Case of the Sharpie Smuggler!

[Kerry]

This is why we home school. Good luck in your government run schools. May the force be with you.

[bombermwc]

OK, look. I went to MCHS also....they have had principals that want to work the no tolerance policies as much as anyone...it totally depends on the principal you deal with. The year after I graduated, they expelled a kid for having an exacto knife in his car....mind you this kid (who was an all-state wrestler) had been installing new speakers in his car and left all his equipment in the car. He didn't DO anything, in fact the police had to break INTO his car to find the knife, which was in a door compartment. The police dog inaccurately sniffed out drugs (which were never found on/in the car). His parents did sue the district and he ended up at Choctaw.

At the same time, there was a kid that was also nabbed for drugs a few years before that. He's sitting in history class with me, sees the jr. class principal look in with an officer, he jumps out the window (1st floor) and runs off. Officer and principal follow. Later you see him walking back in cuffs, with a black and mild hanging out of his mouth. The kid did time and came back later that school year. Did he learn anything? No.

So there are two examples of how something stupid became something huge and something much more important was sort of shrugged off.

But FYI - more to Kerry - I had a VERY safe and happy school experience the entire way through. We didn't have bullies, i didn't get made fun of really (and i was short, skinny, had glasses, and a temper...plenty of ammo), and had great friends. Played sports in and out of school. Most of my teachers were great, some sucked. But I got a good education that allowed me to go on to OCU for my degree and get a great job. So for me, that "government school" did very well.

[Kerry]

But FYI - more to Kerry - I had a VERY safe and happy school experience the entire way through. We didn't have bullies, i didn't get made fun of really (and i was short, skinny, had glasses, and a temper...plenty of ammo), and had great friends. Played sports in and out of school. Most of my teachers were great, some sucked. But I got a good education that allowed me to go on to OCU for my degree and get a great job. So for me, that "government school" did very well.

Schools aren't what they used to be. I'll let you guys debate what is wrong today and what casued it and how to fix it. We opted out and found our own solution.

[Thunder]

This is why we home school. Good luck in your government run schools. May the force be with you.

Home schooling is the worst fate a parent can put a child through. There are serious consequences with that including the lack of social and interaction among other people. It is a shame that a parent would do that. Most parents that does home schooling do not even possess a degree to teach, especially all levels and all those different courses.

Put a kid in any real school and watch them learn in a real way and succeed.

[FritterGirl]

Home schooling is the worst fate a parent can put a child through. There are serious consequences with that including the lack of social and interaction among other people. It is a shame that a parent would do that. Most parents that does home schooling do not even possess a degree to teach, especially all levels and all those different courses.

Put a kid in any real school and watch them learn in a real way and succeed.

Thunder, I hate to burst your bubble. Long gone are the days when home schooled children existed in a non-social bubble as you describe. Homeschool networks are plentiful, and parents regularly work with other parents not only on curriculum, but in organizing group field trips, sporting activities, dances, arts classes, etc.

Please go research test scores. Home schoolers often are beating national averages on SAT scores compared to public school students. Individualized attention and more advanced curricula, in addition to accelerated and/or more concentrated learning, are certainly advantageous in this regard.

Not all parents can afford this option, however, so must rely upon the public school system, which sadly, is hanging by threads. That's not to say children in public school don't succeed, for obviously they do, but homeschooling does have plenty of advantages.

[Kerry]

Home schooling is the worst fate a parent can put a child through. There are serious consequences with that including the lack of social and interaction among other people. It is a shame that a parent would do that. Most parents that does home schooling do not even possess a degree to teach, especially all levels and all those different courses.

Put a kid in any real school and watch them learn in a real way and succeed.

You have a lot to learn, a lot. However, your comment doesn't apply to me anyhow. My wife is a certified teacher in 3 states (Florida, Oklahoma, Georgia) for all subjects up to 9th grade. We have a dedicated classroom with equipment most schools only dream about. As soon as I assemble the new 2.5 inch Newtonian reflector telescope we can start some astronomy. Just remember when you have kids to tell them that Yes, my kids want fries with that.

Sorry gotta go, my son needs me to check his math work.

[dismayed]

Seems odd to me that this teacher's first reaction was to call the police. Seems even more odd to me that the principal of the school authorized it to proceed any further once the police showed up by allowing the teacher to sign the form that effectively threw a little kid in jail. Seems odd to me that the police would decide to enforce that and arrest a child. Seems odd to me that just several months ago police spokespersons were saying there is no such thing as a citizens arrest in the state of Oklahoma, but are now trying to say that is what happened here.

Want to hear something even stranger? The kid wasn't arrested for marking on the desk. He was arrested for being in violation of city ordinance 35-202 which states:

No person may possess an aerosol spray paint container or broad-tipped indelible marker on any private property unless the owner, agent, manager, or other person having control of the property consented to the presence of the aerosol spray paint container or broad-tipped indelible marker.

Source:

http://www.newsok.com/article/3525768

[dismayed]

So the next time a door to door salesperson knocks on my door if I see he has a magic marker in his shirt pocket I can tell him he is under a citizen's arrest and call 911?

[FritterGirl]

You have a lot to learn, a lot. However, your comment doesn't apply to me anyhow. My wife is a certified teacher in 3 states (Florida, Oklahoma, Georgia) for all subjects up to 9th grade. We have a dedicated classroom with equipment most schools only dream about. As soon as I assemble the new 2.5 inch Newtonian reflector telescope we can start some astronomy. Just remember when you have kids to tell them that Yes, my kids want fries with that.

Sorry gotta go, my son needs me to check his math work.

Kerry, there's no need to be smug about your situation. Not everybody is as fortunate as you seem to be in that they can homeschool, or be homeschooled. Be grateful you have the opportunity, but don't knock those that don't.

[Thunder]

What dismayed said. Now, the question is... Where and how did the student obtained the marker? If he got it from the teacher or it was available in the classroom, then technically by the city ordinance, he had full permission to possess and use the marker. If that can be determined, then the arrest was unlawful and unwarranted. Parents will need to sue the city and/or police department. The parents will also need to sue the school for allowing the situation to progress any further than possible punishment if the student actually was caught marking on the desk directly.

There are several scenarios that needs to be visited.

1. If the student obtained the marker from the teacher or it was readily available in the classroom, then by default, the permission is there for that student to use it. Therefore, an arrest should have not ever taken place.

2. If the student brought the marker to school, then what was the time frame of the student being visible with a marker and in use of it. If the teacher were aware, but did nothing until to the point of the desk situation, then the student had, by default, full permission.

3. The questioning regarding the teacher's overly exaggerated action. Did the student directly marked the desk, as accused, or was it just simply a case of accidental ink bleeding through the paper. The desk can be sent to a lab or however option is appropriate to determine if it was either one of the events or both. And the proper process of questioning nearby students as to what they had seen.

4. If the student was found to have marked the desk directly, then proper punishment should be done by the school only without the involvement of the police. If it was determined to be accidental, then no punishment should take place. The parents will need to obtain (hopefully if they are smart) the paper as evidence to compare against the desk to prove it was accidental, if that is to be the case.

I wonder where is that piece of paper. If the teacher and/or police took it and possibly destroyed it (or threw away) then it is such a suspicious action. It all comes down to just how smart and strong the parents are to protect this student, because in today's society, the public will almost always side with the school and officials.

The teacher is using the position to get away with it. The police is using the position to get away with it. The school is using position for whatever their sick agendas may be. Obviously, the police officer had the power right there to advise against the arrest and to suggest the school investigate the situation on their own. This school stinks, and so does the OKC police department. Just another reason for me to flip-off each OKC police car I drive by (as this is my way of expressing my Freedom of Speech right). If they want to cry about that, then so be it, I can sue them the instant they lay a finger on me.

We should not just sit by and do nothing. The general public obviously need to start an uproar protest. Hell, even start a donation drive to help replace the frickin' desk and to help relocate the boy to another school and/or district.

[kevinpate]

And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their arse when they jump.

[Kerry]

Kerry, there's no need to be smug about your situation. Not everybody is as fortunate as you seem to be in that they can homeschool, or be homeschooled. Be grateful you have the opportunity, but don't knock those that don't.

My reply was targeted directly at Thunder (and people that think like him).

[MustangGT]

My reply was targeted directly at Thunder (and people that think like him).

Wow Kerry you give him credit for independent/intelligent thought? You have more faith than I and many other members who prefer to remain silent do.

[Larry OKC]

So the next time a door to door salesperson knocks on my door if I see he has a magic marker in his shirt pocket I can tell him he is under a citizen's arrest and call 911?

At 1st was going to say "yup" but then according to this article, only if the salesman is a minor

http://www.newsok.com/district-respo...dlines_widget#

According to Oklahoma City ordinance, it is a misdemeanor for a minor to possess a spray paint or a permanent marker on public property without the supervision or permission of an adult.

Course this goes against the earlier one cited that said private property (unless there are 2 different ordinances)??

[bombermwc]

Kerry - I graduated from HS in 00, so it's not like I'm 80 or anything. Thunder - I think you aren't aware of a lot that goes on in the homeschool world these days. Basically, you are both a little right and wrong. Thunder - I've known quite a few homeschool kids (those that have graduated and those still in it, parents of them, etc). The co-ops are an even more specialized group with even more resources where parents teach a particular specialty. There is homeschool band/orchestra available. The kids play in homeschool sports (in fact things like basketball travel more to other states and get to see more than an public school kid does). Yes, there are some families that choose not to have their children interact in these other situations and leave them at home without the social world....and they have problems. But to say it's all homeschool's fault isn't fair. You've got kids in homeschool and public school that do well in their scores/social skills, and those that don't know what either is.

I don't think it's fair for either side to say one is better than the other. Some schools/districts do a great job...others stink. Same goes with homeschool groups/parents.

This particular case with the marker is one example of how there were a lot of poor decisions made on the part of the administration at that school. And to find an ordinance to punish the student shows that the administrators were looking for an excuse to make a stink about this....seeking media attention. Sometimes they think that shows they "mean business" to the other kids, when in reality, it just makes everyone think they are a "douchebag". Point in case, Rodney Stearns at U.S. Grant with his attendance policy. Small world, he was my 8th grade English teacher at Jarman in Mid-Del. His brother was the MCHS principal for years until recently when he moved to the warehouse (fewer night activities, less stress, more time off....man i'd take it too). The Stearns at MCHS was the one that brought the wrestler I spoke of up to a media stir in his first year as principal there. They are both very nice, and VERY supportive educators, and both do an excellent job. But sometimes (especially those new to that post) get carried away and make some poor decisions.