Boathouse Row

[warreng88]

Something like this would work. The Falkirk Wheel cost $22.5 million in 2002. Man, should have added it to MAPS3.

Ho-ly s@!t...

[ljbab728]

That is a monstrosity which we don't need one on our river!!!!!!! It's overwhelming and ugly. It's basically an airborne lock.

[bombermwc]

Well duh it's an lock...but it's a really freaking cool one! No reason they all have to be the typical thing...this one's an amusement park ride....how bout that for the log ride?

[kevinpate]

Personally, I'd just as soon the river and BT canal not have a connection. However, if there were to be one, this might be an okie doke way to do it if other factors are not prohibitive.

[Larry OKC]

kevinpate:

Why would you not want them to be connected?

[kevinpate]

kevinpate:

Why would you not want them to be connected?

Purely selfish on my part. The lack of any physical connection precludes most nighttime BT'ers from visiting the plaza or the pathways at the river spur.
Thus it is still very peaceful over there. Sadly, many canal walkers, and riders, are loudish baffoons. I don't begrudge them their silliness along the canal, but I do enjoy quiet strolls as well.

[ljbab728]

Purely selfish on my part. The lack of any physical connection precludes most nighttime BT'ers from visiting the plaza or the pathways at the river spur.
Thus it is still very peaceful over there. Sadly, many canal walkers, and riders, are loudish baffoons. I don't begrudge them their silliness along the canal, but I do enjoy quiet strolls as well.

I hear that the river is very quiet and peaceful over in Canadian County. When you're developing recreational areas in urban locations, unfortunately, there will always be those who abuse the area and it will be that way anywhere in the country. You can find idiots destroying the peacefulness in Yellowstone or Yosemite National Parks on secluded walkways.

[bombermwc]

Well we know 100% that it won't ever be connected, we're just tossing around fun ideas. The canal is a closed system....they won't connect it to the river. That would be like connecting your pool to a creek...ew.

[Larry OKC]

bombermwc:

But it was supposed to be connected (according to former Mayor Norrick). Plus, the canal extension should deposit into the River (not the other way around), its just that the Canal segments will not be connected to each other.

Steve: do you know if it was always the design for the Canal segments to be disjointed/unconnected, or is this a newer development? The "extension" of the Canal that was proposed right before MAPS 3 was unveiled, does that section physically connect to the existing canal? Isn't there a significant elevation change there too (the Canal begins at slightly below basement level).

[ljbab728]

bombermwc:

But it was supposed to be connected (according to former Mayor Norrick). Plus, the canal extension should deposit into the River (not the other way around), its just that the Canal segments will not be connected to each other.

Steve: do you know if it was always the design for the Canal segments to be disjointed/unconnected, or is this a newer development? The "extension" of the Canal that was proposed right before MAPS 3 was unveiled, does that section physically connect to the existing canal? Isn't there a significant elevation change there too (the Canal begins at slightly below basement level).

Since there is no natural source for the water in the canal that would require a constant artificial replinishing of the water if it connected to the river. That would be expensive and very unpractical.

[Larry OKC]

Doesn't the Canal currently drain into the River (in a ditch like manner)? The important connection is the Canal segments with each other, so someone doesn't have to get on/off several times (and if busy have to wait if the extension boat is full). Yes, it may be expensive to build a lock type system, but we were supposed to have gotten a Canal, going from the Convention Center, to Bricktown, to the River for $9M. Just the Bricktown segment we got cost $23M. The proposed extension from the Convention Center to Bricktown was another estimated $25M and the extension to the River is $3M (2007 Bond Issue). So something that was pitched to the voters as costing $9M is actually going to cost $50M+ when/if ever completed?

[OKCisOK4me]

No, the canal does not drain into the river. They pump out the water every year, clean the canal and then fill it back up. There is a boat ramp at the southern section of the canal for them to get the riverboats out. Maybe you're thinking of that.

[Larry OKC]

Not sure OKCisOK4me...what you said is true (about the yearly draining/cleaning, so maybe it is an overflow or something. Definitely recall an article where some council people were upset about the southern end of the canal wasn't finished like the northern end, was more natural, rock lined etc (the ditch like manner I mentioned). Maybe they went and finished it all the same way later?

[kevinpate]

The south end of the canal has a nice turnaround point for the boats, and a nice sitting area and wall for the walkers. That end has been made nicer since 2003 or so and is far better lit than in days now long gone. Off to the west side of the turnaround is a launch area to insert/remove the tour boats. There is also a small concrete spillway to permit the canal level to be maintained.

It doesn't have the art work or pool area like the northern end has, and it is less peaceful now that parking encroahes so close to the canal and the new Crosstown is going in so close to the south, but it's not shabby.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Functionally, the canal is basically a swimming pool.

[kevinpate]

nah, you can't go noodlin' in most swimming pools.

[Doug Loudenback]

The photos that I took of the Chesapeake Finish Tower and the Devon Boathouse on September 23 are in this post: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...454#post363454 . I also confirm that the bridge is open ... lanes are pared down but two way traffic is entirely possible. One of the photos was taken from the bridge, the others being taken from the walking/jogging/biking trails on the south side of the river. It was a challenge to get to that spot by auto but it can be done.

[metro]

This thread is a prime example of how rumors start and spread. Not sure where Larrys sources are.

[Steve]

Not sure OKCisOK4me...what you said is true (about the yearly draining/cleaning, so maybe it is an overflow or something. Definitely recall an article where some council people were upset about the southern end of the canal wasn't finished like the northern end, was more natural, rock lined etc (the ditch like manner I mentioned). Maybe they went and finished it all the same way later?

Larry, what you're recalling is when former Councilwoman Francis Lowrey complained about early designs for the section of the canal that goes through Regatta Park and connects directly with the river. She was upset over the level of finish that planned at that time. The designs were upgraded quite a bit after that, and I don't recall any further complaints after. As for cleaning - yes, that happens with both the section that flows through through Bricktown and the river itself (including the canal segment you mention). I hope this answers your question. Not sure about rumors getting started here ... just a question about history.

Here's a story from Oklahoman archives about the Lowrey complaints:

Canal's South End to Be "Ditch," Council Member Fumes
By Charolette Aiken
Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 9, 1996
Edition: City, Section: News, Page 01
Councilwoman Frances Lowrey's name was misspelled in this article. (Per Henry Dolive, 1/24/00)

While millions of dollars are being spent for a Bricktown waterway, south Oklahoma City residents will be left with "nothing but a dirt ditch," an irate city councilwoman declared Tuesday.

When voters in 1993 approved a five-year, 1-cent sales tax to pay for the $297 million Metropolitan Area Projects, the $16 million canal was touted as a way to unite residents on the north and south sides of Oklahoma City.

The latest canal designs threatened to pit council members against one another in a familiar "north vs. south" tug of war, because under the current plan the north end will be more elaborate than the southern section.

"It's going to be a ditch. Period," Ward 4 Councilwoman Frances Lowery snapped when the plans were unveiled at Tuesday's Oklahoma City Council meeting.

The canal will span about 4,300 feet from Bricktown to the bank of the North Canadian River.

Dennis Clowers of Clowers Engineering said the south leg of the canal will begin at the Santa Fe Railroad tracks and Reno Avenue south of Bricktown.

The south portion of the canal will flow from a turning basin about 400 feet south of Reno Avenue.

"It proceeds to the east and curves back under Interstate 40," Clowers said. "(It) meanders on down to the railroad tracks and then goes through a series of curves on down to the river."

The channel closest to the tracks will sport a concrete bottom with banks made of native stone. Stone will be stacked in varying heights to make it attractive, and the water will be 4 feet deep, Clowers said.

Then there will be a 9-foot drop where the last leg of the canal begins to flow.

"The north canal out of Bricktown goes into an open, pastoral setting. When it goes across the railroad tracks, it changes from a concrete bottom with stone banks into a natural river channel with grass slopes and some boulder treatment," Clowers said.

That irked Lowery.

"The people in south Oklahoma City, who I represent, are absolutely livid over this," she said.

Architects misled voters, Lowery said.

"It's going to be a different canal from the railroad track on down to the river. It's not going to be lined with rock. It's going to be more or less a dirt ditch with grass growing on the side."

Southside voters want the lower half of the canal to be as attractive and as accessible as the north section, Lowery said. "When the people voted on this, we were out there telling them that we would be able to go by boat up the river and up the canal to the Myriad. Now, ... it's coming over and dead-ending," she said.

Mayor Ron Norick disagreed.

"I don't think it's going to be a ditch, Frances," Norick said. "A ditch has no vegetation and no landscaping. I would imagine that the idea is to make it flow with the river. We don't want to end up with a muddy lake. "

That did little to mollify Lowery.

She blamed Frankfurt-Short-Bruza, an architectural firm hired for $10 million to design initial plans for the $297 million MAPS plan.

"It's probably a money matter, and this concerns me a great deal because there was an awful lot of the canal budget transferred to do the two blocks on California Street through Bricktown. Frankfurt-Short-Bruza misled us all along ," Lowery said.

Lowery was backed, in part, by Ward 3 Councilman Jack Cornett, Ward 1 Councilman Frosty Peak and Ward 5 Councilman Jerry Foshee.

Each expressed concern over the designs.

Cornett said the Oklahoma City Riverfront Redevelopment Authority was not given enough time to analyze the plans. Foshee complained that no marina or boat maintenance facility was included in the drawings, while Peak fears there will be too little commercial development on the south canal route.

The matter was deferred for one week.

[Larry OKC]

Steve: Thanks for the article, that is the incident I recalled.

Thanks for confirming part of what I recalled (the connectivity of the Canal, from the Convention Center thru Bricktown to the River)...

Lowery said. "When the people voted on this, we were out there telling them that we would be able to go by boat up the river and up the canal to the Myriad. Now, ... it's coming over and dead-ending,"

Metro: Rumors? Sources for what? Happy to supply anything that I can that is in doubt.

[RockChalk]

Here are some facts I know from working in Bricktown:
*The canal water level is 17 feet higher than the river on average. This would make it impractical to actually connect the water to the river. That being said, there is a plan, which hopefully will be executed, where an arm of the river is extended, past where the Devon boats dock, going under the new highway, and terminating right next to the south end of the Bricktown Canal. When this is completed, Watertaxi passengers can get off the canal boats at the South end and go right down a ramp to the river level and a sidewalk next to the water, which will provide close access to Regatta Park.

[Larry OKC]

RockChalk:

This all gets a bit confusing..are you talking about the $3M "extension" of the Canal (that won't actually connect to the Canal due to elevation changes) that was paid for in the 2007 Bond Issue? Steve also mentioned in an article (obviously dated since the Devon TIF money is being used for Project 180) about a $1M extension that was approved but I am having trouble placing it. Sounds like it is different from the $3M extension

http://newsok.com/tax-increment-fund...rticle/3291738
Tax increment funds could turn Bricktown Canal extension plan into a reality (Oklahoman, 9/2/08)

...let's just look at the latest expenditure approvals, which include $1.05 million for a small extension of the Bricktown Canal south to Reno Avenue.
The project will create a major new entryway for the canal for people walking to and from Ford Center.

Has this $1M extension been built? Sounds like it was already approved/funded or did it get scrapped when the Devon TIF was redirected into Project 180?

If one of the mapping gurus could plot it and post...

[Steve]

OK, gang, we're talking about two different extensions here.
1. Rockchalk has it exactly right. The 2007 bond issue pays for the canal segment that goes through Regatta Park to be extended up under the new I-40 and will terminate just south of what we refer to as the Bricktown Canal.
2. TIF funding remains in place for a potential short extension between the northern most terminus of the canal up to Reno. This was tied to the Harding & Shelton development, which has been scaled back but is still proceeding. City officials are weighing whether to continue with this extension. Don't count on it happening anytime soon - but it's still a possibility.
Capiche?

[bombermwc]

There's also some misunderstanding of the intent of the origional design. Every concept that was, did NOT connect the canal to the river. As long as they've walked about it, they planned on them NOT meeting. The elevation change is the #1 reason for that. Not to mention that the canal boats are not capable of running on the river and the riverboats can't fit in the canal. You would have to drop the entire canal a whole other entire floor lower (17") in order for it to meet up on the same elevation. The cost for that, or to maintain a lock system, were never seriously considered. There may have been some councilfolk that were not heavily involved in the plans that misunderstood, but that doesn't mean they really "knew" what was being planned. There's a HUGE GINORMOUS difference between a close water system like the canal and a river. This isn't San Antonio folks, we don't have an actual river here. As cool as that would have been, it just isn't what we had.

The extension is merely for bringing the two systems closer so that when you disembark from boat #1, you can walk a shorter distance to boat #2. But uh, let's be realistic....how many of us have even taken a river cruise yet? How many tourists even know it's there when they stay on Meridian (and it's of no use to anyone but a Meridian tourist right now...maybe in 30 years when there is more development like the Norick plan, but not now)? So does it even matter? Not really.

[okclee]

Wouldn't it be less expensive to replace the water taxi's with Duck Tour Boats? There would be no need to connect the canal to the river and it would be lots of fun for families.