General Urban Development

[UnFrSaKn]

I've been spending a lot of time on Doug's site and a few others trying to learn about what buildings used to be downtown but have been demolished. I must be the only 29 year old interested in such things. It amazes me that something like the Biltmore was demolished like it was nothing at all. People my age will never get to see it, whether it was boarded up and covered in pigeon crap or not. How long was the Skirvin left abandoned? Now it's one of the last gems downtown. Buildings are like a time machines, and I would bet the people who built them would roll in their graves to see their blood and sweat turned into a parking lot or whatever. Part of what makes a city unique is the wide range of architecture you see. I can't believe buildings like the Baum building, the old courthouse and the downtown library once existed. The old guys I work with like Doug's site and old pictures of downtown how they remember when they were kids. They all talk like it was a bygone era.

I've been spending a lot of time using Bing street view and Google street view trying to find what's still standing and where the old buildings were. So I'm trying to remember a lot of buildings. I had assumed the tall building across from Sandridge was the India Temple, and wondered what the one on the corner was but that makes sense now. What's the one across from Sandridge then?

I personally can't see a single reason for ever demolishing a piece of history. A city and a building is only what people choose to make of it. Were people considering tearing down the Skirvin when it was in disrepair? Money and the economy are fleeting things, that go up and down over the years. Once a building is demolished, there goes the cities history and the legacy of those that worked to build it. I guess that's my rant that's formulated in my head lately.

[UnFrSaKn]

I'm waiting until the Spring probably, but I want to still focus on Devon construction but also do something related to the historical side of downtown as sort of a hobby. Much like the Devon work I'm doing.

[UnFrSaKn]

I'm also planning on visiting friends in Denver in April, and maybe use the two weeks vacation to spend time there again. I haven't been on vacation there since 2004. My friend's brother builds condos in the Italian area of downtown and is renowned for restoring or preserving old buildings. After a 4th of July party at the top of his condo, my friend went riding around downtown Denver around midnight-1am, around the train station and we stopped inside the Brown Palace Hotel.







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_P...r,_Colorado%29

You talk about fascinating and a long history. This place was amazing. There are other examples of old buildings that only add to how cool Denver is that were never demolished/burnt down etc. I'm looking forward to doing video this year, if it works out.

[Larry OKC]

UnFrSaKn:

Doug or Steve can undoubtedly provide more info but from what I recall, the Skirvin wasn't abandoned for too long but the last owner had allowed it to be gutted of fixtures etc (a lot of stuff ended up at Goodwill, believe it or not). Don't know if there were formal plans to demo it, but am sure that is where it was headed if the City (former Mayor Humphreys) hadn't stepped in and saved it.

I agree completely...unless if there is a very good reason (should be a minimum of at 50 very good reasons) to tear down a building that is of historical significance (the India Temple served as the temp home of the Legislature). Every reasonable effort should be taken to restore it but at the bare minimum not destroy it. Have a hard time making people see the obvious. Once a building is gone, it is gone.

[bombermwc]

29 year old here too...must be more of us than we thought. I miss the Biltmore too, even though I've never seen it in real life since it was gone before I was born. But that was a different time. It's not all Pei's fault it is gone, remember he planned on keeping it. The plans for the gardens changed, and at that time, the Biltmore had gone down the toilet. I'm not trying to make excuses for them, but you should understand why they did it. Downtown was a dead space and the Biltmore was something that was going fast. It really is a mirror of the Skirvin (which wasn't really closed all that long). The difference is, at that time, they weren't thinking of it as historic, they saw it as an old crappy building. It's much the way we would view something like the old downtown library. Who's to say in 50 years, it won't be "historic", but would we have been sad if it had been dozed? It's all a matter of time and perspective.

Remember the Skirvin took city action to make it happen. How many folks owned it before it finally just turned to the city? There wasn't anyone on the city side interested in the Biltmore like that. It wasn't historic yet, and they saw it as in the way.

Oh what a difference 25 years makes.

[Kerry]

My understanding is that because of the low concrete ceilings even if the Biltmore was still standing it wouldn't be a candidate for saving. Some buildings were just built to be obsolete - the Biltmore was one of them.

[metro]

There are tons of twenty and early thirty somethings interested, you guys aren't even close to "the only ones," myself included. OKC wouldn't be having a renaissance without the youth. I.e. Brain drain debacle

[Steve]

i've been spending a lot of time on doug's site and a few others trying to learn about what buildings used to be downtown but have been demolished. I must be the only 29 year old interested in such things. It amazes me that something like the biltmore was demolished like it was nothing at all. People my age will never get to see it, whether it was boarded up and covered in pigeon crap or not. How long was the skirvin left abandoned? Now it's one of the last gems downtown. Buildings are like a time machines, and i would bet the people who built them would roll in their graves to see their blood and sweat turned into a parking lot or whatever. Part of what makes a city unique is the wide range of architecture you see. I can't believe buildings like the baum building, the old courthouse and the downtown library once existed. The old guys i work with like doug's site and old pictures of downtown how they remember when they were kids. They all talk like it was a bygone era.

I've been spending a lot of time using bing street view and google street view trying to find what's still standing and where the old buildings were. So i'm trying to remember a lot of buildings. I had assumed the tall building across from sandridge was the india temple, and wondered what the one on the corner was but that makes sense now. What's the one across from sandridge then?

I personally can't see a single reason for ever demolishing a piece of history. A city and a building is only what people choose to make of it. Were people considering tearing down the skirvin when it was in disrepair? Money and the economy are fleeting things, that go up and down over the years. Once a building is demolished, there goes the cities history and the legacy of those that worked to build it. I guess that's my rant that's formulated in my head lately.

i highly recommend visiting www.impeiokc.com

[UnFrSaKn]

I ran across this website linked on this forum some time ago, but before my interest really peaked. I had forgotten about it. When things thaw out, the co-workers will probably like to see it. Some of the photos I have seen from Doug's blog, retrometrookc and the OHS site but there are so many new ones.

[CaseyCornett]

I'll echo Sid and Metro...UnFrSakn, you are definitely not the only "young" one here.

I'm 28 (today).

[UnFrSaKn]

i highly recommend visiting www.impeiokc.com

Is that cupola (3:09) behind Philip Morris from the Baum building? (1:57) I read that one of them was preserved. What building is that being demolished? (4:47)

EDIT: Should Google first.







Here's another related article.

http://newsok.com/will-project-180-m...rticle/3494725

Doug's
http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2009/05...ry-center.html

[Patrick]

Yup, that's from the Baum building. See what we are missing out on. Look at the ornate detail. And now in place of it we have the ugly Century Center.

[UnFrSaKn]

Here's the OHS Flickr page
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oklahomahistory/page2/

I rarely visit Tulsa, but wow.

http://www.holyfamilycathedral.blogspot.com/

Street View

[euphjay]

I'll echo Sid and Metro...UnFrSakn, you are definitely not the only "young" one here.

I'm 28 (today).

25 years old here. Don't post often but I visit the site every day.

[earlywinegareth]

Yeah, it's really hard to believe people actually decided to tear down the Baum for the Century Center. Just shows how drastically different ideas about "progress" were. "Tear it down and build something new" was all people knew. The idea of saving something old b/c it was historically or architectually significant hadn't yet taken hold.

[Kerry]

Yeah, it's really hard to believe people actually decided to tear down the Baum for the Century Center. Just shows how drastically different ideas about "progress" were. "Tear it down and build something new" was all people knew. The idea of saving something old b/c it was historically or architectually significant hadn't yet taken hold.

Be nice.

http://www.newsok.com/a-look-back-at...lick=columnist

My sister and I had the run of the hotel that first week of January 1977. We were just kids — our father, Robert, was a partner in the development group that built the hotel and attached retail plaza.

[Steve]

Don't be nice. I think the Century Center is an abomination.

[UnFrSaKn]

Doug referenced this book on his blog and it's actually available on Google Books.

Oklahoma City: Statehood to 1930 By Terry L. Griffith

[ljbab728]

Here's the OHS Flickr page
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oklahomahistory/page2/

I rarely visit Tulsa, but wow.

http://www.holyfamilycathedral.blogspot.com/

Street View

Very similar to this:

http://stjosepholdcathedral.org/StJo...dCathedral.asp

It looks like it could have even been the same architect.

[CaseyCornett]

Don't be nice. I think the Century Center is an abomination.

HAHAHA. Meeeeee too.

[mburlison]

HAHAHA. Meeeeee too.

No more so than whatever they call the "Mummer's Theater" these days. I thought it was ugly then and it looks ridiculous now. IMHO of course.

[UnFrSaKn]

No more so than whatever they call the "Mummer's Theater" these days. I thought it was ugly then and it looks ridiculous now. IMHO of course.

http://www.artscouncilokc.com/history

http://www.seasonsofsoulfilm.com/Mummers_Theater.html

[ljbab728]

No more so than whatever they call the "Mummer's Theater" these days. I thought it was ugly then and it looks ridiculous now. IMHO of course.

I'm glad that's just your opinion. The Stage Center building is just as important in it's own way as the Baum Building was. It is an OKC icon. I hope they succeed in getting it restored after the flood damage. I started attending events there when it first opened and I was always fascinated by the building.

[mburlison]

I'm glad that's just your opinion. The Stage Center building is just as important in it's own way as the Baum Building was. It is an OKC icon. I hope they succeed in getting it restored after the flood damage. I started attending events there when it first opened and I was always fascinated by the building.

I doubt I'm the 'only' one w/ that opinion, but that why they say opinions are like.... elbows... everyone has one. .

[Patrick]

I don't like Century Center, but it would make a perfect space for a downtown department store like Macy's or Saks, or something similar.

And, if they've started removing the facade on the India Temple Building, has anyone noticed what's underneath? so are they going to remove the facade before they demolish the building? I sure hope so. Maybe we can see what's really under there. If the ornate detail is all "sawed off" then demolish it, but otherwise, if it's still present, let's change course and preserve it.