Streetcar

[Urban Pioneer]

The two cities that are actually physically in the process of doing something are Tuscon, AZ and Washington D.C. My guess is that our system completion is right behind Tuscon and may actually make it before any part of DC is in operation.

Fort Worth and Dallas just recently received FTA monies. Cincinnati is also aggressively pursuing Modern Streetcar.

[okclee]

Is their a Okc Streetcar meeting coming up?

[Urban Pioneer]

Is their a Okc Streetcar meeting coming up?

The first MAPS Citizen Advisory Transit meeting is coming up. I don't know the location as of yet or the final agenda. It will be a working meeting.

[Superhyper]

Apparently several new republican governors are pretending to reject millions in high-speed rail money. I say we generously step in and offer to take it off their hands...
http://www.npr.org/2010/11/10/131223...rail-uncertain

[Kerry]

Okay, so you take high-speed rail to Tulsa and you get there 30 minutes faster than taking your own car. How are you going to get around once you are there? Keep in mind the HSR ticket is also $50 per person.

[Superhyper]

Not to downplay our eastern neighbor (I'm from Tulsa), but i'd really be more interested in HSR to Dallas. What you mention is spot on, Tulsa has no real public-transit to speak of. Although DART certainly has its detractors, it's got more to offer than Tulsa Transit.

[soonerguru]

Apparently several new republican governors are pretending to reject millions in high-speed rail money. I say we generously step in and offer to take it off their hands...
http://www.npr.org/2010/11/10/131223...rail-uncertain

Mary Fallin will be far worse than these govs. Watch.

[Kerry]

Not to downplay our eastern neighbor (I'm from Tulsa), but i'd really be more interested in HSR to Dallas. What you mention is spot on, Tulsa has no real public-transit to speak of. Although DART certainly has its detractors, it's got more to offer than Tulsa Transit.

Dallas is the same way. The problem with nearly every American city is that 'things to do' are not next to each other. The will be an urban hotspot, but the next hotspot is 5 miles away and in between is a bunch of homes. American city needs to be rebuilt at the core. We don't even have cities anymore, we just have a bunch of people that live close to each other. It wasn't always this way (thank you GM).

[ou48A]

I would love to see a commuter rail system in central Oklahoma. Living in Norman and being an OU football fan I’m interested in learning how significantly could a commuter rail system reduce football traffic and parking congestion.

How much capacity per hour would be needed to be to make real difference and is this feasible?
What type of construction is needed for a stop near the OU duck pond?
Should they build a short spur line to the west toward the stadium to shorten the walk?

From what I have been told years ago thousands of OU fans took several special trains to the games in Norman.
I would guess that this location would be well used all year long.

[Urban Pioneer]

This is a very interesting thread about where Fort Worth's modern streetcar project is. It is their version of OKCTalk it seems.

http://fortworthology.com/2010/10/05...ifies-funding/

[soonerguru]

What a neat city Fort Worth is, and the street car is perfect for it.

Urban Pioneer, can you address whether or not the proposed Fort Worth system will be more expansive than OKC's?

[OKC@heart]

Man they have a slammin proposal! I hope likewise we can develop a similarly comprehensive paln that will work and stand on its own, and then add and complement the larger Mass transit plan that will dovetail off of the studies being done.

[okclee]

What are the chances that Ft. Worth has theirs up and running before Okc has theirs?

Also, why can't Okc do some sort of additional funding via TIF? Let the areas that will benefit from it help pay for it and Okc could have more miles of track.

I also like the info on the Ft. Worth website showing suburban living vs urban living and the generation Y wanting the urban walkable factor in a city.

[OKC@heart]

I am guessing that Fort Worth will beat us due to a couple of key things.

They have thier route nailed down, and have a proposal that is pretty dang solid from both ridership information as well as a net zero General fund cost to implement the plan. With return projections on the initial investment at 4 to 1 I don't see how they couldn't be hitting the ground running as fast as they can get the cars delivered, so long as they have thier right of way issues squared away. From the looks of it the plan is fairly straitforward so again I see them slinging track much sooner than us. I would love to be surprised but to do so would involve us having the completed Hub Study, Convention location identified, and we are operating on a fixed budget that will buy less and less as time move forward. We need to have definative routes in place and a plan for funding as well as a comprehensive plan that is not rough shod just to get it done quickly.

Okc's Plan has to be done right or its dead. We need to thread the fine line of getting product to market as soon as possible so we remain relevant and capitalize on the momentum that is causing the generation Y's to take notice, as well as have the much needed and relevant data upon which to make the most of our limited budget so we are not having to patch things together later to make the real plan make sense.

[Tier2City]

OKC's system will be the single largest amount of modern streetcar network construction done at any one time so far. Furthermore, it's a fully 100% local match, i.e., the all funding is local and is definitely in place. I understand things are going to move quickly in the next few months with regard to route selection - the Alternatives Analysis process will be completed shortly plus preliminary Hub locations will have been identified and the convention center consultant study will be moving forward. But we're not really in a competition with Fort Worth. If a nearby peer city is working on a similar system that's fantastic for public and political awareness. The real competition right now is with Project 180 and maximizing the use of taxpayer funds, specifically not relocating utilities twice. Even if tracks may not be laid for a while, the sooner key streets can be identified, the more money can be saved.

[ljbab728]

I would love to see a commuter rail system in central Oklahoma. Living in Norman and being an OU football fan I’m interested in learning how significantly could a commuter rail system reduce football traffic and parking congestion.

How much capacity per hour would be needed to be to make real difference and is this feasible?
What type of construction is needed for a stop near the OU duck pond?
Should they build a short spur line to the west toward the stadium to shorten the walk?

From what I have been told years ago thousands of OU fans took several special trains to the games in Norman.
I would guess that this location would be well used all year long.

ou, I assume that was a joke about the system you're hoping for possibly needing a spur from the Duck Pond to the stadium. The Duck Pond is closer to the stadium than Campus Corner is.

[Urban Pioneer]

Urban Pioneer, can you address whether or not the proposed Fort Worth system will be more expansive than OKC's?

It will be the largest, perhaps the most complex, and the most technologically advanced "starter" streetcar system built in modern American history.

The only city building anything on our scale at one time is Tuscon, AZ. But will be looking even beyond their goals with our $130 million local match.

[soonerguru]

Let me rephrase: will OKC's street car system be the largest, or Fort Worth's?

[Urban Pioneer]

Ours wiill be LARGER. Read my first sentence again. We have more money. Lines on a map do not constitute what will actually be built.

[Kerry]

The Portland system, which I think is the largest in the US, is only 4 miles long.

[BG918]

Okc's Plan has to be done right or its dead. We need to thread the fine line of getting product to market as soon as possible so we remain relevant and capitalize on the momentum that is causing the generation Y's to take notice, as well as have the much needed and relevant data upon which to make the most of our limited budget so we are not having to patch things together later to make the real plan make sense.

Agree, it must be done right the first time. Austin built their commuter rail first and it has been a colossal failure. That now puts their light rail/streetcar plans in jeopardy.

[Kerry]

Agree, it must be done right the first time. Austin built their commuter rail first and it has been a colossal failure. That now puts their light rail/streetcar plans in jeopardy.

This is exactly why the rail component of MAPS I would have been a disaster. We dodged a bullet on that one.

[Urban Pioneer]

The Portland system, which I think is the largest in the US, is only 4 miles long.

Yes, true, but a great deal of it is "double-tracked." So it is really more like 8 miles of actual linear track feet. And Portland is aggressively adding more on as we speak. They will continue to be the leader in overall system size for the foreseeable future.

However, while I was up there, it was clear had they known more, the system design would be more advanced and "smoother." There are "kinks" they are trying to work out. We have the luxury of starting from scratch with the possibilities of new technologies. In terms of a "starter system," we will be far ahead for the immediate future.

[ou48A]

ou, I assume that was a joke about the system you're hoping for possibly needing a spur from the Duck Pond to the stadium. The Duck Pond is closer to the stadium than Campus Corner is.

No isn’t a joke.
Yes the OU duck pond is closer to the stadium but the main line is about the same distance as it is to campus corner.

A short Y shaped spur line would provide more safe staging space for a large number of passengers.
It would allow for more safe options if expansion is ever needed.... such as a second platform.
On a daily basis the more convenient any system is (shorter walk) the higher the ridership would likely be.
A spur line would also provide a place for commuter trains to temporarily get out of the way of other trains.

If you’re familiar with the OU campus I’m thinking a station should be located just north of the track & field complex in an area that’s currently a parking lot. But even if the station is at the main line this general area is a far better location for severing the needs of a majority of Norman’s Amtrak passengers.

[Kerry]

Yes, true, but a great deal of it is "double-tracked." So it is really more like 8 miles of actual linear track feet.

I was just going by their web site that said a 4 mile loop. Thanks for the clarrification