Real OKC snow routes?

[Thunder]

Taken yesterday. It appears to me they are hard at work.

[venture]

I've tried to answer a few questions re: Snow Plow's in OKC, but I've finally came to the conclusion that there are a few that will always try to find the negative in everything OKC does so I'll stop giving answers to people that don't really want an answer.

Personally I was thinking you had information on the exact costs or modifications needed and have previous evaluated (compared) using sanitation vehicles as a stand by instead of acquiring additional plow trucks. What I've been able to find online has continuously been cities turning to this solution more and more. The main cost benefit being the lack of having to purchase additional trucks that won't see a lot of use year round. To the point about the equipment wearing out, what is the current replacement cycle for waste vehicles in OKC (or any surrounding city)?

[Patrick]

Lincoln is probably the first street cleared, then May, Reno and Northwest Expressway. Broadway and Memorial will also be priorities.

Note: I don't get around much on east or south side of town.

Nah, Couch Dr., Colcord Drive, and Walker Ave downtown are probably the first streets to be cleared. Then after that, anything in the area of MacArthur and Memorial Rd as well as Avendale Drive.

[jn1780]

Haha! I heard about this from my relatives who live down in that area.

As far as this conversation is concerned, a review of how the city of OKC plows/handles roads would be a good idea but I'm not sure with current fiscal realities a lot more could have been done. People are throwing out all of these northern cities like Chicago and New York and somehow we are supposed to handle stuff as well as they do. CHI and NYC residents pay boatloads in taxes so I would hope that there roads would be plowed. More suburban areas of these cities have the same problems that we do. Also, with the $ available would I rather have OKC be prepared for a snow/ice event that happens once every 20 years or will melt within 48 hours or tornadoes, hail storms, floods, wildfires, etc. that do happen quite frequently in this area and have the ability to cause major disruptions? I seriously doubt NYC has much of a plan in place to deal with tornadoes or hail storms, nor do they need to.

One thing that may want to be discussed is if some local HOA's may want to up their dues by $5/month. Have the money go into a "snowmaggedon trust fund". The money would be used to hire a private contractor to salt/clear neighborhood streets and could only be used after a major winter storm. Just something to think about.

EDIT: Here's a link from the Chicago Tribune with people there upset over the plowing effort 3 days later.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...r-thomas-byrne

Yes, we had relatively little snow in the 90's and 00's. Now all of the sudden we have two (maybe 3 next week) heavy snowfalls in the past two years. It wouldn't surprise me if the city adds more snowplows and than gradually reduces the number of snowplows to save money if and when we go through another period of little snowfall.

Ideally there would be a snow route map and an ice route map, LOL. It takes more time to clear the roads of snow so there needs to be less roads designated as snow routes.

[rcjunkie]

Personally I was thinking you had information on the exact costs or modifications needed and have previous evaluated (compared) using sanitation vehicles as a stand by instead of acquiring additional plow trucks. What I've been able to find online has continuously been cities turning to this solution more and more. The main cost benefit being the lack of having to purchase additional trucks that won't see a lot of use year round. To the point about the equipment wearing out, what is the current replacement cycle for waste vehicles in OKC (or any surrounding city)?

For OKC, most vehicles are on a 10 year replacement cycle. (except for Public Safety)

[Snowman]

Nah, Couch Dr., Colcord Drive, and Walker Ave downtown are probably the first streets to be cleared. Then after that, anything in the area of MacArthur and Memorial Rd as well as Avendale Drive.

The reference to Lincoln was tongue in cheek about the state capital being on it and so ODOT clears it first for their bosses.

[venture]

For OKC, most vehicles are on a 10 year replacement cycle. (except for Public Safety)

Thanks. So when we compare it to a city like New York, that has their sanitation vehicles on a 7 year replacement cycle...considering the lower use they would get comparatively...we actually may not see a significant increase in cost correct? Except for any initial modifications needed to be made, and for the plows, there shouldn't be a huge impact on the equipment that would for and abnormally shorter replacement cycle.

[Puppet]

The constructin of sanitation trucks (frame, electrical and hydraulic components) make this impossible without major reinforcement and upgrades. If used as is, almost certain to cause major damage.

Actually, the construction of a sanitation truck chassis is no different than plow truck chassis except two features... A front frame extension and a plow wiring harness... Total cost would be under $500.00.

Hydraulics that run the Sanitation units can be modified to run the plow...

Not advocating the use but it is actually a fairly simple and relatively inexpensive cost, if it is done when ordering the vehicle...

[venture]

Actually, the construction of a sanitation truck chassis is no different than plow truck chassis except two features... A front frame extension and a plow wiring harness... Total cost would be under $500.00.

Hydraulics that run the Sanitation units can be modified to run the plow...

Not advocating the use but it is actually a fairly simple and relatively inexpensive cost, if it is done when ordering the vehicle...

Thanks for the info! Was looking forward to hearing some numbers about it and someone was bound to have more more information.

[rcjunkie]

Actually, the construction of a sanitation truck chassis is no different than plow truck chassis except two features... A front frame extension and a plow wiring harness... Total cost would be under $500.00.

Hydraulics that run the Sanitation units can be modified to run the plow...

Not advocating the use but it is actually a fairly simple and relatively inexpensive cost, if it is done when ordering the vehicle...

Absolutely false, but what do I know, I was only in the business for 28 plus years.

[Puppet]

Absolutely false, but what do I know, I was only in the business for 28 plus years.

Well then, the business has passed you over...


This information is online... Hell, it is even part of the state of Oklahoma Vehicle Contract.

I'm not saying I would advocate using a sanitation unit with a packer body as a plow, but it could be done... and the truck models that are used in the street department are the same truck models used in sanitation and WUT... unless it is a front loader... of which there are 15 new ones as of fall of 2009. The vast majority of units at OCEAT are conventional cab trucks...

Sorrry that your "28" year experience has left you with no "current" information...

[rcjunkie]

well then, the business has passed you over...


This information is online... Hell, it is even part of the state of oklahoma vehicle contract.

I'm not saying i would advocate using a sanitation unit with a packer body as a plow, but it could be done... And the truck models that are used in the street department are the same truck models used in sanitation and wut... Unless it is a front loader... Of which there are 15 new ones as of fall of 2009 and are the vast minority of units at oceat...

Sorrry that your "28" year experience has left you with no "current" information...

yawn

[Puppet]

"yawn"... FACT

[rcjunkie]

"yawn"... FACT

Sure, if you say so!!

If I bring you 100 dump trucks, can you guarentee me that you will retrofit each one for $500.00, if so, I need your address.

[Puppet]

If you read what I wrote... It says "if it is done when ordering the vehicle"... Dude? its called reading comprehension...

[Puppet]

Sure, if you say so!!

If I bring you 100 dump trucks, can you guarentee me that you will retrofit each one for $500.00, if so, I need your address.

and BTW... Most every dump truck the street department has is already outfitted with the appropriate snow plow hookups... All of the new ones are... plows have been an issue...

[rcjunkie]

If you read what I wrote... It says "if it is done when ordering the vehicle"... Dude? its called reading comprehension...

My bad, retrofit should only be a couple of hundred more, when and where should I deliver the trucks, how many will your shop/yard handle at one time.
I buy the trucks, you do the work for $700--$800, I charge consumers $3000--$4000 (which is still a bragain), It's an offer I can't refuse.

[Puppet]

My bad, retrofit should only be a couple of hundred more, when and where should I deliver the trucks, how many will your shop/yard handle at one time.
I buy the trucks, you do the work for $700--$800, I charge consumers $3000--$4000 (which is still a bragain), It's an offer I can't refuse.

I don't do the "retrofit"... Never said I did. I am only speaking from what it costs from the original manufaturer... Like I stated in my orignial post. Like I posted above, it all about reading comprension... Apparently you have none.

[ou48A]

I would like know how much money the OKC metro area has lost during each of the last 2 blizzards.

They said that over 1000 injuries occurred during our last snow storm. Of these how many could have been prevented by better ice/snow removal. How much did this cost our economy? Surly we must pay higher insurance rates because of this?
When many businesses and governmental entities can’t operate for days how many millions does that cost our economy.


This issue reflects poor on our economic development efforts.
Imagine our city/state leaders talking to a major business who was interested in moving to our area why we stay paralyzed for so much longer than a competition did.

This is a quality of life issue that most any outside business would consider not only from a pure business point of view but also for their employees.

[ljbab728]

They said that over 1000 injuries occurred during our last snow storm. Of these how many could have been prevented by better ice/snow removal. How much did this cost our economy? Surly we must pay higher insurance rates because of this?

I'm not going to take time to research statistics on this but, from what I remember, there were relatively few automobile related accidents and injuries during the last snow storm. If that figure is accurate, the vast majority of those injuries were likely unrelated to driving at all and thus not connected to snow removal issues. Most of the accidents and automobile related injuries that do occur are more directly connected to reckless drivers.

[ou48A]

I'm not going to take time to research statistics on this but, from what I remember, there were relatively few automobile related accidents and injuries during the last snow storm. If that figure is accurate, the vast majority of those injuries were likely unrelated to driving at all and thus not connected to snow removal issues. Most of the accidents and automobile related injuries that do occur are more directly connected to reckless drivers.

Your point was accounted for when I said that “Of these how many could have been prevented by better ice/snow removal” But even if the cost of accidents due to poor Ice/snow removal is only 10%, the total cost still needs to be accounted for.
I do know that the TV folks were saying that it was very slick several days after the storm and that several accidents had occurred. If the snow had been removed in a timely way the refreezing would not have been as bad and we would have had fewer accidents.

[ljbab728]

Your point was accounted for when I said that “Of these how many could have been prevented by better ice/snow removal” But even if the cost of accidents due to poor Ice/snow removal is only 10%, the total cost still needs to be accounted for.
I do know that the TV folks were saying that it was very slick several days after the storm and that several accidents had occurred. If the snow had been removed in a timely way the refreezing would not have been as bad and we would have had fewer accidents.

I don't know where you were driving but I never saw refreezing as a major problem during this storm except on residential streets. When snow is scrapped to the sides of the streets some of it will alway melt and run back out on the streets to refreeze. Of course there were accidents, but as I said, the vast majority were caused by reckless drivers instead of terrible street conditions. I don't enjoy driving on snowy or ice covered road any more than anyone else but I don't think that the snow removal efforts are near the problem that so many seem to dwell on. You have no way of knowing for sure about how many accidents would or would not have occured based on how fast the snow is removed so that is complete conjecture.

[rcjunkie]

It's funny how all we hear is "government is too big, they need to stay out of our business, they waste money, blah, blah, blah, now whe we have a little snow and ice, they expect the government to clear every single road and sidewalk in town.

[ou48A]

I don't know where you were driving but I never saw refreezing as a major problem during this storm except on residential streets. When snow is scrapped to the sides of the streets some of it will alway melt and run back out on the streets to refreeze. Of course there were accidents, but as I said, the vast majority were caused by reckless drivers instead of terrible street conditions. I don't enjoy driving on snowy or ice covered road any more than anyone else but I don't think that the snow removal efforts are near the problem that so many seem to dwell on. You have no way of knowing for sure about how many accidents would or would not have occured based on how fast the snow is removed so that is complete conjecture.

Ok fine but what about the rest of my post...............

When many businesses and governmental entities can’t operate for days how many millions does that cost our economy.


This issue reflects poor on our economic development efforts.
Imagine our city/state leaders talking to a major business who was interested in moving to our area why we stay paralyzed for so much longer than a competition did.

This is a quality of life issue that most any outside business would consider not only from a pure business point of view but also for their employees.

[ou48A]

They want at least 10 more plows. Clearly they recognize they have a problem but they aren’t thinking outside the box for solutions. The city already owns the trucks and has the needed personnel hired.

http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-...,3245669.story
OKLAHOMA CITY -- The department of public works didn't finish its second sweep of snow routes until early Sunday.

With more snowfall coming Wednesday, is Oklahoma City planning on adding more plows to its fleet?

Not anytime soon says Public Works Assistant Director Paul Bronson.

"We'd like to have at least 10 more plows, at a minimum," said Bronson.

But putting even one more plow on the road costs a pretty penny.

Purchasing a new truck and plow costs the city $125,000; hiring two new operators to make sure the plow is on the road all day costs another $88,974.

Grand total to put just one more plow on the road: $213,974.

Bronson says that's not a cost the city is considering.

"It's money. We're in a fiscal year now where last year, as everyone is aware, we had to make significant budget cuts," Bronson said.

Bronson says the city is already "maxed out" on the number of independent plows it contracts. During last week's storm, any independent plows that were interested in helping out were on the road.

Oklahoma City operates 19 plows