The Waterford

[icecold]

I have driven by The Waterford upteen hundred times, but tonight I looked at it differently for some reason. I was thinking it would be cool if it was about 12 stories higher full of some condo's. The area could maybe have a sandwich place and a coffee shop or something. Just seemed it could be a cool place for the younger crowd.

Then it dawned on me the irony that it is filled with all old people right next to the cemetery.


Then it got me wondering how the Classen and Founders Tower in OKC are doing, but thats another thread. (Lots of thought that drive)

[Steve]

Founders Tower? Not so good.... Classen doing fine since it was converted to apartments

[Architect2010]

I dunno if it's lights are for the holidays, but I like the pink and green neon lights up top. Make it look more modern and looked great with the lights of the Asian District in the foreground.

[cooper]

Founders Tower? Not so good.... Classen doing fine since it was converted to apartments

Why do you think Founders Tower isn't doing so well? I live there and love it. I think it was only about 50-60% capacity when I moved in last spring but judging by the increase in the cars parked in the parking garage and the number of residents that attended last month's mixer, they seem to be filling the place up. I'm not trying to be defensive, just curious.

[dwellsokc]

I dunno if it's lights are for the holidays, but I like the pink and green neon lights up top. Make it look more modern and looked great with the lights of the Asian District in the foreground.

I agree... the shade & shadow play is always great during the day, I think they should go bolder/crisper with the light scheme at night!

[OKCTalker]

Irony - you want irony? What about the Mansion assisted living center next to the cemetary. Their driveways are almost right next to each other!

The residential condos are both poorly-built and overpriced. What supports the value is location, security and address ("I live at Waterford"). I don't believe that any quality condo options exist in this part of town for affluent, older residents (CHK bought and will demolish King's Court, Sherwood Manor, Grandmark and one other NE of 63rd & Grand), so it's here or in a tight community like Harden Hill to the east.

Sandwich place or coffee shop? Go one mile east or west and you've got a plethora of options, respectively higher-quality and lower.

[BG918]

I am surprised there aren't more luxury senior condominiums in OKC. I think the market could support at least one new highrise for seniors wanting to downsize their homes but still live in a 'controlled environment'. Something like Montereau in Tulsa which was built by, and next to, St. Francis Hospital. They are currently building two new 8 story towers there. Something similar, maybe in the NW 63 & Western area, would probably do really well.

[Pete]

St. Martins has done well with the empty nest crowd.

[OKCTalker]

St. Martins has done well with the empty nest crowd.

But again, you've got marginal construction quality. I'm not naming names, but there's a common thread here...

BG918 - The problem with a development going in around 63rd & Western is that CHK has been buying all of the property within a mile of it. While the demand is certainly present, they've removed supply from the market. Ultimately they will provide it, but it will take more years and cost buyers dearly. I'm all for market forces working things out, but they're badly skewed right now.

[Rover]

But again, you've got marginal construction quality. I'm not naming names, but there's a common thread here...

BG918 - The problem with a development going in around 63rd & Western is that CHK has been buying all of the property within a mile of it. While the demand is certainly present, they've removed supply from the market. Ultimately they will provide it, but it will take more years and cost buyers dearly. I'm all for market forces working things out, but they're badly skewed right now.

We all know it was Givens who developed the properties in question.

At the time, these WERE quality for OKC in the condo market. Now they are dated in style and materials used for this type of development is generally higher.

As for attracting empty nesters, the current developments downtown and elsewhere aren't really designed for empty nesters who generally want flats. And, they don't want apartment type condos. They have been used to a little sophistication and would like to retain it, but don't want to get gouged. I actually think that if Founders was in MidTown or downtown with the same amenities they would do quite nicely.

[bluedogok]

We all know it was Givens who developed the properties in question.

At the time, these WERE quality for OKC in the condo market. Now they are dated in style and materials used for this type of development is generally higher.

Both of those are 20+ year old properties, so yes at the time they were high quality developments. So was his Monkey Island development on Grand Lake.

[Pete]

I wonder why Givens has stopped developing in OKC? He had a lot of successful projects; in addition to those already mentioned he also built The Hemingway, Nantucket and several others.

Would really like to see something like Hotel ZaZa (something he did in Dallas) in Midtown or nearby.

[OKCTalker]

Charlie's reputation was cast before he broke ground on Waterford, but nobody thought that he'd build at his previous level of quality for sale to his friends. Well, guess what? Every time it rained, the upstairs units flooded from above, and the downstairs units flooded through the floor vents. I know. Ask anyone who's ever lived in one of these projects, or a real estate agent who's been involved the sale of one.

Charlie has been busy developing hotels in Dallas and Houston. He lives in OKC, but is out of town a lot. He's currently a partner in a proposed local residential development, but it's got lots of opposition and may not go anywhere.

[icecold]

So was his Monkey Island development on Grand Lake.

Grand Lake is my stomping ground. Spent the first 18 years of my life there. I assume you are talking about Shangri La?

[bluedogok]

Grand Lake is my stomping ground. Spent the first 18 years of my life there. I assume you are talking about Shangri La?

No, he had a small development on or near Monkey Island that was done a little after Shangri-La was started. Years ago I knew of someone who used to own a condo in his development, that was 20+ years ago and I long forgot the name of it. We used to go up to Shangri-La every year when I was growing, I always liked the place. Kind of a shame to read what has happened to it over the years.

[Patrick]

Epworth Villa is a pretty darn nice upscale retirement community. Seems like there are retirement communities sprouting up everywhere. Am I missing something here?

[icecold]

No, he had a small development on or near Monkey Island that was done a little after Shangri-La was started. Years ago I knew of someone who used to own a condo in his development, that was 20+ years ago and I long forgot the name of it. We used to go up to Shangri-La every year when I was growing, I always liked the place. Kind of a shame to read what has happened to it over the years.

Gotcha. Ya, I worked at Shangri La in high school and never heard of that name before so I was wondering if it were that or somewhere else. Shangri La is undergoing some major rennovations right now. And by that I am meaning, bulldoze everything and are building some really nice new digs. The Vista Tower is still there, that was about the only thing saved. Hopefully it all stays on tract and becomes a really nice place again. (Saw Bruce Willis and Demi Moore and also Nancy Kerrigan there in the early 90s) Great, now I just want to play some golf and be on a boat.

[Pete]

The Givens project on Grand Lake was the Saint James Club, 48 free-standing cottages built in the mid-90's.

[MikeOKC]

Steve,

I live at Founders Tower and have no clue what you're talking about. Not so good? Ever since (unnamed) is out of the picture, tenancy has improved dramatically. The brothers in Tulsa are doing a good job. I really don't know what you meant by that statement. Those of us who own couldn't be happier. Could you tell us what you were referring to?

[stlokc]

Patrick-There is a huge difference between someplace like Epworth Villa and nice, upscale condos that appeal to empty nesters. My parents, for example, are in their early 60s and indicative of all their friends in that they want to downsize their big family house. But they travel, go out all the time, are constantly in motion and are at least 15 years away from someplace where the big deal is community dining, the daily bingo game and a van trip to the mall. I exaggerate, but not by much. There's a sweet spot of "older" people who have the means and the desire for a nice, easy to maintain place close to cultural activities, restaurants, etc. And guess what? They're not worried about the school district.

[MikeOKC]

Patrick-There is a huge difference between someplace like Epworth Villa and nice, upscale condos that appeal to empty nesters. My parents, for example, are in their early 60s and indicative of all their friends in that they want to downsize their big family house. But they travel, go out all the time, are constantly in motion and are at least 15 years away from someplace where the big deal is community dining, the daily bingo game and a van trip to the mall. I exaggerate, but not by much. There's a sweet spot of "older" people who have the means and the desire for a nice, easy to maintain place close to cultural activities, restaurants, etc. And guess what? They're not worried about the school district.

Yes! I agree with this. While in your 20's and 30's being in your 60's sounds "old." And at one time, that was certainly the case. But not anymore. Someone 63 or so has a good 20-30 years left (if not more based on new medical technology and advances over the next couple of decades). Especially if you're taking care of yourself. Pay no attention to life-span "averages" as they're based on statistics that may not apply to you at all.

[Steve]

Steve,

I live at Founders Tower and have no clue what you're talking about. Not so good? Ever since (unnamed) is out of the picture, tenancy has improved dramatically. The brothers in Tulsa are doing a good job. I really don't know what you meant by that statement. Those of us who own couldn't be happier. Could you tell us what you were referring to?

Maybe I'm in need of an update. Tower looked mostly dark when I was at Borders last month. Maybe I was just there on the wrong night Are they still trying to sell units, or have they switched to rentals?

[Spartan]

He lives in OKC, but is out of town a lot. He's currently a partner in a proposed local residential development, but it's got lots of opposition and may not go anywhere.

What residential project has a lot of opposition? The only one I can think of is the Lighthouse on Hefner, which I thought was long dead.

Or by locally did you mean Houston, like "Ashby highrise" ?

[dismayed]

What residential project has a lot of opposition? The only one I can think of is the Lighthouse on Hefner, which I thought was long dead.

That is such a shame too because I have always thought that condos on the lake would have been fantastic. I don't really understand the opposition... it is after all a man-made lake that is young by most geological standards. But they've won for the moment so I suppose there is nothing to understand, it's a done deal.

[metro]

Maybe I'm in need of an update. Tower looked mostly dark when I was at Borders last month. Maybe I was just there on the wrong night Are they still trying to sell units, or have they switched to rentals?

Is this the journalistic standard you use? If a place looks filled or not? Aren't you always bashing the anonymity of Internet posters for their sources, even though we have a pretty good track record on this site.