right leadership we are going to start seeing a lot more NG used for our transportation.

[Kerry]

With extensive use NG prices would go up but if a high percentage of vehicles were dual fuel (NG / gasoline) if NG became too expensive folks would start using more gasoline than NG. But wide scale use of NG would likely bring gasoline prices down.

Yes - that is the answer to high fuel prices. Cars that can switch between two or more fuel sources is the only way to drive down prices in the long run. Otherwise we are merely changing cells in the same prison. Imagine if your cell phone could operate on two or three networks and you got to choose each time you made a call. The price of cell phone calls would drop like a rock.

[Goodengroup]

Another CNG station opened in Kingfisher, Okla by Chesapeake and Love's. Another station is opening tomorrow in OKC on NW 23rd St. It will be an OnCue. Here's the Love's opening video.

[Kerry]

You make another excellent point. If vehicle are redesigned from the ground up to use duel fuel /NG they would have larger fuel capacity and not be as range limited. They would also not be as restrictive to cargo/ trunk space

The reason why we don’t see more interest in using more NG for transportation is almost 100% political but sooner or later with the right leadership we are going to start seeing a lot more NG used for our transportation.

Right now I get about 400 miles on a tank of gasoline. Does anyone know the size difference between a gasoline tank that holds 20 gallons of gasoline vs the size of a CNG tank that could hold enough CNG to get a car 400 miles?

I would be happy if I could 200 miles on gasoline, flip a switch and get the other 200 miles on CNG.