Casino District

[Bigrayok]

Just to clarify it was not my point, I did not make the post quoted in Kerry's previous post, OKCMallen did who quoted my post. One problem Las Vegas has is they overbuilt high end casinos. The casino developers forgot about the middle class customers that helped contribute to its growth in the 1990's. Station Casinos which made a name for itself with locals casinos that catered to middle class locals started building higher end casinos such as Green Valley Ranch and Red Rock Casino. Although the Fertitta family that have controled the comany over the years have made a ton of money off the UFC, Station Casinos filed Chapter 11 because they overbuilt in Las Vegas and have lost customers to tribal casinos in California. Since the economy tanked, a lot of the higher end casinos have had trouble filling hotel rooms and getting people to gamble.

One risk Oklahoma has is the saturation of too many casinos, especially if Texas ever legalizes casinos. I think Winstar would lose a significant amount of business if any casinos are built in the Dallas area. I remember when Lone Star Park Racetrack was built in Grand Prairie, Texas, Remington Park lost some of its business. Winstar itself has hurt some of the casino business in the Shreveport/Bossier City area that used to come from Dallas. Ever notice the Horseshoe Casino billboards between
Thackerville and Dallas on I-35? I think this is one of the reasons we will not see non-tribal gaming in Oklahoma anytime soon besides the reasons listed in previous posts.

Bigray in Ok

[OKCMallen]

[QUOTE=Kerry;403977]

Have you seen the Vegas tax coffers lately? No one wants that.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010...s-underwater-/

I'm not even clicking on the link. If you think full-on legalized gaming in OK wouldn't increase revenues, you need to just delete your messageboard accounts. All of them.

[Kerry]

Revenue might increase but expenses and other problems grow faster. Las Vegas is not a good model for anyone.

[Midtowner]

Casinos are trashy. Glad this won't happen in an otherwise pretty nice part of town. The casinos need to be close to their best customers--trailer park dwellers.

I'd be fine with changing the law to allow some none native casinos come in and build, but nowhere close to Bricktown or downtown, please. Sure, it'd mean revenue, but it'd certainly come at a cost. OKC is not going to turn into Vegas. Just forget about that.

[Jesseda]

your funny midtowner, if you look at a parking lot at a casino on friday night, you see a lot of BMWs, Lincolns, etc, and you see them feeding the machines 100 bills at a time without twitching or thinking twice, hell if thats how the trailer park dwellers people live, put me on the list!

[Midtowner]

your funny midtowner, if you look at a parking lot at a casino on friday night, you see a lot of BMWs, Lincolns, etc, and you see them feeding the machines 100 bills at a time without twitching or thinking twice, hell if thats how the trailer park dwellers people live, put me on the list!

Having money doesn't exclude you from being or belonging with trailer trash.

[Kerry]

your funny midtowner, if you look at a parking lot at a casino on friday night, you see a lot of BMWs, Lincolns, etc, and you see them feeding the machines 100 bills at a time without twitching or thinking twice, hell if thats how the trailer park dwellers people live, put me on the list!

You never been to a drug infested trailer park have you?

[Larry OKC]

Having money doesn't exclude you from being or belonging with trailer trash.

There was a line by Roseanne (when she was married to Tom Arnold and incorporated into the show (think after they won the Lottery) that went something like this: "We are their worst nightmare, white trash with money"

[ljbab728]

Having money doesn't exclude you from being or belonging with trailer trash.

Midtowner, I'm really surprised at your comments. I've never before taken you to be such an elitist.

[Midtowner]

Midtowner, I'm really surprised at your comments. I've never before taken you to be such an elitist.

Oh, more of a realist, and a user of inflammatory language for the point of getting my point across. Others are much more elitist than me in that if there was a casino in Bricktown, they wouldn't go. Crime, without question, would be up, it would no longer be the sort of venue you'd want for a lot of the conventions OKC is going after. Let me put it this way--with regard to conventions, having a casino near the premises of the hotel wouldn't win us any conventions, but it'd definitely lose us some.

As for me, myself/I? I actually work for, proudly, I might add, many of those folks who I know would not mesh with the current Bricktown vibe. They pay my mortgage/student loans, etc., that definitively doesn't make me better than them, but different? For sure. That's why they hire me.

Just because a lot of some people like a certain amenity doesn't mean everyone is going to like it.

From a business standpoint, too, nothing about the crowd draw in a casino would be beneficial to the businesses in Bricktown. Casinos have their own restaurants, dance clubs, entertainment, etc. They exist to suck you in and keep you there. Bricktown restaurants work of a sort of synergy. Restaurant A gets you there for dinner, the movie theater shows you a movie, then you go to the club where you dance/drink, then, once that's over, you go to IHOP to sober up, or if you're too far gone and don't want to get a cab, you go get a room at the Hampton. With a casino, the Hampton is the only remaining possible beneficiary there, and even then, probably not, since most casinos are now running their own hotels.

[metro]

With the logic in this thread, why not legalize a red light district, that will bring in revenue too, and why stop there...

[Jesseda]

we have a red light district its called 36th and robinson

[Midtowner]

we have a red light district its called 36th and robinson

Well then by all means! Let us unite it with Bricktown!

[OKCMallen]

Oh, more of a realist, and a user of inflammatory language for the point of getting my point across. Others are much more elitist than me in that if there was a casino in Bricktown, they wouldn't go. Crime, without question, would be up, it would no longer be the sort of venue you'd want for a lot of the conventions OKC is going after. Let me put it this way--with regard to conventions, having a casino near the premises of the hotel wouldn't win us any conventions, but it'd definitely lose us some.

As for me, myself/I? I actually work for, proudly, I might add, many of those folks who I know would not mesh with the current Bricktown vibe. They pay my mortgage/student loans, etc., that definitively doesn't make me better than them, but different? For sure. That's why they hire me.

Just because a lot of some people like a certain amenity doesn't mean everyone is going to like it.

From a business standpoint, too, nothing about the crowd draw in a casino would be beneficial to the businesses in Bricktown. Casinos have their own restaurants, dance clubs, entertainment, etc. They exist to suck you in and keep you there. Bricktown restaurants work of a sort of synergy. Restaurant A gets you there for dinner, the movie theater shows you a movie, then you go to the club where you dance/drink, then, once that's over, you go to IHOP to sober up, or if you're too far gone and don't want to get a cab, you go get a room at the Hampton. With a casino, the Hampton is the only remaining possible beneficiary there, and even then, probably not, since most casinos are now running their own hotels.

Your opinion has supplanted your logic. This is a rare day. I'm writing it down.

[Midtowner]

Okay then, Mallen, or whoever:

1) Do you think a casino would attract a Bricktown-friendly demographic? Do casinos elsewhere in the state draw a Bricktown-friendly demographic? If you answered no to either, why would a Bricktown casino be any different than, say, Riverwind?

2) Do casinos inherently bring crime with them? [I think the literature out there conclusively says yes]

3) Is it true that part of the business model of the casino is to keep customers inside, providing for ALL of their needs for as long as possible? Is that compatible with Bricktown's general business model?

[OKCMallen]

You lowered yourself when you said it won't help with conventions. Yeah. Vegas has a TERRIBLE convention business. Having a casino near the convention area would be huge. I'm pretty sure Harrah's in New Orleans does pretyt well by the Quarter and convention area.

Is there somehow a rash of crime in the parking lot of Remington, Riverwind, etc? I've never once heard that. I like how you "think" think literature is "conclusive." And even if there are studies that state similar findings, that doesn't mean Bricktown would turn into a cesspool of crime. Just that we'd need to be aware and provide a higher level of security so avoid it. Which I'm sure can be arranged in a way the casino fronts most of the cash for that.

#3 is so wrong I don't know where to begin. #1- who said a casino has to complement Bricktown's general business model. #2- you assume a limited number of people that will be sucked away from Bricktown. That's ridiculous. It would bring MORE people to Bricktown. #3- you assume that people do, indeed, go into casinos and never come out to eat, etc. #4-even if people are staying in the casino and all of a sudden never walk around Bricktown, if the casino provides better entertainment and restaurants than Bricktown, then the consumers are getting what they want. #5- kids will never be in casinos, and thus Bricktown is saved that demographic.

Mid, did you get your coffee this AM? You're usually pretty ironclad.

[Jesseda]

Its funny about the violence, I have seen fights break out in bricktown, more than once.. I have seen fights at the malls, fights infront of mcdonalds, the only violent thing i have seen at a casino is two senior citizens fighting over one of them hogging 3 machines at once, it did get pretty heated I though for a moment that one of the ladies walkers was going to be keyed!!! Common seriously I have never seen violence theft or anything at the casinos i go to which is usually riverwind or firelake.. Some people in this state are narrow minded and thats why we do not have certain things that would attract large tourism

[metro]

we have a red light district its called 36th and robinson

To clarify your statement, that's South you are referring to, N. 36th and Robinson area is one of the nicer neighborhoods in the city, Crown Heights.

[G.Walker]

You lowered yourself when you said it won't help with conventions. Yeah. Vegas has a TERRIBLE convention business. Having a casino near the convention area would be huge. I'm pretty sure Harrah's in New Orleans does pretyt well by the Quarter and convention area.

Is there somehow a rash of crime in the parking lot of Remington, Riverwind, etc? I've never once heard that. I like how you "think" think literature is "conclusive." And even if there are studies that state similar findings, that doesn't mean Bricktown would turn into a cesspool of crime. Just that we'd need to be aware and provide a higher level of security so avoid it. Which I'm sure can be arranged in a way the casino fronts most of the cash for that.

#3 is so wrong I don't know where to begin. #1- who said a casino has to complement Bricktown's general business model. #2- you assume a limited number of people that will be sucked away from Bricktown. That's ridiculous. It would bring MORE people to Bricktown. #3- you assume that people do, indeed, go into casinos and never come out to eat, etc. #4-even if people are staying in the casino and all of a sudden never walk around Bricktown, if the casino provides better entertainment and restaurants than Bricktown, then the consumers are getting what they want. #5- kids will never be in casinos, and thus Bricktown is saved that demographic.

Mid, did you get your coffee this AM? You're usually pretty ironclad.

I agree, the success of a casino in Bricktown, would all come down to the class type, I would recommend a Class III (such as slot machines, blackjack, craps, and roulette). This would bring a classier demographic of people to the Bricktown area, in return spending money in the casino as well as Bricktown. The casino could also build adjacent hotel...a casino in Bricktown would do nothing but reinvent and stimulate the economy of Bricktown...

[OKCNDN]

I agree, the success of a casino in Bricktown, would all come down to the class type, I would recommend a Class III (such as slot machines, blackjack, craps, and roulette). This would bring a classier demographic of people to the Bricktown area, in return spending money in the casino as well as Bricktown. The casino could also build adjacent hotel...a casino in Bricktown would do nothing but reinvent and stimulate the economy of Bricktown...

I respectfully disagree. In Oklahoma there will be no more non-native casinos open up. Tribes have an exclusivity clause in their gaming compacts. Only Remington Park and another small casino at some small racetrack will be non-native. A casino in Bricktown would have to be a native casino.

Class III gaming requires that a tribe pay fees to the state. That would take away from the profits. Tribal casinos do currently have some class III games-video poker, poker, blackjack, keno, craps and roulette played with cards. And of course there is the lottery, pari-mutuel betting (the ponies), off-track betting and of course the annual governor's bet on the OU-Texas game (sports gambling). But class III gaming is illegal in Oklahoma!!!

The types of games really have no impact on the "classiness" of the clientele. And true craps and roulette played with dice and a ball instead of cards would not be a big enough draw. When Oklahoma went from strictly class II (bingo-based games) to a mixture of class II and class III (true las vegas style gambling), players were slow in moving to class III gaming. Class II remained (and remain) a casino's bread and butter.

Security would probably improve in the Bricktown area. The casino would definitely have security guards walking around patrolling casino property. The patrols would not end at 2 am either. A casino would be a round-the-clock operation and so would the patrols. And there would be more security cameras viewing the area and vicinity. Also there would be FREE PARKING!!! No way would a casino charge their customers to park, no way.

[Kerry]

Not related to gambling per se - but they idea is the same.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011...thel-industry/

CARSON CITY — Sen. Harry Reid called for “an adult conversation” about prostitution in Nevada, saying it is an impediment to economic development because it discourages businesses from moving here, according to prepared remarks delivered to the state Legislature this morning.

...

Reid told the assembled lawmakers that he met recently with a group of businessmen who run data centers for technology companies. They visited Storey County in search of a new location for their businesses but “one of the businessmen in that meeting told me he simply couldn’t believe that one of the biggest businesses in the county he was considering for his new home is legal prostitution.”
He said he has talked to families who “don’t want their children to look out of a school bus and see a brothel.”

"We should do everything we can to make sure the world holds Nevada in the same high regard you and I do," Reid continued. "If we want to attract business to Nevada that puts people back to work, the time has come for us to outlaw prostitution."

[EBAH]

All it would take is the designation of a district by the State and a special set of laws just for that district. I'd be down, but I think it is almost 100% impossible in our state. More desperate states/citys have done it elsewhere in the US. Detroit has an MGM grand and 2 other LARGE casinos within city limits and they did it by passing a state constitutional amendment with special restrictions and rights for inner city detroit. I think the law in Michigan allowed for exactly 3 casinos only for Detroit.

[Midtowner]

All it would take is the designation of a district by the State and a special set of laws just for that district. I'd be down, but I think it is almost 100% impossible in our state. More desperate states/citys have done it elsewhere in the US. Detroit has an MGM grand and 2 other LARGE casinos within city limits and they did it by passing a state constitutional amendment with special restrictions and rights for inner city detroit. I think the law in Michigan allowed for exactly 3 casinos only for Detroit.

Not sure the state could do that, per se. The state can't pass what you call special laws. The state could, however, allow municipalities of a certain size to allow gambling within certain areas. Now, as NDN pointed out, we have various compacts out there with the tribes, and I have no idea what the implications there are. If they say that we can't open up non native casinos here, besides Remington, then that's the law.

[OKCRT]

Get with it OKC!!! Get in to the 21st Century and stop with the backwater podunk attitude. Build a damn casino downtown so all of us white trash trailer park residents can go spend OUR hard working dollars there instead of spending them in Shawnee,Norman or El Reno. It doesn't have to be in Bricktown but it does need to be fairly close to the new Conv. Center/Hotel. Don't think for a minute that many of the trailer trash convention folk will not visit a nice casino while they stay in the area. It's a gold mine waiting to happen,for someone. Those that don't like,don't go. Simple.

[kevinpate]

... If you think full-on legalized gaming in OK wouldn't increase revenues, you need to just delete your messageboard accounts. All of them.

I find I'm undecided. After all, Para-mutual betting was going to be the answer to the prayers. The lottery was going to be the answer to the prayers. Now it's casinos that will be the answer de jour. Mixed in along the way was the slash taxes mantra to send revenues spiraling.

Anymore, anytime someone tells me X is the newest greatest kicker revenue geyser, I start worrying more about my shoe soles getting soaked than I do my head getting wet.