SandRidge Center & Commons

[Patrick]

The more I've read about this the more I realize that maybe tearing down these structures was probably the right call. It appears that the structures were beyond refurbishing based on reports from former employees at Kerr McGee and folks that actually went on the tour of these buildings. Structurally both Kerr Mac and India Temple weren't sound. I would liked to have seen them pull off the facade on India Temple to see what was underneath before they decided to destroy it. If indeed the historical facade was intact, I could see trying to refurbish it, but if all elements of the facade had been sawed off, I could see just demolishing it. Just because a building is old, doesn't mean it's historically significant. I definitely don't think there was anything historically pleasing about the KerrMac buildings. And in the end, maybe McDermid saw that. Regarding his comment, I think that might be due to uncertainty about what's really behind the facade on the India Temple Building. It will be interesting to see what the India Temple Building looks like when they start demolishing it. I would think that if these structures really were historically significant, Bob Blackburn would've stated so. I trust his judgement, even if he didn't tour the structures first-hand.

[Architect2010]

Some of you just don't get the bigger picture. It wasn't JUST about the demolitions and the buildings being historic or whatever.

[Kerry]

Some of you just don't get the bigger picture. It wasn't JUST about the demolitions and the buildings being historic or whatever.

Sadly they never will Arch2010. Some people see old scraps of cloth and others see Dolly Parton's Coat of Many Colors.

I recall a box of rags that someone gave us
And how my momma put the rags to use
There were rags of many colors
Every piece was small
And I didn't have a coat
And it was way down in the fall
Momma sewed the rags together
Sewin every piece with love
She made my coat of many colors
That I was so proud of


More lyrics: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/dolly+parton/#share

[hipsterdoofus]

Some of you just don't get the bigger picture. It wasn't JUST about the demolitions and the buildings being historic or whatever.

So... enlighten - rather than just bash people, explain your position (beyond the factors mentioned above). I would like more information.

[OKCisOK4me]

Actually, it's Westboro.

That's how I spelled it at first but it looked funny to me, just like their wack a$$ congregation...

Some of you just don't get the bigger picture. It wasn't JUST about the demolitions and the buildings being historic or whatever.

Waiting...

[Kerry]

So... enlighten - rather than just bash people, explain your position (beyond the factors mentioned above). I would like more information.

It doesn't matter - the buildings are coming down. In 5 years when there are not Sandridge employees frolicking in the urban sanctuary wearing togas and thinking deep thoughts (which is exactly how the project was sold) we will say "we told you so".

[Patrick]

So... enlighten - rather than just bash people, explain your position (beyond the factors mentioned above). I would like more information.

I think the point he/she is trying to make is that the point wasn't that they were historically significant. The point is that the buildings are being demolished and no new structures are going in their place. Well, I can see that point. But, also realize that those buildings were hindering the public's presence and blocking people-flow. Opening up that space does reduce density but it also opens up the area more for pedestrians. It encourages people to get out and meander the plaza and gardens. There can be too much density, so much that it chokes off the flow of pedestrians. I think that was the case with the Kerr McGee complex.

[Patrick]

It doesn't matter - the buildings are coming down. In 5 years when there are not Sandridge employees frolicking in the urban sanctuary wearing togas and thinking deep thoughts (which is exactly how the project was sold) we will say "we told you so".

Not sure we'll say "we told you so" about the buildings being demolished. Apparently the buildings weren't the most structurally sound and it would've taken millions to remove asbestos in the KerrMac building. With the state KerrMac was in, it would've been costly to refurbish, and I'm just not so sure there was enough historically significant architecture there to save. I think the main problem rests with the buildings not being replaced.

I mean Tannenbaum and McDermid both wanted to put housing in those buildings, but both admitted later that the proprerties had been so severely neglected from a structural standpoint that the cost of renovating them was really prohibitive. You could compare this to the Skirvin, but at least the Skirvin has some pretty significant architecture there.

[Kerry]

Opening up that space does reduce density but it also opens up the area more for pedestrians. It encourages people to get out and meander the plaza and gardens. There can be too much density, so much that it chokes off the flow of pedestrians. I think that was the case with the Kerr McGee complex.

And when the employees don't frolick in the urban sanctuary wearing togas and thinking deep thoughts we will tell you we told you so.

[betts]

Yeah, I would have been happy with a few tree wells. It's the street on which I used to walk west to the Art Museum and surrounds and the sidewalks were fine. I'd rather shop than meander and I suspect there won't be kiosks in the plaza.

[hipsterdoofus]

It doesn't matter - the buildings are coming down. In 5 years when there are not Sandridge employees frolicking in the urban sanctuary wearing togas and thinking deep thoughts (which is exactly how the project was sold) we will say "we told you so".

This is why it is impossible to have a decent discussion here....what kind of argument is that? I don't believe I ever said anything about Togas...You have an opinion about something. Having an opinion doesn't necessarily constitute a logical argument, which to mean should allow you the possibility of thinking that perhaps the other side could be right...

[Kerry]

This is why it is impossible to have a decent discussion here....what kind of argument is that? I don't believe I ever said anything about Togas...You have an opinion about something. Having an opinion doesn't necessarily constitute a logical argument, which to mean should allow you the possibility of thinking that perhaps the other side could be right...

You must not have heard Sandridge's justification for requesting approval of Sandridge Commons.

[metro]

Not sure we'll say "we told you so" about the buildings being demolished. Apparently the buildings weren't the most structurally sound and it would've taken millions to remove asbestos in the KerrMac building. With the state KerrMac was in, it would've been costly to refurbish, and I'm just not so sure there was enough historically significant architecture there to save. I think the main problem rests with the buildings not being replaced.

I mean Tannenbaum and McDermid both wanted to put housing in those buildings, but both admitted later that the
proprerties had been so severely neglected from a structural standpoint that the cost of renovating them was really
prohibitive. You could compare this to the Skirvin, but at least the Skirvin has some pretty significant architecture there.

You realize they have to remove the asbestos either way don't you?

[Patrick]

You realize they have to remove the asbestos either way don't you?

Hmmmm...didn't realize that.

[Larry OKC]

The removal either is is the way I have come to understand it...had to be removed from the old Mercy site before they tore it down and think it caused a delay in the old post office building (in the path of MAPS 3 "Park")

[Steve]

I mean Tannenbaum and McDermid both wanted to put housing in those buildings, but both admitted later that the proprerties had been so severely neglected from a structural standpoint that the cost of renovating them was really prohibitive.

This statement is incorrect. I spoke to both men. Tanenbaum was briefly interested in the Braniff and the Capitol Savings & Loan buildings, and yes, he later changed his mind about their feasibility. But McDermid was convinced through the end that both buildings could and should be renovated and that it wasn't prohibitive to do so. And it was McDermid who was on verge of doing just that before Kerr-McGee killed their agreement.

[Rover]

This statement is incorrect. I spoke to both men. Tanenbaum was briefly interested in the Braniff and the Capitol Savings & Loan buildings, and yes, he later changed his mind about their feasibility. But McDermid was convinced through the end that both buildings could and should be renovated and that it wasn't prohibitive to do so. And it was McDermid who was on verge of doing just that before Kerr-McGee killed their agreement.

Was McDermid's interest in the preserving the building itself, increasing density downtown, as a revenue property? Seems to me with so many vacant areas downtown that with his apparent commitment to creating downtown residential and maybe for developing with density downtown that he could still do so if he was really interested and capable of doing so. For the same cost he could build an architecturally significant residential property downtown. Rather than rue the fact it didn't work out for this building, why not go ahead and do something positive.

Sometimes the opportunity that isn't happening is romanticized and only SEEMs to be better than the one staring you in the face. The answer to making these old buildings more valuable is to build up the city around it to drive up the demand and value.

[Steve]

McDermid's interest was as a partner in a development group that had a sale contract w/ Kerr-McGee, had spent two years working on designs for conversion to housing, getting a TIF allocation for an attached garage, was wrapping up financing and, in his eyes, had the rug pulled out from the project when Kerr-McGee was sold to Anadarko Petroleum.
Name other buildings of this size in the CBD that are empty and available for conversion to housing.
On the flip side, McDermid and his partners never appeared eager to tackle the India Temple building ...

[hipsterdoofus]

You must not have heard Sandridge's justification for requesting approval of Sandridge Commons.

Perhaps - What I don't like is when someone on this board may want to look from other viewpoints, they are attacked as though they are the enemy...

Regardless of what Sandridge said, I am certain there are probably some decent arguments for both directions.

[metro]

Hmmmm...didn't realize that.

yep, its not as if they can tear the building down and let asbestos fly everywhere. Asbestos abatement always has to be done either way. Don't you remember recently that people were questioning the cost of abatement on the old red cross building on 10th, then after it was done, it torn down. Same thing here.

[Kerry]

Perhaps - What I don't like is when someone on this board may want to look from other viewpoints, they are attacked as though they are the enemy...

Regardless of what Sandridge said, I am certain there are probably some decent arguments for both directions.

I'll tell you what, in 5 years if Sandridge employees are seen frolicking daily in the plaza and the sight lines to Sandridge Tower are the talk of the town you can tell me, "I told you so".

[Patrick]

Not sure how the sight lines of Sandridge Tower are going to be anything of importance. The building is not that aesthetically pleasing.

[Architect2010]

Exactly his point.

[Pete]

Here is a recent photo:

[king183]

Does anyone know where I can find a graphic of all the buildings that will be demolished? I know Pete or someone posted one awhile back, but I can't find it.