Automobile Alley

[BBatesokc]

My parents live in Austin and the only time her car has ever been hit in a parking lot was from some señor-citizen (elderly Hispanic man). And of course he tried to speed off. Good thing his tag was facing the window where the witnesses were sitting inside having lunch.

[Kerry]

I just don't agree with the plan. It's differences of opinion, and I'm not the decision maker, so i'll lose.

I'm just trying to figure out what your opposition to it is.

[Architect2010]

Me as well. They said it'd just be restriping and repainting.

[BDP]

What's interesting is that parking seems to be a big reason why we can't get a decent retail district in the city. The funny thing is, is that it's not because there isn't enough of it, it's because there is too much of it in front of and between retail locations.

Retail works, especially specialty retail, when there is a high enough density of shops that they feed each other. The more convenient you make it for someone to park at one location, go in, buy, and leave, the worse you actually make it for retail as a whole in the area. In addition, in order to create this convenience, you end up separating the stores even further and destorying any benefit any of the stores have of being in the same location.

We have killed most of our old retail districts by tearing down buildings in large part for parking. However, we know people will park a good distance away from retail if there is enough access to a variety of retail once their initial walk is completed. This is how every mall in America works.

So, it may actually be better to make front door parking less convenient if it helps enable the increasing of the density of stores and ease of access from one shop to another. Any shopping in the core will have to be destination shopping for it to work. And the only way that destination shopping can work is in a high density pedestrian friendly environment where people go to shop at several stores, not just one or two, and spend some time in the area.

All that being said, I still don't see any sign that Broadway has been set up for any kind of serious retail district. It is still pretty fragmented, imo.

[BG918]

What's interesting is that parking seems to be a big reason why we can't get a decent retail district in the city. The funny thing is, is that it's not because there isn't enough of it, it's because there is too much of it in front of and between retail locations.

Retail works, especially specialty retail, when there is a high enough density of shops that they feed each other. The more convenient you make it for someone to park at one location, go in, buy, and leave, the worse you actually make it for retail as a whole in the area. In addition, in order to create this convenience, you end up separating the stores even further and destorying any benefit any of the stores have of being in the same location.

We have killed most of our old retail districts by tearing down buildings in large part for parking. However, we know people will park a good distance away from retail if there is enough access to a variety of retail once their initial walk is completed. This is how every mall in America works.

So, it may actually be better to make front door parking less convenient if it helps enable the increasing of the density of stores and ease of access from one shop to another. Any shopping in the core will have to be destination shopping for it to work. And the only way that destination shopping can work is in a high density pedestrian friendly environment where people go to shop at several stores, not just one or two, and spend some time in the area.

All that being said, I still don't see any sign that Broadway has been set up for any kind of serious retail district. It is still pretty fragmented, imo.

I've always loved this quote by James Castle:

Anyplace worth its salt has a 'parking problem'

[Spartan]

If this is part of the project to take Broadway from 4 to 2 lanes, then I'm totally against it. Parking or not (which I might add, I've NEVER had a problem finding parking down there....ever). You might have to walk a few more feet once you do park, but you still walk less then somewhere like a mall. And heaven forbid people get off their fat butts and walk somewhere in OKC....wouldn't want them to work off those big macs or anything. Ugh.

Bomber.

Parking has not been a problem while the majority of attractions in A-Alley have been Coffee Slingers and Schlegel's. It will get tighter when Hideaway opens. It is visionary to seek a parking solution and have a large number of parking spots available because national retailers will want vital numbers, such as number of free parking spaces within 4/5 blocks, for example.

Broadway needs to be narrowed because it is too wide. It is basically 6 lanes of cars and there is never any traffic on it backed up further than 5 cars. It is another 4-lane road that OKC does not need. It would be more efficient not to mention safer to use some of that right-of-way to redo the parking and add a turning lane in the middle, and bringing it down to one lane for traffic in each direction. This will be more pedestrian friendly and more conducive toward a people-oriented environment in A-Alley.

It will not cost very much. They are not redoing the streetscape there at all. This will just involve re-striping and although they left it out, they'll also probably have to redo the lights unless they want to have dedicated right-turn lanes at intersections as well, which cuts down on the number of parking spaces you can get on the street. Having a dedicated right-turn lane would also make it less ped-friendly because the road would be widest at intersections, whereas you want it to be narrowest where you want to encourage people to safely cross which is why in most downtowns there are bump-outs and narrowed lanes and stuff of that sort at intersections with pedestrian crossings.

If this is successful in A-Alley they should export the idea to elsewhere downtown. Having more efficient street parking might even hopefully be able to shut down the Bricktown parking lot operators if there is no need for them.

[ljbab728]

If this is part of the project to take Broadway from 4 to 2 lanes, then I'm totally against it.

I could be wrong but I've not seen any official proposal to make Broadway 2 lanes.

[Spartan]

That would be the re-striping. There won't be any changes to Broadway that require reconstruction. The current right-of-way is mostly dedicated to automobile through traffic (which is really quite minimal through Automobile Alley) and the only change proposed here is just redesignating lanes to make parking a more important part of Broadway.

[bombermwc]

Hey i'm not trying to make a big stink about it or anything...no feathers ruffled here or anything. Like I said before, it's a project I don't agree with, but big whoopie. It's not like I'm going to start picketing to get them to stop or anything. Kerry - I just flat out don't agree with the interpretation of the situation...it's that simple. Difference of opinion is all. They wanna go forward with it, not like I'im going to stop them...I just think it's dumb.

[BG918]

Here is an example from Kansas City on McGee Street:

[okclee]

The sign says, It's as easy as 1-2-3 ; Signal, Stop, Reverse. lol

Okc will be sure to add a Step #4, pay at the meter.

[Spartan]

Hey i'm not trying to make a big stink about it or anything...no feathers ruffled here or anything. Like I said before, it's a project I don't agree with, but big whoopie. It's not like I'm going to start picketing to get them to stop or anything. Kerry - I just flat out don't agree with the interpretation of the situation...it's that simple. Difference of opinion is all. They wanna go forward with it, not like I'im going to stop them...I just think it's dumb.

Well, the posts in contrast to yours haven't been personal. It's just that I sincerely believe that if people really think about it and get to know how back-in parking really works, then they won't be so against it. I am anxious for you to test that little theory of mine, if you'd like to. There have been any number of posts directed toward you that you can chose to actually respond to.

[bombermwc]

Ugh...I'm not against back-in-parking. I prefer it over the angle-pull-in. What I don't agree with is the application on Broadway. I spent years in the year going to different places in my days at OCU. We went to art galleries (actually performed at one too), went to events down there, shopped, etc. Never once did i have to "circle" to get a parking spot...and at various times of day. They keep talking about wanting to make it a pedestrian friendly area, but it already is. The traffic isn't high enough to make it any more or less dangerous to cross whether it's 2 or 4 lanes. Not to mention the fact that if you cross, you're supposed to do it at a crosswalk anyway....at which you have a light to help you. If you are looking for a parking spot....they're all over the place, they just aren't street-side....big whoopiedoo. I don't feel it adds anything for the city to do the work, sorry.

And Spartan, that's just personal opinion. Like I said, i'm not trying to ruffle feathers, but it you keep pushing, that's the result you get. I don't agree with the project and never will. You don't have to spend time convincing me or waiting for some magical answer....i don't agree with the project and that's that. But, who says that has any impact on what happens? If it's important enough to the right people, it will get done. Doesn't make it correct, but my opinion doesn't make it wrong either.

[BoulderSooner]

the parking situation years ago .. is not the same as today .. and not what we will need in the future or to attract new business.

[Kerry]

Ugh...I'm not against back-in-parking. I prefer it over the angle-pull-in. What I don't agree with is the application on Broadway. I spent years in the year going to different places in my days at OCU. We went to art galleries (actually performed at one too), went to events down there, shopped, etc. Never once did i have to "circle" to get a parking spot...and at various times of day. They keep talking about wanting to make it a pedestrian friendly area, but it already is. The traffic isn't high enough to make it any more or less dangerous to cross whether it's 2 or 4 lanes. Not to mention the fact that if you cross, you're supposed to do it at a crosswalk anyway....at which you have a light to help you. If you are looking for a parking spot....they're all over the place, they just aren't street-side....big whoopiedoo. I don't feel it adds anything for the city to do the work, sorry.

Thanks for the clarrification Bombermwc.

[Spartan]

Ugh...I'm not against back-in-parking. I prefer it over the angle-pull-in. What I don't agree with is the application on Broadway. I spent years in the year going to different places in my days at OCU. We went to art galleries (actually performed at one too), went to events down there, shopped, etc. Never once did i have to "circle" to get a parking spot...and at various times of day. They keep talking about wanting to make it a pedestrian friendly area, but it already is. The traffic isn't high enough to make it any more or less dangerous to cross whether it's 2 or 4 lanes. Not to mention the fact that if you cross, you're supposed to do it at a crosswalk anyway....at which you have a light to help you. If you are looking for a parking spot....they're all over the place, they just aren't street-side....big whoopiedoo. I don't feel it adds anything for the city to do the work, sorry.

And Spartan, that's just personal opinion. Like I said, i'm not trying to ruffle feathers, but it you keep pushing, that's the result you get. I don't agree with the project and never will. You don't have to spend time convincing me or waiting for some magical answer....i don't agree with the project and that's that. But, who says that has any impact on what happens? If it's important enough to the right people, it will get done. Doesn't make it correct, but my opinion doesn't make it wrong either.

Right. I do not feel like your feathers are ruffled, or at least not more than usual, and mine certainly aren't, again at least not more than usual. With that said it seems like the only thing you don't agree with is that anything needs to be done with parking on Broadway, and here you have a point.

I don't strongly feel one way or another, but I do think if you can make an improvement, you might as well do that, even if common says if it aint broke, don't fix it. I think the idea that McDermid and the A-Alley people have is that it is broke even though it doesn't seem like it. They're trying to attract national retailers who want to see a LOT more free parking than there currently is, despite that finding parking has never been an issue on Broadway. It's the same thing with Bricktown, so it will be interesting to see if we can implement this in different places and if public opinion might actually begin to reflect the utter over-abundance of parking that is actually available downtown.

I can't say for sure, I haven't been on the line when (and if) they've tried calling GAP and Urban Outfitters and talks stopped at the need for more free public parking. I will say that N. Broadway needs a lot more activity, it's always had incredible potential and been a really nice corridor, but not a highly utilized one unfortunately. I could easily see Automobile Alley morph into something a lot like Mass Street in Lawrence--a lot of the buildings and street corners remind me of each/other. Both have a classy, upscale feel. Mass St has ample public parking and GAP/UO/Starbucks/etc which bring in a lot of activity that supports the overwhelming majority of local shops.

[bombermwc]

OK not trying to be a crapface here...but someone just mentioned on another thread how the Cityscape is being displayed at 10th and Broadway this year and how much easier it was to park there than at Penn Square last year. I'm not doing a "told you so" or anything, just showing I'm not the only one out there that thinks parking is fine down there. OK, not I'll shut up on this one and move on....

[OKCMallen]

There will have to be an awful lot of successful development for parking to become a problem in AA.

[Kerry]

There will have to be an awful lot of successful development for parking to become a problem in AA.

If a new parking style helps drive that successful development hopefully parking wil never become a problem.

[Architect2010]

OK not trying to be a crapface here...but someone just mentioned on another thread how the Cityscape is being displayed at 10th and Broadway this year and how much easier it was to park there than at Penn Square last year. I'm not doing a "told you so" or anything, just showing I'm not the only one out there that thinks parking is fine down there. OK, not I'll shut up on this one and move on....

Penn Square and Broadway are completely different monsters. Besides, it's already been pointed out that a big decision to move the Cityscape to 10th was for ease of access.

[CS_Mike]

OK not trying to be a crapface here...but someone just mentioned on another thread how the Cityscape is being displayed at 10th and Broadway this year and how much easier it was to park there than at Penn Square last year. I'm not doing a "told you so" or anything, just showing I'm not the only one out there that thinks parking is fine down there. OK, not I'll shut up on this one and move on....

Even if parking isn't really a problem down there, I don't think you should underestimate the psychological benefits of implementing street-side parking. If you see cars lining both sides of the street, you're probably more likely to associate that visual with "activity". The area will look more lively, even if there aren't many people on the sidewalks. Hopefully that will help to attract more visitors to the area. Nobody wants to visit an area that looks dead.

[Spartan]

OK not trying to be a crapface here...but someone just mentioned on another thread how the Cityscape is being displayed at 10th and Broadway this year and how much easier it was to park there than at Penn Square last year. I'm not doing a "told you so" or anything, just showing I'm not the only one out there that thinks parking is fine down there. OK, not I'll shut up on this one and move on....

No, we agree. Parking is NOT a problem in A-Alley. But there is not enough free parking spaces to attract retailers. So that's the only problem with parking.

[Kerry]

Even if parking isn't really a problem down there, I don't think you should underestimate the psychological benefits of implementing street-side parking. If you see cars lining both sides of the street, you're probably more likely to associate that visual with "activity". The area will look more lively, even if there aren't many people on the sidewalks. Hopefully that will help to attract more visitors to the area. Nobody wants to visit an area that looks dead.

If you need first hand proof of this just watch traffic slow down on the interstate to watch some guy change his tire on the side of the road.

[okclee]

Let's get the City to buy up a few thousand cheap used cars and place them all over Auto Alley?

[Kerry]

Let's get the City to buy up a few thousand cheap used cars and place them all over Auto Alley?

You make fun, but that is actaully a tried and true marketing strategy. I have used it myself on several occasions. It goes by the street name of "fake it till you make it".