Wal-Mart Gears Up For Urban Markets

[Larry OKC]

bluedog... interestingly, The last time I shopped at Wal-Mart was last month. Looking for ground veal, I stopped at Buy-for-Less (23rd and Penn... skipped the Neighborhood Market there because I don't shop at Wal-Mart) they didn't have it... drove up to Homeland... nope... passed Belle Isle because surely Cresent Market would have it.... wrong... on the way back I reluctantly go to Belle Isle Wal-Mart... waddayaknow.... ground veal. It actually pissed me off.

Now that is freakin' hilarious...you got ticked off because a store had what you wanted? Got to love it!

[mugofbeer]

We've had this debate a lot of times. I know Wal-Mart tried a few years ago to come downtown and various downtown interests kept them out. The city doesn't want it, unless it rethinks that stance.

Was this a still-active proposal you're working on? Interesting because I don't see Wal-mart expanding like they once were, and I don't see the urban market being as profitable as the podunk market..

Curious, did the downtown interests want to keep Wal Mart out of down town or just didn't want them in a specific location they wanted to go to? Seems an odd statement considering Target was a catalyst for redevelopment north of downtown Dallas and Sams Club and Home Depot have been catalysts for redevelopment in south Denver.

[Spartan]

No seriously... these folks thought they could get a Whole Foods. No freakin joke at all..

[bluedogok]

No seriously... these folks thought they could get a Whole Foods. No freakin joke at all..

They are probably also the same ones that think nothing but high end condo development should go into downtown as well.

[NickFiggins]

Maybe its a little odd, but as far as grocery stores go, I always thought and Aldi like store would be first due to its small foot print (10k-14k sq). I know that they have a limited selection and mainly private labels. Still an Aldi would be better than nothing.

[Spartan]

They are probably also the same ones that think nothing but high end condo development should go into downtown as well.

Yep, although that is being reevaluated as we speak. I think the Whole Foods thing should be reevaluated, but I can totally understand where keeping Wal-Mart out of downtown is a good idea. I can also understand the argument for letting them come downtown..

[soonerguru]

Spartan,

The Wal-Mart that was being planned for downtown was not one of these aesthetically pleasing, "urban" Wal-Marts. Rest assured.

[Spartan]

The point of opposition to Wal-Mart existing period downtown, in any form, notwithstanding.

OKC has more WMs per capita than anywhere on the planet. We have the dubious distinction of being their official test market, and as such, they've moved to completely wipe out their competition in our metro and have cannibalized local competitors in the process. The result is everything in OKC is Wal-Mart, it's absolutely unavoidable. It's the perfect situation for them to test new products and new markets here.

I think that the dearth of Wal-Mart alternatives that exist around OKC make downtown the perfect place to develop those alternatives. That gives downtown something unique that will attract people, I think. If that means keeping WM out at all cost, and trying to lure a Target instead, so be it.

[metro]

Spartan, we are no longer their test market, they've moved it elsewhere; and yes the opposition was mainly because they wanted to build a suburban supercenter downtown. I know I've lived down here for 5 years and have been very active.

[BDP]

Whatever one thinks of Wal-Mart, one has to acknowledge that the risk of allowing Wal-Mart to be the first downtown is compounded by the fact that they use very strong non-compete tactics when developing new locations. In the event of a closure they will leave a property to rot rather than let it be subsequently occupied by any competitors.

When you consider that Wal-Mart's developments are rarely well suited for anything other than their competitors, a Wal-Mart failure downtown could have a much greater impact to downtown than just the direct impact of the failure itself. You would basically end up with a large development on prime downtown real estate that, as long as Wal-Mart had some rights to the property, could not be used again until a suitable tenant that Wal-Mart doesn't regard as competition could move in. Now, it might take me the rest of the year to think of any retail store that could occupy 20k-100k square feet of space that doesn't compete with Wal-Mart in some way. This is why, historically, you rarely see any retail in a former Wal-Mart location for several years after they vacate.

I don't shop at Wal-Marts on a regular basis, but I do like some of their concepts posted on this thread. However, whether the concept is a good fit, I'm not sure that Wal-Mart is a safe long term acquisition for downtown in large part due to their business tactics. Even if it is good for Wal-Mart in general, it may not be good for downtown retail and shopping in general.

In the end, it may be better to wait and let it happen organically with more specialized and local retailers than try and lure another big box to the area. Besides, I kind of think that those who would actually be willing to pay a premium to live downtown would, in part, be doing so to try and create a life that isn't as dependent on frequenting larger non-local mega-store type places. Maybe that's not doable in Oklahoma City at all, but I wouldn't want to give up all hope at this point.