Case of the Sharpie Smuggler!

[MadMonk]

13yr old at Roosevelt Middle School arrested for possesion of a black Sharpie marker in class.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...ker-possession

Why didn't she just take it from him? What was he doing that constituted arresting him? Please, tell me there's more to the story.

[Spartan]

Maybe he was sniffing. Idk, but the goal in life for OCPS and OCPD has to be to make life as difficult as possible for poor inner city minorities. Glad I'm not them.

[kevinpate]

story version I saw was makring paper and it bled through to a desk and then he denied he had it.

what puzzled me is the citation relates to having an indelible marker on private property without consent of property owner.
I never really considered any of the public schools and grounds where my kiddos attended classes and enjoyed recess as being private property. Then again, I never considered a Sharpie to be an issue on any property.

[Thunder]

Public schools are not private properties and it is not illegal to possess markers such as this. Take a look at any stores, Walmart for example, sells these markers with no issue. I think this news story was a hoax.

[Larry OKC]

Public schools are not private properties and it is not illegal to possess markers such as this. Take a look at any stores, Walmart for example, sells these markers with no issue. I think this news story was a hoax.

Sometimes it is legal to sell something but illegal to buy it or have it. Hoax or not, it also ran as front page news in Wed's Oklahoman.

http://www.newsok.com/using-marker-a...rticle/3525768

A 13-year-old was arrested Friday in Oklahoma City, accused of violating a little-known city ordinance that prohibits possession of a permanent marker in some circumstances.

...the marker had bled through a piece of paper onto the desk and reported to a police officer that she also had seen the teen writing on the desk with the marker, the report said.

Not just a case of bleed thru but outright graffiti.

The ordinance is against BROAD TIPPED indelible markers (Marks A Lot) and most Sharpies are not in that category (thus the name Sharpie). On edit, it looks like Sharpie does make a broad tipped version "King Size".

Under City Ordinance 35-202, it is illegal for any person to possess spray paint or a permanent marker on private property without the permission of the property owner.

“No person may possess an aerosol spray paint container or broad-tipped indelible marker on any private property unless the owner, agent, manager, or other person having control of the property consented to the presence of the aerosol spray paint container or broad-tipped indelible marker,” the ordinance reads.

The law appears to be directed at curbing graffiti and is under the nuisance chapter of city ordinance.

But as Thunder correctly pointed out, are public schools considered private property? Why does the ordinance specify private property and seemingly exclude or make it legal to have it on public property?

[Thunder]

Larry, this looks like your news story to investigate. First, I would like to know the school's policy on this. Second, what was the boy doing on paper. And third, anything else you can think of. I think the parents will be capable of suing the school and the police for allowing the arrest. This is more along the line of an accident in this case, a marker's ink went through the paper onto the desk. But for real, this boy should have never been arrested in the first place.

[Larry OKC]

Thunder:

Except it wasn't just a case of bleed thru, the teacher also said she saw him writing directly on the desk too.

Seems city ordinance would over ride any school policy that might be in place (they said they would investigate it after the holiday break). Just as state law over rides city ordinances and federal law over rides state.

What the boy was doing on the paper seems to be irrelevant unless it was an assignment, especially if the marker in question was part of the school supply list for that class (which would be a legal use according to the ordinance). This was something sort of alluded to in the linked story at the start of the thread that mentioned the teachers:

...Facebook page reveals that her “likes and interests” include the official “Sharpie Permanent Markers” page on Facebook...

[Thunder]

The parents will need to demand a copy of the paper and photograph of the desk. If there was anything more on the desk than what was written on paper, then at most the student should have received is a suspension. If the student obtained the marker from a teacher, then the case will tip greatly in the student's favor, but it all depend if the desk has more ink than the paper. If the police refuse to cooperate, then the case should be thrown out and the boy should be released. The parents may probably need to settle for the suspension, but will need to file for a transfer to another school to avoid the teacher in question. Also keep a print out copy of the teacher's Facebook page. I also would like to see the police officer involved with the arrest to be suspended without pay (but police tend to love suspension with pay) until the investigation is done. What the officer should have done was to reject the arrest and recommend the school to take action (by contacting the parents, discussing what happened, and determine if there was any wrongdoing).

[MadMonk]

Thunder:

Except it wasn't just a case of bleed thru, the teacher also said she saw him writing directly on the desk too.

But, here's my question. Why did she have him arrested? It seems to me that the punishment is far worse than what the "crime" calls for.

If that happened when I was in school, the offender would have been sent to the principal's office and perhaps suspended. People used to carve stuff into their desks and they would just get detention if caught. Of course, this is back when a school didn't go on lockdown because someone had a pocket knife, but still...

[David]

Using marker at school leads to OKC teen’s arrest

Perhaps parents need to check supply lists and backpacks before sending their students back to school after winter break.

A 13-year-old was arrested Friday in Oklahoma City, accused of violating a little-known city ordinance that prohibits possession of a permanent marker in some circumstances.

The teen was caught using a permanent marker at Roosevelt Middle School by a teacher, according to the crime report filed with the Oklahoma City Police Department.

Delynn Woodside noted the marker had bled through a piece of paper onto the desk and reported to a police officer that she also had seen the teen writing on the desk with the marker, the report said.


Read more: http://newsok.com/using-marker-at-sc...#ixzz19yMEM7aL

Anyone know any more details about this?

[Thunder]

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=24106

[bombermwc]

Exacttly, what happened to losing recess, going to the principal's office, or any number of the things you can do for punishment? I would bet there's more to the story, otherwise it's a school on a power trip trying to make an example out of something really stupid.

[BBatesokc]

I agree, an odd way of handling the situation. When our son was going to MWC High School they seemed to be more level headed even though it could be a rough school. Our son got in a bit of trouble that could have been blown way out of proportion if the school wanted to. He got jealous when his girlfriend and him had broken up and she was hugging and flirting with someone else - typical high school drama. Not thinking and trying to blow off stem and not get into a fight he punched a window in the school and it broke. It happened within eyesight of MWC police who are typically on campus at lunch, etc. He certainly could have arrested him and some sort of vandalism charge etc. could have been levied. Instead, the cop saw how shocked our son was at what he had done, he took him to the office, the office called us, we went in, and the school decided to give him a couple of days of in school detention and have him pay for the window. They didn't even put it in his school records because they didn't want to effect him going to college. He learned his lesson an never had a bit of trouble at school again.

Schools need to give teachers the ability to paddle again and try level headed approaches instead of going overboard on these situations.

[Kerry]

But, here's my question. Why did she have him arrested? It seems to me that the punishment is far worse than what the "crime" calls for.

If that happened when I was in school, the offender would have been sent to the principal's office and perhaps suspended. People used to carve stuff into their desks and they would just get detention if caught. Of course, this is back when a school didn't go on lockdown because someone had a pocket knife, but still...

Being arrested is not punishment. The kid will have his day in court. It is sad that law enforcment has to be involved at all but when you have a society so devoid of a sense of right and wrong what do you expect.

[David]

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=24106

Thank you, that is what I was looking for.

[BBatesokc]

Being arrested is not punishment.

Actually, being arrested is a form of punishment and law enforcement and prosecutors know it. I've personally seen many examples where police arrest an individual and take them to jail because they know if they simply did a report or even a ticket that the city or county will most likely decline the charge. So, the cop arrests the person to enact their own punishment.

Also, being arrested deprives the person of their freedom from detainment (from hours to days or even weeks), usually requires money to be put up that will not be returned even if no charges are ever filed, legal fees if they consult an attorney, a public document of the arrest is generated, public ridicule, stress, etc. So, yes, it is a punishment.

The kid will have his day in court.

Hardly. 85% or more of criminal cases NEVER go to trial. Also, it isn't like an episode of Law and Order - 'Your day in court' comes at great expense regardless of guilt or innocence.

[MustangGT]

Schools need to give teachers the ability to paddle again and try level headed approaches instead of going overboard on these situations.

Very much AGREE. When the schools made the uninformed/ignorant decision of NO TOLERANCE they threw common sense out the window. How many cases have we read about where a student is severly penalized for possessing nail clippers with an extendable blade, fishing knife in the bed of a pickup etc.

[Thunder]

I agree, an odd way of handling the situation. When our son was going to MWC High School they seemed to be more level headed even though it could be a rough school. Our son got in a bit of trouble that could have been blown way out of proportion if the school wanted to. He got jealous when his girlfriend and him had broken up and she was hugging and flirting with someone else - typical high school drama. Not thinking and trying to blow off stem and not get into a fight he punched a window in the school and it broke. It happened within eyesight of MWC police who are typically on campus at lunch, etc. He certainly could have arrested him and some sort of vandalism charge etc. could have been levied. Instead, the cop saw how shocked our son was at what he had done, he took him to the office, the office called us, we went in, and the school decided to give him a couple of days of in school detention and have him pay for the window. They didn't even put it in his school records because they didn't want to effect him going to college. He learned his lesson an never had a bit of trouble at school again.

Schools need to give teachers the ability to paddle again and try level headed approaches instead of going overboard on these situations.

You should send the school in question a letter about how wonderful the MWCHS dealt with a problem child.

I once broke a dorm window at OSD and did not get a serious punishment. I was surprised and the others around me cheered. lol

[BBatesokc]

You should send the school in question a letter about how wonderful the MWCHS dealt with a problem child.

They know we are appreciative. We are not the type of parents who blindly defend our children. He knew he did wrong, he didn't make any excuses and we told him and the principal we'd stand behind whatever the school decided. We were told though they weighed the fact our son had no prior problems, had good grades, admitted wrongdoing and that they knew he would be paying for the repairs from his job and not us.

Kids make mistakes - but that doesn't always give adults the right to compound them and make it worse.

[Thunder]

They know we are appreciative. We are not the type of parents who blindly defend our children. He knew he did wrong, he didn't make any excuses and we told him and the principal we'd stand behind whatever the school decided. We were told though they weighed the fact our son had no prior problems, had good grades, admitted wrongdoing and that they knew he would be paying for the repairs from his job and not us.

Kids make mistakes - but that doesn't always give adults the right to compound them and make it worse.

You misunderstood. Send a letter to Roosevelt Middle School detailing how level headed MWCHS was when they dealt with your son. They will feel very stupid for involving the police, arresting the student, and exposing it all on national media. Also send a letter to the school board and demand that action to be taken toward those at Roosevelt Middle School involved for blowing a minor situation out of proportion. You are well known nationally and they will be afraid of you. Also inform them about the discussion going on here.

[BBatesokc]

You misunderstood. Send a letter to Roosevelt Middle School detailing how level headed MWCHS was when they dealt with your son. They will feel very stupid for involving the police, arresting the student, and exposing it all on national media. Also send a letter to the school board and demand that action to be taken toward those at Roosevelt Middle School involved for blowing a minor situation out of proportion. You are well known nationally and they will be afraid of you. Also inform them about the discussion going on here.

Ah, I reread your post and see where you were going. I doubt any correspondence from me would have any effect whatsoever.

[SOONER8693]

Holy crap. You folks obviously have nothing else to do. "Debating" this, OMG.

[Thunder]

Ah, I reread your post and see where you were going. I doubt any correspondence from me would have any effect whatsoever.

Well, it is too late to undo their action, but they will feel really stupid, embarrassed, and guilty. I just hope the parents can sue.

[dankrutka]

Just like any areas in life, some schools are run by reasonable administrators with the best interest of students in mind and others are run by administrators that are on a constant power trip and try to control everything. Even if the kid was writing on the desk with a sharpie on purpose, the punishment was way out of line. This type of unreasonable punishment could actually lead to more problems for that child. This is similar to Aztecs ridiculous dress code that punishes anyone with any extra slack in their pants (which means that all the pants I wear would be against dress code... One girl on the news was in violation wearing scrubs from her job at the hospital). In cases like this administrators punished (in many cases) poor kids who can't afford more clothes and makes kids actually want to drop out. It boggles the mind.

[bluedogok]

Very much AGREE. When the schools made the uninformed/ignorant decision of NO TOLERANCE they threw common sense out the window. How many cases have we read about where a student is severly penalized for possessing nail clippers with an extendable blade, fishing knife in the bed of a pickup etc.

Much of that was done so administrators didn't have to use judgment, they could just point to a rule and say it was out their hands thereby relieving them of the responsibility of making a decision. I know some school level administrators and teacher who have the fact that school boards and district admins have done that in their districts. Many times it is driven by legal staffs trying to protect the district from the parents because a decision made by a lower level admin without a hard and fast rule can be used by parents in lawsuits. It is all a result of people not using common sense which doesn't seem to be so common anymore.