OKC Media needs some self reflection - WE DESERVE BETTER

[dankrutka]

OK, I've got one more thing to say: The Columbia Journalism Review article declaring The Oklahoman the worst in America was clearly horse-dung. I worked at The Edmond Sun. I know for A FACT there are worse newspapers.

I'll trust you on this, Steve, but could you elaborate? Was it poorly researched? Why is the ranking "horse-dung?" Obviously, there is some subjectivity to these types of rankings, but what is it that makes it invalid? Thanks ahead of time.

[ljbab728]

While there are exceptions (e.g. Steve, Jake Trotter...), the Oklahoman really has some objectivity/fairness issues when it comes to covering politics.

Kilgore, you obviously don't remember the Oklahoman back when EK was alive and running the paper. You would think it was a bastion of free thinking now if you had read it then.

[Larry OKC]

Couldn't have said it better, Big D misey

Particularly considering OKC has the league's next MVP and everybody world wide knows Kevin Durant. I have been in China for the past few years - and when I speak to people about the NBA or my hometown(s) (both Seattle and originally OKC) - the first word is 'oh, Kevin Durant.....'

LOL

Guess you missed the Russian Sam thread where Sam asked who is Kevin Durant?

[Larry OKC]

OK, I've got one more thing to say: The Columbia Journalism Review article declaring The Oklahoman the worst in America was clearly horse-dung. I worked at The Edmond Sun. I know for A FACT there are worse newspapers.

Always find it amusing when someone brings that up as it was several years ago. Read it and they mentioned the one bright spot was Ed Kelly (before he got promoted). IMO since he got promoted the Oklahoman has steadily gone downhill.

[TaoMaas]

I'm one who used to read The Oklahoman religiously every day. These days...I just don't have time! During the week, my job requires that I'm on the computer so much that, regardless of what happens during the day, I read about it long before I get home. So even though I get a daily paper thrown (they're pretty much giving it to me for free in hopes that I'll sample it), most days I don't go through it. It's already been tried time and time again to charge for online news services. People just WILL NOT pay...end of story. These days, I really only have time to read the Saturday and Sunday papers. News media, in general, has changed, btw. It used to be that the 10pm newscast was the biggie for local stations. And, to a certain extent, it still is. But there is a growing number of people for whom the morning newscast (formerly just a 'throw-away' cast) is becoming their first news source of the day. It's taken the place of our 'morning paper with our coffee'. Getting back to The Oklahoman...even though I think they tried this several years ago, I think the time has come for them to try bundling their hard-copy subscriptions with their online product. Come up with a basic package that combines a hard copy paper on the weekends with a password that will let you access in-depth stories online during the week.

[flintysooner]

I really like the iPad version of The Oklahoman although I haven't subscribed. Sometimes I have a bit of problem making it swipe right but maybe that's me. I still read the articles on my Kindle though as I prefer it for reading text.

[jmarkross]

Offering the Devon Tower webcam as a *free* thing would help get them a bit of good will. Their "reasons" for it being difficult to do is as silly as can be. It simply does not pass the smell test--regardless of the mysterious "reasons" which are so deep in National Security mere citizens such as us could not comprehend the magnitude of the dangers...a public relations faux pas of titanic dimension... KSBI seems to do it for free...

[Steve]

I'll trust you on this, Steve, but could you elaborate? Was it poorly researched? Why is the ranking "horse-dung?" Obviously, there is some subjectivity to these types of rankings, but what is it that makes it invalid? Thanks ahead of time.

OK, first the sources: one former reporter quoted, I know for a fact, was as unethical as one can get. The guy coining the headline was himself a political operative who worked for David Walters - a governor who was indicted based on The Oklahoman's reporting (not that either of these details were mentioned in the story). I'm not going to get into all the finer details of the article - do an expose on any newspaper and there will be some valid complaints (though I will acknowledge the design of the paper at the time was horrible and outdated). But here's the thing: there were and are far worse newspapers. The CJR article was a hit piece, and not a fair balanced report. It's like trying to expect Keith Olbermann to do a fair news report on the Republican Party or Glenn Beck to do a fair report on the Democrats.
It was horse dung, and there no objectivity or real research that went into the story.
Go beyond the rhetoric and give this whole debate some sane, rational thought. Find out for yourselves what value is still provided by The Oklahoman: compile a list of local news stories delivered by The Oklahoman on any given day, and do the same for each 10 p.m. local newscast.
I'll bet the newspaper wins it by a mile. I'm just not sure as an industry we're all that good at saying so.

[Steve]

Webcam access is something I've explained jmark - there are other parties involved in this operation and this was the agreement we have to work with. I do appreciate that on the Internet we expect everything to be free.

[jmarkross]

Webcam access is something I've explained jmark - there are other parties involved in this operation and this was the agreement we have to work with. I do appreciate that on the Internet we expect everything to be free.

Well...goddammit...if I was working down there I would get one at RADIO SHACK and hang the SOB up and let her rip! How hard is it???

It ain't exactly Operation Overlord!

[Steve]

Jmark, trust me. I wanted what you want. It's a lot harder than you think. And yeah, there's a difference between live video streaming and the web cam here on OKC Talk (which I think is great). But if you want to buy up some tech stuff at Radio Shack and you can get live streaming set up, we'd be glad to show it at NewsOK.

[jmarkross]

Jmark, trust me. I wanted what you want. It's a lot harder than you think. And yeah, there's a difference between live video streaming and the web cam here on OKC Talk (which I think is great). But if you want to buy up some tech stuff at Radio Shack and you can get live streaming set up, we'd be glad to show it at NewsOK.

Perhaps now is the time to go to the head office with a plan to make this happen--and throw it in management's face. You are well enough liked around town and within OPUBCO--I would suspect--to make it happen. Faint heart never won fair lady. And--you have all of us behind you. It is of no use whatsoever in the current configuration--a throwback to some long-gone ideology...make it happen Mr. Lackmeyer.

[metro]

Radio Shack is still around? I thought it went the way of the newspaper biz.

[Rover]

Perhaps now is the time to go to the head office with a plan to make this happen--and throw it in management's face. You are well enough liked around town and within OPUBCO--I would suspect--to make it happen. Faint heart never won fair lady. And--you have all of us behind you. It is of no use whatsoever in the current configuration--a throwback to some long-gone ideology...make it happen Mr. Lackmeyer.

I think Steve is saying YOU go set it up if it is as easy as you suggest and then OPUBCO will broadcast YOUR live stream.

[jmarkross]

Radio Shack is still around? I thought it went the way of the newspaper biz.

Actually...I was using it metaphorically...they do still sell those leather billfold kits you can make--right?

[Steve]

"Faint heart never won fair lady."
Good gadzooks man, you don't know how many months and how much work, etc., it took just to do what we did with the live streaming. The feedback I'm getting here essentially is the opposite of what's being communicated - that I shouldn't have bothered.

[jmarkross]

"Faint heart never won fair lady."
Good gadzooks man, you don't know how many months and how much work, etc., it took just to do what we did with the live streaming. The feedback I'm getting here essentially is the opposite of what's being communicated - that I shouldn't have bothered.

So why is it still...a...secret society that rules it--a sort of Soy-ink Skull and Bones?

[soonerguru]

Kilgore, you obviously don't remember the Oklahoman back when EK was alive and running the paper. You would think it was a bastion of free thinking now if you had read it then.

I think you mean E.L. The founder, E.K., hasn't run the paper since the early 1970s.

[dismayed]

I have a compliment for The Oklahoman regarding an issue I have been critical of in the past. It seems to me that over the last several years there has been a marked-improvement in the grammar throughout the newspaper's pages. On the few occasions where something about an article truly bothered me I found that the story in question had actually originated with either the Tulsa World or the AP, and not The Oklahoman's staff.

I don't know if that is something that the paper has made a concerted effort to fix, but regardless I just wanted to say that it has been noticed and is appreciated.

[bornhere]

This is a pretty hilarious thread. We start out complaining about the Oklahoman's overall quality, and when we get to specifics, it's... basketball coverage and a freakin' WEBCAM?!

You're getting exactly the newspaper you deserve.

[HOT ROD]

bornhere, Im sure there may be more specifics that people will post later, give it time.

dismayed, very good observation - I too used to have issues with the grammar and you're right it has gotten much much better. That is a positive takeaway, let's keep 'em coming. We're here to help.

[ljbab728]

I think you mean E.L. The founder, E.K., hasn't run the paper since the early 1970s.

No, I meant E.K. I remember very well what the paper was when he was there. E.K. wasn't the founder but built the paper into his empire. He purchased the paper in 1902.

[ljbab728]

I'm one who used to read The Oklahoman religiously every day. These days...I just don't have time! During the week, my job requires that I'm on the computer so much that, regardless of what happens during the day, I read about it long before I get home. So even though I get a daily paper thrown (they're pretty much giving it to me for free in hopes that I'll sample it), most days I don't go through it. It's already been tried time and time again to charge for online news services. People just WILL NOT pay...end of story. These days, I really only have time to read the Saturday and Sunday papers. News media, in general, has changed, btw. It used to be that the 10pm newscast was the biggie for local stations. And, to a certain extent, it still is. But there is a growing number of people for whom the morning newscast (formerly just a 'throw-away' cast) is becoming their first news source of the day. It's taken the place of our 'morning paper with our coffee'. Getting back to The Oklahoman...even though I think they tried this several years ago, I think the time has come for them to try bundling their hard-copy subscriptions with their online product. Come up with a basic package that combines a hard copy paper on the weekends with a password that will let you access in-depth stories online during the week.

Tao, I too have a very busy day but I get up early specifically so I'll have time to relax reading the morning paper. It just depends on what your priorities are. You can make time for whatever interests you. As for the morning news, I usually have it on but basically only for any weather updates. It's alway just a rehash of news that I've already heard from the day before. Little new news happens overnight to be on the morning news shows.

[TaoMaas]

Tao, I too have a very busy day but I get up early specifically so I'll have time to relax reading the morning paper. It just depends on what your priorities are. You can make time for whatever interests you. As for the morning news, I usually have it on but basically only for any weather updates. It's alway just a rehash of news that I've already heard from the day before. Little new news happens overnight to be on the morning news shows.

Of course, you're right. We make time for that which is important to us. But we wouldn't even be having this conversation if more people were like you and fewer were like me. But the fact is, these days, most people follow a routine like the one I laid out. Our habits have changed over the years and not always for the better.

[metro]

Thanks. That IS an answer. As for a letter to your editors, you may recall that I've tried that approach before ... actually a friend suggested it then, too. The letter is fully set forth at http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2009/11...oklahoman.html, originally posted there on November 10, 2009 but the post was updated December 5, 2009. It was sent to to David Thompson, president of the OPUBCO Communications Group and publisher of the Oklahoman, Christy Gaylord Everest, chair and chief executive for the Oklahoma Publishing Company, and David Kelley, editor of the Oklahoman.

I won't restate that letter here ... it is at the above link ... it asked 6 questions.

Responses were invited, none were given. Why should they respond? The Oklahoman has the only game in town and they know it.

Any other suggestions?

Doug said it right, I can't tell you how many emails or letters I've shot to the Daily Disappointment, only to find to no surprise it continually falls on deaf ears. It's pointless to keep sending them stuff. What do we need to organize a massive protest at the doorsteps of the Oklahoman Tower (aka Oz)? Yeah right, like they'd let us do that, security is unnecessarily tight there. The man pulling the strings behind the curtains at Oz won't listen anyways. I'm with Doug or whomever said, have a better option?

Jmark, trust me. I wanted what you want. It's a lot harder than you think. And yeah, there's a difference between live video streaming and the web cam here on OKC Talk (which I think is great). But if you want to buy up some tech stuff at Radio Shack and you can get live streaming set up, we'd be glad to show it at NewsOK.

Steve, we hear you use this answer, but then never hear an explanation as to the specifics of "it's more complicated than you think." Sure, I can respect the fact your bosses muzzle you and you're just doing your job. I even appreciate the large efforts you went through to get the webcam, I do. But if you can't speak, why can't the brass at Oz give an explanation? Or why even defend your employer if you can't give details? In the information age, it just doesn't smell right when every other company in America is offering a free streaming webcam for their construction projects, heck, even locally on small time stuff like Chesapeake Garage, Whole Foods, etc.