Race and Ethnicity map in OKC

[PennyQuilts]

So if I'm to believe race is an issue when it comes to crime then can I infer that crime is genetic? Would it be possible to isolate the crime gene?

Seriously, why does the color of ones skin make one more likely to be a criminal? I guess I just don't 'get it'.

I think the connection is cultural rather than genetic. When you have "black" neighborhoods with a ghetto mentality, the chances of young people engaging in criminal activity skyrockets. There is not to say that whites or hispanics or space aliens aren't also affected the same way if raised in that environment but you can't escape the numbers, sadly. In certain parts of the country, if you are black, odds are much higher that you are into that violent, ghetto mentality. It is an ugly fact and ignoring it for fear of being called a racist is merely resulting in more black grandmas hiding out in their homes, held hostage to violent gangbangers who rule their streets. Black on black crime is horrific. And widespread. The chances of a black man dying from murder is off the charts as compared to other races and the vast majority of the murderers are also black.

You just don't see that same fact pattern so acutely with other races - probably because so many blacks live in urban areas and also because of the dysfunctional culture in which many are raised. Due to the perception that all blacks are that way, many other people - and it is certainly not just whites (some studies have shown they have less bigotry towards blacks than hispanics or asians), don't want anything to do with them. It is a tragedy for the non-ghetto blacks to be painted with the same brush but at the same time, completely understandable and sane when it comes to dealing with people who actually have that ghetto mentality. Like I wrote, previously, the non ghetto blacks contribute to the perception by not being the first to call BS on that group. I personally believe their status in the community at large would rise astronomically if they were candid about the problem. You can say what you want about a slave mentality, talk about Jim Crow, etc., but blaming bad stereotypes and bigoted attitudes on some vestiges of slavery and Jim Crow misses the forest for the trees. For most of us, the headlines of scary black gangbangers who seem to have no respect for human life or call to duty when it comes to work and family are what shape public perception - not the fact that these folks ancestors used to be slaves. And the hard working black people are the ones victimized by this.

It is asking a lot for the black community to demand that whites be able to tell the difference when they themselves won't stand up and point it out.

[earlywinegareth]

Geneticists have proven there really is only one race - homo sapiens. We are all 99.6% alike genetically. If we were not of the same race, we could not interbreed, for lack of a better term. Think of it this way, we are all members of one big dysfunctional family.

We also all originated from Africa. Therefore, we all should proudly claim our heritage as African American and put this tired race issue to bed once and for all.

[Stew]

I think the connection is cultural rather than genetic. When you have "black" neighborhoods with a ghetto mentality, the chances of young people engaging in criminal activity skyrockets. There is not to say that whites or hispanics or space aliens aren't also affected the same way if raised in that environment but you can't escape the numbers, sadly. In certain parts of the country, if you are black, odds are much higher that you are into that violent, ghetto mentality. It is an ugly fact and ignoring it for fear of being called a racist is merely resulting in more black grandmas hiding out in their homes, held hostage to violent gangbangers who rule their streets. Black on black crime is horrific. And widespread. The chances of a black man dying from murder is off the charts as compared to other races and the vast majority of the murderers are also black.

You just don't see that same fact pattern so acutely with other races - probably because so many blacks live in urban areas and also because of the dysfunctional culture in which many are raised. Due to the perception that all blacks are that way, many other people - and it is certainly not just whites (some studies have shown they have less bigotry towards blacks than hispanics or asians), don't want anything to do with them. It is a tragedy for the non-ghetto blacks to be painted with the same brush but at the same time, completely understandable and sane when it comes to dealing with people who actually have that ghetto mentality. Like I wrote, previously, the non ghetto blacks contribute to the perception by not being the first to call BS on that group. I personally believe their status in the community at large would rise astronomically if they were candid about the problem. You can say what you want about a slave mentality, talk about Jim Crow, etc., but blaming bad stereotypes and bigoted attitudes on some vestiges of slavery and Jim Crow misses the forest for the trees. For most of us, the headlines of scary black gangbangers who seem to have no respect for human life or call to duty when it comes to work and family are what shape public perception - not the fact that these folks ancestors used to be slaves. And the hard working black people are the ones victimized by this.

It is asking a lot for the black community to demand that whites be able to tell the difference when they themselves won't stand up and point it out.

WOW... JUST WOW. I'm speechless other than WOW.

[PennyQuilts]

WOW... JUST WOW. I'm speechless other than WOW.

Why? because someone spoke candidly? I was completely respectful. And I'm no bigot.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Look at othjer cities, like Detroit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walking...7624812674967/

Wow...8 Mile Road.

[jmarkross]

A bigot (in modern usage) is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own ...
--from Wikipedia--so as not run afoul of anyone whose entire existence revolves around the internet and the qwerty keyboard...

[scootinger]

Obviously in OKC, tha African American population is more prominent in the NE Quad, but it's not as stark a difference as even in Portland or Detroit. In those cities, you can see LINES. It's like someone drew a line in the sand and said, You here, and You here. I'm sure there are municipal boundaries at play, but it's just crazy.

How does I-235 not count? Of particular note, its construction back in the Urban Renewal era practically ripped through a culturally significant black neighborhood (Deep Deuce). It's now being developed into a bland neighborhood of yuppie condos.

[Spartan]

Imagine this..a testy thread over "Race and Ethnicity map in OKC."

...

"You moron, we have good race relations in OKC, dammitt!!" LOL

[ljbab728]

Imagine this..a testy thread over "Race and Ethnicity map in OKC."

...

"You moron, we have good race relations in OKC, dammitt!!" LOL

Why can't we just all get along. LOL

[dankrutka]

Why? because someone spoke candidly? I was completely respectful. And I'm no bigot.

I don't think anyone has a problem with people who speak candidly, but I do have a problem with someone that blames the "good" blacks for not doing more to stop the "bad" blacks. This is called guilt-by-association and you essentially blame all blacks (not just the ones that may be criminals or deviants) for the problem. This is the essence of stereotyping. Maybe you should just treat every person with respect and give them a fair shake instead of blaming a race. It is worse that people of other races (and I would guess that you are white) get to wash their hands of the problem (BTW, this is called white privilege) because, according to your logic, how are white people supposed to know the difference between good and bad blacks?

Your logic is disgusting.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

Imagine this..a testy thread over "Race and Ethnicity map in OKC."

...

"You moron, we have good race relations in OKC, dammitt!!" LOL

haha..i wasnt trying to start an argument. I just thought it was interesting information, that if anything should encourage us to try and remove the invisible boundaries we see in the map. Not encourage us to start fighting.

[bombermwc]

BG and Penny - I think you made my arguement for me, even though you think you are actually making a race arguement. What you said IS SOCIOECONOMICS...NOT RACE. If you base crime statistics off of neighborhoods, then you're basing it off of socioeconomics. The racial makeup of that neighborhood has 0%, zero, nadda, zilch, to do with the crime rate.

Hell if I based my opinion of the crime rate in Edmond off of how many times I saw Lynda Chu on TV, I'd think it was an inner-city thugfest.

Just because a person is of one race, does not predispose them to a life of, or life lacking, crime. There's no nature vs. nuture arguement. It's just as possisble for a white person to end up in a life of crime as a black person. What I will agree with is that statistically, you might see higher numbers of a particular group, but that can be traced back to their economic condition and the social means to that end.

With your arguement, I should be worried that my black neighbors are going to rob me one day simply because they are black and that's about the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. This isn't the Jim Crowe era, so leave your racist crap in your own head.

[jmarkross]

God Bless you--Matthew Harrison Brady!...

[PennyQuilts]

With your arguement, I should be worried that my black neighbors are going to rob me one day simply because they are black and that's about the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. This isn't the Jim Crowe era, so leave your racist crap in your own head.

Clearly, you didn't even read what I wrote. Perhaps that is one of the reasons so many people are so quick to label others as racist - lack of thinking or reading comprehension. I ask you to be fair and go back and read my posts (and I've posted several on this thread) and then come back and defend your outrageous statement. If you are like most cowards, you will toss out that ugly comment and then slink away rather than admit you were accusing others unjustly.

[PennyQuilts]

I don't think anyone has a problem with people who speak candidly, but I do have a problem with someone that blames the "good" blacks for not doing more to stop the "bad" blacks. This is called guilt-by-association and you essentially blame all blacks (not just the ones that may be criminals or deviants) for the problem. This is the essence of stereotyping. Maybe you should just treat every person with respect and give them a fair shake instead of blaming a race. It is worse that people of other races (and I would guess that you are white) get to wash their hands of the problem (BTW, this is called white privilege) because, according to your logic, how are white people supposed to know the difference between good and bad blacks?

Your logic is disgusting.

Look, if the black folks aren't willing to differentiate between the ones who are criminals and the ones who aren't, they shouldn't expect anyone else to, either. Why are you holding whites to a higher standard? Usually it is because people like you think black folks are just children who aren't capable of using their brains and also think "they" are all alike. Give me a break. My logic isn't disgusting but your racism is, however. I don't believe any race should be excused from being responsible but you apparently do.

[PennyQuilts]

I don't think anyone has a problem with people who speak candidly, but I do have a problem with someone that blames the "good" blacks for not doing more to stop the "bad" blacks. This is called guilt-by-association and you essentially blame all blacks (not just the ones that may be criminals or deviants) for the problem. This is the essence of stereotyping. Maybe you should just treat every person with respect and give them a fair shake instead of blaming a race. It is worse that people of other races (and I would guess that you are white) get to wash their hands of the problem (BTW, this is called white privilege) because, according to your logic, how are white people supposed to know the difference between good and bad blacks?

Your logic is disgusting.

And please define "the problem." If you mean the crime, poverty, etc., I never blamed the - as you call it - "good" blacks. That is just ridiculous but so many people are so quick to squeal racism as soon as the subject is raised that they don't even pay attention to what it is said - and that is exactly why we can't have an intelligent, candid discussion about the subject in this country. People like YOU are the problem - you make discussion next to impossible in your moralizing and sermonizing.

What I said was that they were contributing to the problem of perception by not calling out those dysfunctional folks. I can't imagine having a problem with that. And I hope you can see the difference because it is a fundamental one. As for the dysfunctional group - there is absolutely no excuse for it. Poverty is the cause but not the excuse.

[TulsaRobert]

As for Tulsa, it's interesting how it's not really showing any concentration of Hispanic population east of 169..or at all anywhere, for that matter.

The data points for these maps are based on 2000 census. At that time, East Tulsa's major populations were mostly white and asian. The hispanic community didn't really establish there until closer to the mid-2000's.

[BG918]

The data points for these maps are based on 2000 census. At that time, East Tulsa's major populations were mostly white and asian. The hispanic community didn't really establish there until closer to the mid-2000's.

The Asian population there has also seen a lot of growth, further south and east of the heavily Hispanic neighborhoods. There is also a concentration of Hispanics that live in and around the Kendall-Whittier neighborhood east of downtown.

[animeGhost]

And please define "the problem."

I'll tell you what the problem is (and if you ever picked up a copy of the black chronicle, you know the "good" black ppl, you'd already know the answer). Its education. In Oklahoma the money allotted to a school is based mainly off of property tax. That in itself sets impoverish areas apart from affluent areas. I can go to edmond and get some of the best public education in america, but if I go to the East Side I'm lookin at getting some of the worst education in america. How is that fair? Its not! Race isn't the issue. Or maybe it is? As long as the privileged continue this moniker that its the black race that should take care of itself when the majority of the state is white therefore making it impossible for blacks to change anything without support of white ppl! Help ourselves! pssh! We have been trying to, but nobody wants to listen!!!

[Midtowner]

I'll tell you what the problem is (and if you ever picked up a copy of the black chronicle, you know the "good" black ppl, you'd already know the answer). Its education. In Oklahoma the money allotted to a school is based mainly off of property tax. That in itself sets impoverish areas apart from affluent areas. I can go to edmond and get some of the best public education in america, but if I go to the East Side I'm lookin at getting some of the worst education in america. How is that fair? Its not! Race isn't the issue. Or maybe it is? As long as the privileged continue this moniker that its the black race that should take care of itself when the majority of the state is white therefore making it impossible for blacks to change anything without support of white ppl! Help ourselves! pssh! We have been trying to, but nobody wants to listen!!!

No, those schools on the NE side benefit from Title 1 money. In OKC, they benefit from MAPS for Kids money as well. Millwood has one of the highest $/student in the state.

The issue there is fairly complex. It's cultural--parents have low academic expectations or just do not care. It's familial--lots of single-parent households as well as kids who have come up through their respective youths in foster care or with grandparents. And administratively, you have a certain schoolboard member, and I'll go ahead and name names--Thelma Parks--who treatedthe NE side like her fiefdom. She ushered in unaccountable and completely useless administrators (such as the one who recently allegedly had her child assault the principal after school) and protected such idiots from being fired. They were instead promoted to positions where they could do less damage. She finally was defeated by Ruth Veales this February. We'll see if that helps, but the change will be slow. Getting rid of the slugs in OKCPS will take time.

[dankrutka]

And please define "the problem." If you mean the crime, poverty, etc., I never blamed the - as you call it - "good" blacks. That is just ridiculous but so many people are so quick to squeal racism as soon as the subject is raised that they don't even pay attention to what it is said - and that is exactly why we can't have an intelligent, candid discussion about the subject in this country. People like YOU are the problem - you make discussion next to impossible in your moralizing and sermonizing.

What I said was that they were contributing to the problem of perception by not calling out those dysfunctional folks. I can't imagine having a problem with that. And I hope you can see the difference because it is a fundamental one. As for the dysfunctional group - there is absolutely no excuse for it. Poverty is the cause but not the excuse.

Again, you are advocating racial stereotyping and blaming all blacks instead of perpetrators of violence, crime, etc... According to your "logic," we should all go ask our black friends to start telling us all the bad stuff about the black people they know. Again, your logic is twisted and, yes, YOU ARE BEING RACIST.
I'd like to apologize to everyone for provoking the village idiot.

[PennyQuilts]

I'll tell you what the problem is (and if you ever picked up a copy of the black chronicle, you know the "good" black ppl, you'd already know the answer). Its education. In Oklahoma the money allotted to a school is based mainly off of property tax. That in itself sets impoverish areas apart from affluent areas. I can go to edmond and get some of the best public education in america, but if I go to the East Side I'm lookin at getting some of the worst education in america. How is that fair? Its not! Race isn't the issue. Or maybe it is? As long as the privileged continue this moniker that its the black race that should take care of itself when the majority of the state is white therefore making it impossible for blacks to change anything without support of white ppl! Help ourselves! pssh! We have been trying to, but nobody wants to listen!!!

What exactly is it you think the black folks need white folks help to change?

DC schools spend a fotunre on its schools and the results are utterly dismal. It isn't directly about money, it is about parental involvement. Kids whose parents are educated and put a value on it - no matter the race - tend to do well. And most of those parents will pay good money to live in a decent neighborhood. Same thing happens when the parents don't encoruage education - the kids take their cue from mom and dad.

I had the pleasure of living in the DC area that has a very strong African American middle class. The ghetto mentality is ridiculous and it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with worthless parents. And ask any middle class black family and they will tell you the same thing. If the strong black middle class can't get the black ghetto folk to wake up, it is asking a lot to expect the white middle class to somehow fix the problem.

As long as black people keep expecting their cultural problems to be the responsibility of white people, nothing whill change for them. They have plenty of fantastic black role models and are far more likely to listen to them than to white folks. A black man who abandons his children knows he is doing wrong. A black woman who has 7 - 8 kids and leaves them alone to go out and smoke crack knows she is doing wrong. A black man who shoots his neighbor knows he is doing wrong. A black man who doesn't even try to work knows he is doing wrong. It is a CULTURAL problem. Pointing out the obvious - work hard, get an education, support your children and don't have more than you can afford, honor your marriage are not secrets. Any race who ignores that does so at its peril. If you look at the financial bottom line of a married black couple with two kids, it looks pretty darn similar to a white married couple with two kids.

[PennyQuilts]

Again, you are advocating racial stereotyping and blaming all blacks instead of perpetrators of violence, crime, etc... According to your "logic," we should all go ask our black friends to start telling us all the bad stuff about the black people they know. Again, your logic is twisted and, yes, YOU ARE BEING RACIST.
I'd like to apologize to everyone for provoking the village idiot.

I honestly can't believe you don't read any better than that. I certainly never blamed anyone for ghetto behavior except the perpetrators.

Let me ask you - why is it okay to complain about white prejudice and stereotyping when people speak in ignorance, when setting the record straight would educate people who don't know any better? Or are white people just supposed to be smarter, better people and understand all the nuances? What is so wrong with black people taking the time to point out that, yes, they have problems but the vast majority of black people do right? Why is that so hard? What are they playing games and then blaming white people for not "just knowing?" You are just wanting to keep black people in the victim, passive role. I have too much respect for my black friends, including former bosses, to treat them like children. I find that offensive. They are adults and should act like it/be treated that way. It won't kill them to take the time to try to reach out. Some people would rather just pout instead of actually try to understand each other.

[dankrutka]

You are utterly ridiculous and there is no point in responding anymore. My last point that I want to make is that we are all in this together. The "ghetto" mentality that you reference is no difference than the "redneck" mentality in failing rural schools. All races have their problems, but I've never had a black parent or student ask me (a white teacher) to be treated differently EVER. Quit stereotyping. Your clearly live in a bubble and know very little about how other people live. I won't argue with you anymore.

[PennyQuilts]

You are utterly ridiculous and there is no point in responding anymore. My last point that I want to make is that we are all in this together. The "ghetto" mentality that you reference is no difference than the "redneck" mentality in failing rural schools. All races have their problems, but I've never had a black parent or student ask me (a white teacher) to be treated differently EVER. Quit stereotyping. Your clearly live in a bubble and know very little about how other people live. I won't argue with you anymore.

I have often compared the two - redneck and ghetto. We agree on that. Nothing I have written would suggest anything different. You are just refusing to grasp what I am saying because you are apparently completely eaten up on this subject. And I didn't even get into whether someone wanted to be treated differently. That wasn't even discussed in this thread. As I said, you are completely eaten up on this. If you didn't have your mind so closed, you'd realize that I am saying exactly the opposite of what you keep insisting. And as for not knowing how other people live, I strongly suggest that you haven't had nearly the experience that I've had on this front. And I respectfully suggest that you haven't had much opportunity to discuss this rationally with middle class black folks. I have and am confident that a very large portion of them feel exactly the way I do about this. In fact, I take my cue from what they have told me.