Am I Wrong?

[bucktalk]

Due to several factors including: incompetence; poor management; massive loss of revenue and the internet providing email - I'm doubtful the Post Office will exist in ten years. Am I wrong? The past three years of service from our local post office has been horrific at best....and getting worse year after year.

[Spartan]

Not saying you're wrong, but this thread should be moved to the political forum where political debates should occur..

[bucktalk]

Not saying you're wrong, but this thread should be moved to the political forum where political debates should occur..

Political debate?? I'm speaking more of a changing culture and current post office service...not politics....

[PennyQuilts]

There are a lot of other carriers so I wouldn't be surprised to see the post office cut back but I doubt it will be gone. The Constitution allows for Post Offices and when you consider how vital it is that we have a postal system (checks, prescriptions, etc.), I can't see it going away.

[TaoMaas]

I agree with Penny. I think the Post Office will continue to exist, but perhaps not as we've known it. Daily delivery might become a thing of the past fairly quickly.

[Larry OKC]

Found it interesting that even during the days of the Pony Express and even before that, the average mail delivery time was a week. According to the Post Office, the average delivery time today is...wait for it
.
.
.
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5 to 7 days!

[krisb]

Yeah, and for a couple of quarters I can have a letter hand-delivered from my house to some yahoo in Wyoming.

[Bunty]

If the post office is going to keep Satuday delivery, it ought to remind people of that fact in their TV ads, because UPS does not deliver packages on Saturday.

[ljbab728]

If the post office is going to keep Satuday delivery, it ought to remind people of that fact in their TV ads, because UPS does not deliver packages on Saturday.

Not true, Bunty. UPS delivers on Saturday but with a surcharge.

[Bostonfan]

I've never really understood the disdain for the USPS. I shop online quite a bit, and the USPS is by far the best service for the price. They deliver Saturdays for no additional charge, almost all packages are delivered in 2-3 days no matter where it comes from, and I've never (knock on wood) had a problem receiving a package from the USPS. UPS is good, but it takes up to 5 days for delivery from the far NW and NE. Plus you pay extra for Saturday delivery. Not to mention the price is more than USPS for regular shipping. I'm with you Bunty, they should defiantly get that message out that they do deliver on Saturdays, even thought it may not last for long.

[TaoMaas]

I think the Post Office has a good chance of competing with the other package delivery services. It's the daily delivery to every household in America that's bankrupting them.

[BBatesokc]

I think the USPS will still be around, but it needs a major overhaul. I could see kiosks instead of so many post offices or more post offices combined with other types of business instead of dedicated space. Eliminate the union, cut down on the workforce and run it like a private business.

[Joe Daddy]

Eliminate the union, cut down on the workforce and run it like a private business.....

I'm always interested as to why people see unions as the boogey man whose elimination is the answer to so many problems. We all tend to forget our history when 10-12 hour days and 6 day work weeks at low wages was the standard. Most of us now enjoy a 5 day, 40 hour week, weekends off and overtime pay for non-management work..... Unions, at the price of many human lives were the catalyst of that change.

Further, union workers represent 12.3% of the workforce in the United States; that's 15.3 million people according to the USBLS. Hardly a threat to big business in America today, as is evidenced by the stagnant wages of most working Americans. I doubt all American unions combined have the revenue of even one Fortune 500 company.

And one more point...Article I, section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution grants congress the power to establish post offices and post roads, so the USPS is a constitutional entity, and not a private business, although the postal service has essentially been self supporting since the Postal Reorganization Act of 1971.

So lets not be so quick to discount the positive effects both unions and the USPS have had, and still have on our lives.

[BBatesokc]

I'm always interested as to people measure the usefulness of unions by the past. They served a purpose then, but as far as I see them they are an obstacle and a bully system. I say this having many family members and friends who are members of unions. One retired from the USPS, now deceased. The biggest fans of unions are those that are in them.

I loved when a former employer of mine shut the entire business down for three weeks when some of the workers tried to unionize a portion of the operation. When they stopped the union talk they were invited to return to work and earn their fair wage. But this is a whole different topic for another thread.

[Joe Daddy]

I'm always interested as to people measure the usefulness of unions by the past. They served a purpose then, but as far as I see them they are an obstacle and a bully system. I say this having many family members and friends who are members of unions. One retired from the USPS, now deceased. The biggest fans of unions are those that are in them.

I loved when a former employer of mine shut the entire business down for three weeks when some of the workers tried to unionize a portion of the operation. When they stopped the union talk they were invited to return to work and earn their fair wage. But this is a whole different topic for another thread.

Actually, I'm a management employee of a unionized organization. I also studied labor history and labor-management relations enough to clearly understand why we enjoy the working conditions we take for granted today. The union, although weak by historical standards, serves to remind management of years past. The union also serves to allow people to take their good wages and working conditions for granted.

Why did some of the workers want to unionize your former employer? Who defines a "fair" wage? There must have been a reason those employees wanted to unionize in the first place. Clearly, employers today have the upper hand, hence the owners ability to legally shut down his business, and "benevolently" invite those workers back at his defined "fair" wage.

Sadly, some day we will likely get your wish of zero unions, but you might not like the result. Be cautious what you wish for.

[BBatesokc]

Ewwww, cue the scary music!

[Midtowner]

Unions are part of free enterprise and freedom of contract. Workers can and should always be looking out for themselves. Of course, we all know the cautionary tale of the UAW. Sometimes unions can get to big for their britches and tank their companies, but so can executives with some of their excessive practices. At their best, unions are good for business. If you want to look at a really well run union, check out the Teamsters. At least locally, they're known to handle workplace discipline issues more effectively than management ever could.

At any rate, there's nothing scary or unamerican about collective bargaining. If employers would give employees a square deal in the first place, no one would want to even talk about unions. Everyone party to the business enterprise is there to make money, workers included. Why should they not try to get the best possible deal for themselves?

[Joe Daddy]

Unions are part of free enterprise and freedom of contract. Workers can and should always be looking out for themselves. Of course, we all know the cautionary tale of the UAW. Sometimes unions can get to big for their britches and tank their companies, but so can executives with some of their excessive practices. At their best, unions are good for business. If you want to look at a really well run union, check out the Teamsters. At least locally, they're known to handle workplace discipline issues more effectively than management ever could.

At any rate, there's nothing scary or unamerican about collective bargaining. If employers would give employees a square deal in the first place, no one would want to even talk about unions. Everyone party to the business enterprise is there to make money, workers included. Why should they not try to get the best possible deal for themselves?

Thanks for such a common sense post Midtowner. Unions certainly are not perfect, and have in some cases created their own demise. But we as a society are far better off with unions in our economic picture than without them. Too many employers take the attitude they are doing the worker a favor by employing them, but overlook the human being that is earning them a profit in return for a wage; it's a business deal, and employees are a critical part of the business relationship.

And more to the original topic, the Postal Service plays a critical role in many businesses, to the tune of billions of dollars per year. It has its own set of problems and they are working on it. They have already reduced their workforce by 15% in 2010, and are pushing their employees to increase productivity to the maximum, although the average citizen only sees the line in their local post office, or the letter carrier out past dark trying to get Christmas mail delivered. Rest assured it was a management decision, probably at the district level, to staff only two clerks at the counter when 4-5 are needed. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the local unions are pushing for better staffing which would better serve the public.

[BBatesokc]

Why should they not try to get the best possible deal for themselves?

I have no problem with trying to get the best deal for oneself - that's why most union member are so giddy. IMO though its like inviting in cats to clear out the rats. Before you know it, the cats are the problem. I was a member of a union when I worked for the state and I still don't like them. I truly admired the balls of my former employer when he shut the place down and said he would close down the business before he'd let unions in. It cost me a few weeks pay, but I didn't mind at all.

I'm sure their supporters could come up with a huge list of pros just as easily as the detractors could come up with a huge list of cons. My favorite personal examples are a guy I knew (father of a girlfriend) who worked for GM. He made $35+/hr. to sit and watch used wooden pallets burn. He was so bored he just read magazines all day and actually complained because he couldn't write them off on his taxes. This job could have been gladly done by someone for $10 hr and employed 3 people for the same money. I also remember a police officer caught having sex with a hooker in his patrol car while on duty and he was able to keep his job even though the department wanted him fired. When I worked for the state we had a guy who urinated all over a pallet of medical supplies because he was mad - he couldn't be fired. I caught my boss viewing porn on a state computer at Children's Hospital and making lewd comments about it (I had him on tape) and he couldn't be fired even though HR tried. There was a big stink about a postal worker years ago who had tons of complaints from co-workers and the public - so much so it made the news. He had been there for years and was making about $51,000/yr to work the counter. He couldn't be fired and wasn't. Though he was eventually moved. We've all been paying for two OCPD officers to sit at home and make $70,000 year plus benefits even though they did a drive by shooting a year and a half ago. The DA said they'd be treated like gangbangers for acting that way - I don't know any gangbangers that get paid to stay home, full benefits, and work a plea to drop charges if they will quit since firing them is pointless.

Admittedly I'm no scholar of unions etc., I simply go by my own experiences and a very limited exposure to some writings by someone named Friedman when I took a class at UCO.

[Joe Daddy]

Admittedly I'm no scholar of unions etc., I simply go by my own experiences and a very limited exposure to some writings by someone named Friedman when I took a class at UCO.

Most people have heard a union horror story or ten. I worked for two unionized organizations over the years, and at first refused to join either. I later discovered they were insurance against management abuses. Would you believe managers are just as human as union workers? Would you believe some managers have actually demand sexual favors from employees in exchange for promotions, or in order to remain employed? I witnessed that happen for years until the plant manager finally stepped up, under threat of a lawsuit and terminated the offending manager. For every union abuse that can be cited, an equivalent management abuse can also be cited; and to me, that's even more egregious given their leadership position and authority over the working lives of the hourly employees.

Union abuses happen, but is the answer eliminating all unions? Of course not. Many of these union abuses are the result of managers and supervisors who are either too lazy or incompetent to enforce the collective bargaining agreement, or are too overworked to be able to spare the time to follow the proper procedure of the disciplinary process. All collective bargaining agreements allow for disciplinary procedures and termination of employment. When management fails, as they often do, to follow the procedures they agreed to, then the union wins during the grievance procedure.

I once had a slacker union employee on the ropes, termination was imminent upon the next infraction. I had followed all procedures, dotted every "i" and crossed every "t", working with the union steward every step of the way. I was promoted to my current position and moved out of state, to Oklahoma, before the process was completed. As fate would have it, the slackers friend, who went to his church, assumed my former supervisory position. You can guess the outcome. This was a management failure, not a union victory, and I blame management for the continued employment of this slacker employee. From my experience, 9 out of 10 times, management fails to follow its own procedures, and then blames the union for its own incompetence. Of course, there's the 10% of the time that an arbitrator makes the bad decision to retain an employee that clearly should have been terminated for cause.

Unions have done much good for American workers. But too often, only the bad gets cited, and rarely is managements responsibility and culpability considered.

[bucktalk]

A huge burr under my saddle deals with apparent incompetency in at least our local postal employees. In our business we have a steady amount of outgoing mail. When we place outgoing mail in the mailbox on our building - the postal carrier will place new mail in the receptacle but seldom picks up the outgoing mail. In addition we have had as many as 25 letters which are delivered to our mail box with random addresses which were not even close to our address.

I certainly can understand the massive amount of mail they must deal with. I can understand human error taking place from time to time. But this issue has gone on for THREE years now. When I've tried to reach the local postmaster by phone it was virtually impossible. When I spoke with the mail carrier about so many constant mistakes they looked at me as though my thoughts really didn't matter.

Yeah - something needs to change....badly needs to change. I avoid the post office if at all possible.

[Joe Daddy]

A huge burr under my saddle deals with apparent incompetency in at least our local postal employees. In our business we have a steady amount of outgoing mail. When we place outgoing mail in the mailbox on our building - the postal carrier will place new mail in the receptacle but seldom picks up the outgoing mail. In addition we have had as many as 25 letters which are delivered to our mail box with random addresses which were not even close to our address.

I certainly can understand the massive amount of mail they must deal with. I can understand human error taking place from time to time. But this issue has gone on for THREE years now. When I've tried to reach the local postmaster by phone it was virtually impossible. When I spoke with the mail carrier about so many constant mistakes they looked at me as though my thoughts really didn't matter.

Yeah - something needs to change....badly needs to change. I avoid the post office if at all possible.

Send a detailed letter, including zip code, dates, etc. here:

Manager, Post Office Operations
4025 W RENO AVE
Oklahoma City OK 73125

Please post the response.

[Midtowner]

All of these union horror stories are because management made crappy deals with union leadership.

Why would you blame union leaders for getting management to sign onto such stupid deals as not being able to fire its own employees when they supremely effed up? Who is really to blame here?

[Matt]

Am I wrong?

You're not wrong, Walter; you're just an asshole.

[bucktalk]

Ahhh....so YOU'RE our postal carrier!!!