OKC Media needs some self reflection - WE DESERVE BETTER

[lcd1712]

Ordinarily and generally, I would agree with that, Rover. As I said in my 1st comment in this thread, Steve is one of the Oklahoman's bright spots, in my opinion.

However, it was Steve's choice to offer his defense about his employer on what has been said thus far in this thread, some parts going beyond ares in which is not engaged as a reporter, and, with that lengthy reply, as a judge during a trial might say, "Well, you opened that door, counselor. Objection overruled."

I do understand that Steve may not want to say anything negative about his employer, and that's understandable. Since he chose to respond in the thread as he did, it's also fair, I think, to note that if he is unwilling to comment negatively that one ought not take what he DOES have to say as being particularly comprehensive or complete, if that makes sense.

True, but since this is not a trial, and Steve could potentially lose his job a la NPR, let's cut him some slack.

I agree with Steve 100% over the CNN, FOX, MSNBC row. I am a conservative that watches CNN over Fox, because I don't want a "News" organization to tell me what my opinion is. I just want to hear what the news are.

Back on topic, I think putting some emotional writing on topics such as sports, social events, etc without sounding biased is good and harmless. However, I do not share the same thought on politics, as they do influence people and have bigger consequences.

I think what the consultants failed to observe is that people like short stories on general, broad news, so we stay "in the know". But on topics where we are passionated about, we like to read more and more, things like sports...

[Doug Loudenback]

Steve is a good friend and I do cut him slack. I'll let it go at that.

[Steve]

Doug I'm not able to answer your four questions. They would be better posed to editors of the newspaper.
- Steve

[FritterGirl]

HotRod,

While I certainly appreciate your efforts to want to bring serious discussion to the matter, asking Steve to serve as proponent of this thread by bringing it up to his bosses is really asking him to step beyond what would be considered appropriate for his role - either here or at the paper.

For those who have significant complaints with the paper, I suggest you heed Steve's earlier advice which is to contact the paper's leadership yourself. I recognize sometimes engaging in discussion such as this one is a more enjoyable way of communicating the matter, but unless there is someone at the Oklahoman who monitors threads exactly such as this, I suggest a better approach to incite actual change would be to engage directly with the individuals responsible for The Oklahoman's content and format.

I'm not disagreeing with what you have to say at all. But using this as your sole means of communication may not be the most effective way of having the right people hear you.

[Steve]

Hot Rod, different reporters take different approaches to various stories. That's why I said you need to take up complaints about the Skydance Bridge with Bryan Dean. If you felt like it should have been taken up in advance, you need to let him know that, and if you're disappointed in how he covered it, talk that out with him as well.
For the most part, I'm not so much arguing with any of you on these matters as I am trying to give insight, as I can, as to how some things are done. I want you, as readers, to know that if you want more in-depth coverage, you need to speak out, you need to let editors know.
I do know that at the Dallas Morning News, they've actually started taking a path divergent from the rest of the industry, providing more content, going more in-depth with news, and doing more investigations. And the Dallas Morning News was rewarded this past quarter by being one of very few papers to post circulation gains. They also reported a nice profit as well.
I do think the newspaper industry as a whole for the past decade has followed BAD advice from consultants who have urged them that the key to survival in the future is by hooking younger readers with shorter and shallower content. I don't agree with this at all, I've been vocal in saying so, and I remain fiercely loyal to the idea that there will continue to be a role for local news to serve the community and in turn, be rewarded through circulation and advertising.
I also think that newspapers do a poor job of reminding their audiences of the role they have played in serving their communities.
Doug is an attorney by trade, and while he's a very good friend, there are times when we disagree quite a bit. I respect him, and I hope he respects me. He wants an answer to every question. But there are times when I'm not the right person to answer a question.
It's a fine line for me. I will admit there have been times when I've not always made the right call in how I respond or communicate on this site. I'm doing my best,and I do respect how this online community tries to be better connected to what's going on in their hometown.

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug I'm not able to answer your four questions. They would be better posed to editors of the newspaper.
- Steve

Thanks. That IS an answer. As for a letter to your editors, you may recall that I've tried that approach before ... actually a friend suggested it then, too. The letter is fully set forth at http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2009/11...oklahoman.html, originally posted there on November 10, 2009 but the post was updated December 5, 2009. It was sent to to David Thompson, president of the OPUBCO Communications Group and publisher of the Oklahoman, Christy Gaylord Everest, chair and chief executive for the Oklahoma Publishing Company, and David Kelley, editor of the Oklahoman.

I won't restate that letter here ... it is at the above link ... it asked 6 questions.

Responses were invited, none were given. Why should they respond? The Oklahoman has the only game in town and they know it.

Any other suggestions?

[Doug Loudenback]

Hot Rod * * *
* * * Doug is an attorney by trade, and while he's a very good friend, there are times when we disagree quite a bit. I respect him, and I hope he respects me. He wants an answer to every question. But there are times when I'm not the right person to answer a question.

You know that I respect you a lot. You said that, "He wants an answer to every question." Of course I do. But I'd be pleased to get at least one question answered from taking the approach you mentioned (communicating with editors, etc.) ... see the above.

[Steve]

Doug, I'm just a cog in the wheel. At the end of the day, I can only answer for what I can answer.

[Doug Loudenback]

I understand. Did you read what I said ... I didn't say (last 2 messages) answers FROM YOU ... I said answers from your bosses.

[Steve]

I know. We're good. You're my favorite fellow history geek and you always will be.

[Laramie]

When I was twelve years old, my first job was distribution of the Daily Oklahoman/Oklahoma City Times.

We often teased one another about "flunkying for Gaylord." Our paper station managers were not the most honorable, trustworthy or desirable leaders--we had fringe benefits: Redcross, Bluecross (cold days), Greencross (collections) and on pay day we got Double-crossed!

The Oklahoman had extended coverage for local semi-pro teams (89ers, Blazers, Calvary, Slickers, Dolls, Plainsmen...) and our major colleges.

The Oklahoma Journal (W. P. 'Bill' Atkinson) was their competition.

I've learned over the years that E.K. & E.L. Gaylord had a dominance as Oklahoma's most influencial newspaper which was unique among news print media throughout the United States.

It is what it is; although the Oklahoman is a good listener, it is immune to change.

[HOT ROD]

and that last sentence is what is sad and why I said we deserve better.

Steve, I didn't start this thread to get you into any trouble, I started only to voice my opinion and give the people of OKC who may not know an opportunity to see how it is done in other markets. I only mentioned you because you are our greatest asset from the paper and I assumed the leadership wanted feedback from the online community. If you will be so kind, please let me know whom to contact. I don't mind to lend some of my business advice and prospective to OKC businesses, as I care about OKC and want it to succeed and get better; even if it is volunteer. haha

Casey YOU might think OKC doesn't deserve the right to good press, but I beg to differ. And contrary to your way of thinking on this, you should be aware that we are paying for even the online edition of NewsOK - because it is based on # of page hits that they charge their advertisers; and YES, we DO see the ads. They charge a price for their paper - print and online, and we pay it - and the journalistic content is not there and what does get published, comes far too LATE in many cases or is heavily slanted/spinned to one direction.

[soonerguru]

Hey guys I can understand the frustration echoed here but I do agree with Steve when comparing the Oklahoman with the Oregonian. It was not fair to compare the two in light of the fact that it was a home game for Portland. Having said that you must realize the Oklahoman has deadlines to meet before going to print and the game did not end until past midnight central time. I will probably get raked over the coals for supporting the Oklahoman but geez cut 'em some slack.
The Oklahoman and NewsOK consistently win numerous regional and statewide awards year in and year out and are both thought of highly by their peers.
Awards won just this year alone. http://newsok.com/awards

Not to quibble, but the Oklahoman rarely if ever takes sweepstakes at SPJ. Tulsa World does every year. Given the Oklahoman's resources, this is embarrassing, in my opinion.

[RadioOKC]

I think Steve said it all when he talked about a department that had 12 going to 7. You can't have the same expectations on quality and detail when you start cutting the people that produce the work. All media is cutting back. The few that have the luxury of being in print, radio or TV do so with more and more added to their plate every day and they are normally the first to take it on the chin when
salary cuts are on the table, not the consultants or the people who hire them.

Chris
http://www.radiookc.com

[HOT ROD]

radio, I disagree.

In business we have had to cut staff too. Most of my peers dont have administrative assistants anymore and in finance all of our business plans and statements must still have the content and signatures needed to satisfy our customers (the government and the stakeholders). It is my job to ensure the product is consistent and is on time despite a lean staff. If not, there is a competitor waiting for our overall products and/or my job. The Oklahoman has NO competition, there is no alternate voice in OKC. There's no excuse, particularly when Steve posts quite well written and timely articles himself.

Also, these guys are journalists or are in journalism. I knew people in university who were in those studies, and all they did was write and try to make sense of their content. Im sure Steve will agree, most if not all journalists actually write too much and it is the editors who trim things down or change the position prior to publishing. If you look at the Portland stories I published, all the did was state the facts, history, and did some investigation/interviews and published that particularly to back up any claims the paper tried to make. That lets the public be informed with a nice thick paper or article and lends some credibility to any editorials the paper made since they cited somebody in the know or otherwise credible when making any assertions, assumptions, or claims.

It shouldn't be too difficult for a major metro paper like the Oklahoman to match the content and investigative journalism at least on the few topics (esp if peer and even lower markets can do it) that people care about most in OKC: Sports (especially OU, OSU, OCU, and OKC's pro teams), City Government - particularly MAPS, Project 180, and urban renewal/downtown, Business/Economy, Events/Activities, and OKC related press. I notice they only rise and deliver when it comes to the colleges, particularly OU (OCU gets NO LOVE, no coverage).

This is what I will recommend once I receive contact information of the leadership of newsok.

[dismayed]

Since the topic is really local media in general, I thought I would post something about our local TV news. I really like KOCO's news cast because they tend to just report the news in a 'hard news' type of format. I honestly don't watch the local news that often, but when I do I find myself tuning into channel 5 because it seems to be the only remaining place where I don't have to set through an anchors anecdotes or scowls in between stories, or opinion pieces that close out the newscast. That is really what I prefer, solid information free of opinion, and I wish there was more of that in the local news.

One thing I wish there was more of, because I don't know that any of the stations are really doing it, is in-depth local reporting. For example, it is amazing to me that we live in a world where I can turn on the TV at any given hour and see what my federal Congress folks are doing, live on TV, but for almost the entire duration of our state Congress' session I typically can barely recall even one video shot from the floor. I don't think I have ever heard a report of or from the state Supreme Court, except for the piece about the justice who died recently.

There is so much goofy stuff that goes on in this state that everyone just sort of gives a pass to. No one really questions why some things are the way they are, and definitely no media entity is doing much in the way of follow-up reporting. For that you have to turn to the newspapers, but even they don't do enough of that sort of reporting.

Here's a great example. ABLE stated this week that they have decided to ban the alcohol-energy drink 4LOCO from Oklahoma. Now I honestly don't care about this product or its ban. But what I do care about is why does ABLE think it has the right to do this? Does it have the right to do this? How is it that Oklahoma's health authority tried to ban smoking in public places a few years ago and was met with giant public rebuke and was told that something of that nature needed to be voted on by either Congress or the people, but this instance goes unnoticed? My point is that most often times our news organizations are really only "triggered" to go out and talk to someone about something when a large group of people freak out and get mad about whatever the issue is. It shouldn't be that way. There should be people out there constantly looking for the story, not waiting for a press release or a disgruntled citizen to bring the news to them. When I think of great news organizations around the country that is what I think of.

[Rover]

Unfortunately, real journalism is a dying discipline, either nationally or locally. Opinion based networks like Fox, blogs and pseudo journalistic web sites continue to degrade this important function. Free press is mandated, but responsible press is not. If we as the public want actual news instead of fluff, opinion, and cats caught in trees reports, then we have to demand it with our money. When advertising in the Oklahoman ceases to work, or when the readership severely diminishes then we might see change. Though you guys don't think the Oklahoma has competition, they do. Every web site, blog, tv news show, etc. is competition. Even this site is competition. Cancel subscriptions and quit favoring advertisers you see in the paper and if there are enough like you there will be changes. Problem is, there are 30 on this site and 100,000 buying the paper. Who do you think they really care about their opinions?

[jmarkross]

Since the topic is really local media in general, I thought I would post something about our local TV news. I really like KOCO's news cast because they tend to just report the news in a 'hard news' type of format. I honestly don't watch the local news that often, but when I do I find myself tuning into channel 5 because it seems to be the only remaining place where I don't have to set through an anchors anecdotes or scowls in between stories, or opinion pieces that close out the newscast. That is really what I prefer, solid information free of opinion, and I wish there was more of that in the local news.

I watch KOCO-5 as well...I am driven to distraction at the head-bobbing and drivel from any of the bucket-headed Ogles...whose father was a great sportscaster--but they are just pretenders to the throne...Anita Blanton just gives the news--a real pro in my books. I don't want hers or anyone else's opinion on it--that is MY job when watching the news...what next--canned laughter?

[jmarkross]

[I]Since

[HOT ROD]

well said dismayed and Jmark. This is what I was intending with this thread - a place to vent all OKC media but praise those we think are doing it right.

There maybe only be 30 on OKC Talk (but the membership is well over that) - but the people on OKCTalk are the most vocal and/or most likely to actually do/say something. I totally agree with the lack of local coverage, particularly the government in OKC/OK State. OKC is the capital city yet people there HARDLY know what is going on govt wise; you would think it would have more dc like 'transparent' media coverage - maybe that is why Tulsan's really hate OKC/Capital because they see things happening in a vacuum. ??

[Hondo1]

My personal pet peeve is the poor grammar used by some of our local reporters, particularly reporting from the field. I cringe when the channel 4 helicopter pilot covers tornadoes because he frequently uses incorrect grammar and frequently national media airs the coverage. Embarrassing. While his piloting skills may be good, his grammar is very poor.

[Steve]

Guys, I want the newspaper to be better too. I'm fiercely loyal to the idea that The Oklahoman is, and should continue to be, a leading journalistic voice in this community. NO OTHER local news source delivers as much news as The Oklahoman. Can we do better? You bet. Are some of your complaints valid? Yes.
And when the next consultant comes in (Oh how I wish they would go away), I'll see if I can't invite some of you to share your concerns. And I hope my contribution to this discussion hasn't come off as sounding defensive. I don't mind the criticism. Heck, I just wish you were guys were louder when it comes to demanding more depth and content. Just understand there are areas where I can provide some understanding and explanation, and there are other areas where it's more appropriate for others to speak. And yes, it's when someone like myself begins to speak on matters where it should be others talking that can lead to bad consequences.
One last thought: I can pretty much guarantee there are people in Oregon who hate The Oregonian. I can guarantee there are people who hate the Dallas Morning News, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and so on. Typically the papers that tend to have the best reputations are those that are no longer with us - The Tulsa Tribune (my personal favorite - God they were great!), The Rocky Mountain News, The Dallas Herald, and yes, the Oklahoma Journal.
As someone who has been researching the history of Bill Atkinson and the Oklahoma Journal, let me just add this - they weren't perfect either.

[jmarkross]

My personal pet peeve is the poor grammar used by some of our local reporters, particularly reporting from the field. I cringe when the channel 4 helicopter pilot covers tornadoes because he frequently uses incorrect grammar and frequently national media airs the coverage. Embarrassing. While his piloting skills may be good, his grammar is very poor.

I think that problem runs acrosst their whole on-camera staff...I know--cause I seen it!

[Steve]

Them thar be some insulting kind of language you be using again' my freends in da profesheon, you hear?

[jmarkross]

Them thar be some insulting kind of language you be using again' my freends in da profesheon, you hear?

Well dog my cats--that writer-feller is gettin' mighty uppity!