Automobile Alley

[okclee]

You're kidding, right?

I have good sources that are telling me of two properties that are being targeted for demolition, then parking lots.

I can not say exactly which properties, but they are currently for sale and if they are sold to a particular group they will be demolished for parking.

These buildings are located in Mid-Town, not Auto-Alley. Either way I am sickened to think about the buildings being razed for a surface parking lot.

[Spartan]

Are you talking about Mickey Clagg's plans for parking for his lofts and retail that's about to be finished on 10th between Robinson and Hudson?

[bluedogok]

OKC will never learn. Tearing down old buildings for parking lots? Is this some kind of sick joke? I'm without words...

Newsflash to anyone here whining about parking: Our urban districts already have WAY more parking than other cities. Automobile Alley looks like a hockey players mouth & Bricktown is almost nothing but parking(look at the aerials).

It isn't just OKC, it is pretty much the case in most cities outside the northeast corridor or Chicago.

When I lived in Dallas there was an article in Texas Architect magazine about downtown Dallas (where I worked at the time). It was discussing how the 80's bust and subsequent loan defaults and bankruptcies created a situation where surface parking lots were being created at an alarming rate, at the time (1992) about 40% of the land in the Dallas CBD was surface parking. Some of it was from blocks that had been leveled for new buildings that were never built but most were due to the Texas/Dallas County property tax situation, it was cheaper to tear down an existing structure and "convert" it to surface parking. The reason why was it would now be taxed as an "unimproved property" at a much, much lower rate than an existing, vacant building. The parking revenue could not even cover demolish but the tax abatement could.

Now I know that the tax situation is somewhat different in Oklahoma, but vacant downtown properties and surface parking are not unique to OKC. I know there is plenty of it all of the Texas cities and in places like KC and Denver. Some of those markets have done better in recent years of infilling those lots but there is still an abundance in most of them.

[Spartan]

It would be interesting to analyze what kind of effect switching from income to a property-based tax system for state revenues would have on urban infill..

[jbrown84]

Google's imagery must be out of date then. Glad they got that lot cleaned up, guess it would make a perfect candidate for surface parking lot once the holidays are over!

The tree lot is only a small part of the lot. The rest is already a gravel parking lot.

Newsflash to anyone here whining about parking: Our urban districts already have WAY more parking than other cities.

Even in sprawling LA you have to park sometimes blocks away on neighborhood streets to go to popular restaurants and bars. It seems the only situation where this is considered acceptable here is when you go to a game in Norman.

[Kerry]

Steve had interesting article this morning about Automobile Alley. While an area of downtown being identified as a "potential" retail hotspot is nothing new, the concept of back-in angled parking caught my attention. I love this idea and would like to see it incorporated into Project 180 for all of downtown. Apparently, this is how parking was done in OKC in the early days.

http://www.newsok.com/automobile-all...ad_story_title

Part of Automobile Alley proposal calls for consideration of “back-in” angled parking that would have drivers back into spots with the front of their cars pointing back into the street.

“We think the experience of other cities shows that backed in angled parking is safer than head-in 45-degree parking, which is more common here in Oklahoma,” McDermid said. “Historically on Broadway, there was 45-degree back-in angled parking. Maybe our forefathers knew something.”

McDermid said back-in angled parking allows drivers to back out of their spots in a forward direction, see cyclists on the road, and creates a “shield” with door directions preventing children from going into the street.

“The important thing to us, and to the city, is all that what we are proposing is new striping and signing — not a major cost in terms of infrastructure,” McDermid said. “It's relatively inexpensive and our engineering shows we will not significantly impact the performance of the street when it comes to carrying traffic.”

A quick internet search reveals that several communites around the world have had great success with this type of parking (except Syracuse, NY - where people had a difficult time grasping the concept of backing in and instead made 3-point turns to enter and exit the spaces).

[Rover]

A quick internet search reveals that several communites around the world have had great success with this type of parking (except Syracuse, NY - where people had a difficult time grasping the concept of backing in and instead made 3-point turns to enter and exit the spaces).

In all fairness, it gets mighty cold in Syracuse. The brains just don't work as well in bitter cold.

[Kerry]

In all fairness, it gets mighty cold in Syracuse. The brains just don't work as well in bitter cold.

You know, I was thinking I would love to be a person on the sidewalk watching some yahoo trying to turn around in the street so he could drive in forward, just so I could walk up to him and tell him he is supposed to back in.

[semisimple]

There are a couple of streets here in Austin that were converted to back-in parking recently and people seem to be using them properly here, unlike Syracuse. They can increase parking capacity and evidently make it safer for cyclists. Should be good for Automobile Alley.

[kevinpate]

Oughta be interesting given the propensity of folks to tailgate on city streets

[Spartan]

If they can find a way to cram as many spots as possible along a city block they need to do that. For those parking lovers, imagine the equivalent size of parking lot you could have if you didn't stretch out all those spots and instead arranged them around as inefficiently as possible. For people who love good city planning, imagine the size of the parking lot we could avoid having.

There is already not a parking problem on North Broadway. Maybe abundance of parking is what we really need to bring in retail and more activity? It's worth a shot if we can accomplish it with more efficient street parking spots.

[Chicken In The Rough]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine people backing into parking spaces. Don't get me wrong. I whole-heartedly support the concept as it may improve the situation for bikers and it may make parking more efficient. However, I think it will be a bonanza for body shops! Too many nimrods can't even manage forward parking without scraping neighboring cars. How in the world will they manage backing into a space?

[Spartan]

Well you already have to go in reverse to do a proper parallel parking job.

[OKCRT]

Just one thing about back in parking. They said they were going to install electric outlets for the hybrids so how is that gonna work?

[bombermwc]

Just more ways they are going to screw up Broadway and make it less friendly to get around.

[Kerry]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine people backing into parking spaces.

They already back out of them (and into traffic I might add). I would rather back into an empty parking space than into a busy road, but that is just me.

[BG918]

I think they should leave Broadway as it is with parallel parking, especially if it ends up a streetcar route. I'm not a fan of the angled parking in Norman i.e. downtown/Campus Corner.

[Kerry]

Honestly, I don't see how anyone could be against back-in angled parking. It is better than standard front-in angled parking and parallel parking in every conceivable way. To me is seems to be the biggest no-brainer in the history of no-brainers. I was actually shocked to learn that this is how parking was once laid out in downtown OKC (back when there WERE streetcars).

[foodiefan]

They already back out of them (and into traffic I might add). I would rather back into an empty parking space than into a busy road, but that is just me.

Hear, hear!!

[Larry OKC]

I avoid parallel parking (unless it is an end space) and even front end angled parking (where you have to back out into traffic) if at all possible. Can't see how back in angled parking is any safer in the parking part (leaving the space may be another story). There are some places where back-in parking will get you towed (not sure what the reasoning is)

[Spartan]

Well it won't get you towed on North Broadway, feel free to back-in park all you want, since that will be the intended purpose of these spots. And honestly it will be much easier than parallel parking, which is really difficult for most Okies for some unknown reason, because you won't have to back AND turn into a spot, just back straight into it.

The reason this is much better is that it allows us to squeeze in far more parking spaces on North Broadway. We all know how much we love our parking in OKC, so perhaps this is a solution--by just maximizing street spots. It's a no-brainer because the dimensions of a car are obviously wider on the side than along the front, so you can get at least twice as many cars parked along a street side-by-side as opposed to end-to-end.

The reason back-in is more ideal is because what goes in one way has to go out another way. It's better to have to go in reverse at first when even the most inattentive driver has most likely already scanned the street for moving people or cars than once you're already parked and inattentive people are doing what they do best. Also already mentioned in this thread, with your car front-facing toward the street at an angle the circumference of your opened car door will not only shield you from traffic as opposed to sticking out into traffic but it will also make small children and inattentive people to exit their car into the sidewalk rather than into the street.

[bombermwc]

If this is part of the project to take Broadway from 4 to 2 lanes, then I'm totally against it. Parking or not (which I might add, I've NEVER had a problem finding parking down there....ever). You might have to walk a few more feet once you do park, but you still walk less then somewhere like a mall. And heaven forbid people get off their fat butts and walk somewhere in OKC....wouldn't want them to work off those big macs or anything. Ugh.

[Kerry]

Bombermwc - the goal of back-in angled parking and reducing travel lanes is to make the area more pedestrian friendly. They are trying to do the very thing you say you want done. They are trying to get 'fat butts' out of the driver seat and on the sidewalk. How is keeping current parking styles and existing lanes going to get people walking if it already isn't doing so?

[bombermwc]

I just don't agree with the plan. It's differences of opinion, and I'm not the decision maker, so i'll lose. I don't agree that Broadway needs to be 2 lanes to make it more friendly, and just because what's his face said so, doesn't make it so to me. Hey, others feel differently and that's great. But spending all that money isn't going to make people go down there...it's a total waste to me. If someone wanted to go down there for something right now, they would do it...parking would just be something that they would figure out. But spending millions to tear up a road that was redone not that long ago (another annoyance...redoing a street for the hundreth time...money wasted again), won't make people any less lazy.

I'll restate this though - you walk a hell of a lot more when you go to the mall, walmart, the grocery store, etc....than you do on Broadway TODAY. But people still go to those places. And you know what, people drive from one end of a strip mall to the other because they are so lazy. I just can't see the justification.

[shane453]

But spending millions to tear up a road that was redone not that long ago (another annoyance...redoing a street for the hundreth time...money wasted again), won't make people any less lazy.

To be fair, I think it's just restriping