Wal-Mart Gears Up For Urban Markets

[bluedogok]

I know in the Dep Duece proposal that I worked on it included a Neighborhood Market and a Walgreen's, we were doing some of the Walgreen's in Oklahoma and the Arkansas office was doing some work for Wal-Mart corporate, they had enough interest to at least be included on the site planning phase that I worked on.

Looks like they are looking seriously into the urban market. I know a lot of people like to bash Wal-Mart but getting one into the Downtown OKC area could be the catalyst for others to set up shop.

Forbes - Wal-Mart Gears Up For Urban Markets

Yahoo Finance - Wal-Mart to aggressively roll out smaller stores

[Spartan]

We've had this debate a lot of times. I know Wal-Mart tried a few years ago to come downtown and various downtown interests kept them out. The city doesn't want it, unless it rethinks that stance.

Was this a still-active proposal you're working on? Interesting because I don't see Wal-mart expanding like they once were, and I don't see the urban market being as profitable as the podunk market..

[krisb]

Bottom-line, downtown wants grocery. Whoever comes first gets the business.

[jmarkross]

Wal-Mart gets bashed because they are successful. The biggest bashers shop there as well--because money talks and BS walks. Personally, I think Walgreen's the one of the most over-priced and useless stores around--though quite attractive to look at--you could ever find.

[SkyWestOKC]

Bottom-line, downtown wants grocery. Whoever comes first gets the business.

Absolutely!

[bluedogok]

Was this a still-active proposal you're working on?

I can't remember how many years ago, something like 10 or so. It was the original Deep Deuce proposal before any of it was built that went to the Dallas developers. I worked on some early stuff on it but never really saw the final package that we sent out.

Interesting because I don't see Wal-mart expanding like they once were, and I don't see the urban market being as profitable as the podunk market..

I think it is because their growth in the large centers is flat and they have already built out most of the areas they are already in. Since all the stock market seems to care about is growth they need to grow somewhere else so they an Target are looking at an area where both are lacking, urban stores. As people have started migrating back into urban residential it seems a natural plus it is a concept that can be utilized in traditional urban areas that they are not in already like NYC.

[fuzzytoad]

We've had this debate a lot of times. I know Wal-Mart tried a few years ago to come downtown and various downtown interests kept them out. The city doesn't want it, unless it rethinks that stance.

Would these be the same "downtown interests" that ok'd McDonalds?

[okclee]

Hasn't Okc been a test market for walmart in the past?

I was thinking that Okc had the first sam's and also had the first wm market center. If done right this could be good. What would be better is a crest urban market or even a nicer urban type of a Braums. Two local businesses that could invest in downtown Okc.

[metro]

Would these be the same "downtown interests" that ok'd McDonalds?

Nope, most of us downtowners didn't want the McDonalds. That was Bricktown Associations mess.

[soonerguru]

Hasn't Okc been a test market for walmart in the past?

I was thinking that Okc had the first sam's and also had the first wm market center. If done right this could be good. What would be better is a crest urban market or even a nicer urban type of a Braums. Two local businesses that could invest in downtown Okc.

Braum's? Hell no! I don't think they "get it."

[bluedogok]

I think from a retailing perspective a Braum's would work great, a restaurant, store and ice cream shop in one although their execution may not be spot on. They have a great concept, I just wish they could get their act together in store operations....and build one closer to Austin than Hillsboro.

As far as McDonald's down there, I think there needs to be some variety in the restaurants down there in terms of pricing/style. An area that is exclusively sit down and/or upscale doesn't lend itself to the the average worker at lunch for both time and cost reasons. I rarely ate in a "sit down" restaurant when I worked in downtown OKC or Dallas for those reasons.

[okclee]

Braum's? Hell no! I don't think they "get it."

What was I thinking! You are right, especially considering I sent Braum's an email recently letting them know how poor of condition the Classen store is in.

Although if Braum's were to ever be bought out by a company, or bring in a top level exec outsider that knows what they are doing, I believe they could take off nationwide.

The concept is great, ice cream, fresh hamburgers, dairy store, and now with a market all in one.

[megax11]

Wal-Mart gets bashed because they are successful. The biggest bashers shop there as well--because money talks and BS walks. Personally, I think Walgreen's the one of the most over-priced and useless stores around--though quite attractive to look at--you could ever find.

I used to shop there for all my needs, minus clothes, but now I shop at the new Crest, so other places can make money.

People don't only hate Walmart because they are successful. They hire imigrants and pay them less than minimum wage, because they don't know any better. They were responsible for the death of a woman who asked for time off to go to the doctor because she was sick. They threatened her, by stating, "you could lose your job," and she died on the job after collapsing.

They even exhumed bodies from a graveyard, threw them in the back of a truck, and did something with them so they could build a Walmart on a burial ground.

There are numerous moms and pops stores driven out of business, because Walmart moves in on their teritory. There are numerous websites created by Walmart employees, who try to be treated fairly. Walmart has the highest turnaround rate (people quitting) of all retail stores. They were even the topic of a documentary called, "Walmart: The high cost of low prices."

They are a shady business, who puts their employees in all of the wrong places... I can call them and ask for a video game that's been released. They will say they never heard of it, because either they haven't (shouldn't be working in electronics), or they want to rush people off the phone (shouldn't have a job at all).

The latter I've experienced. I called them from inside a store once, from the toy aisle. I asked them to check and see if they had a certain Transformer, which they did. The lady told me, "Hang on. I'll go check." I am sitting in the toy Aisle. She comes back on the phone 2 minutes later, saying, "Sorry. We don't have it." She didn't walk down the toy aisle.

Yeah... I've been treated better, but Walmart is a store I no longer support. In my case, BS doesn't walk. Crest is as cheap or cheaper, in the grocery department, while having a better selection. I don't deck myself out in bootleg clothing lines like Walmart has (I dress in Hollister, Buckle, A&F, AE, Dillards), and their video games don't come as cheap as Toys R Us, who offers giftcards with most of the new game releases. They have been slacking in the toy department as well. So why do I need Walmart?

[TheTravellers]

Wal-Mart gets bashed because they are successful. The biggest bashers shop there as well--because money talks and BS walks. Personally, I think Walgreen's the one of the most over-priced and useless stores around--though quite attractive to look at--you could ever find.

Just to refute your generalized premise, I'm a huge basher of Wal-Mart, and I do not shop there, Sam's, or Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market. I also try not to shop at Target, but sometimes have to. Sorry, it's off-topic, but I had to reply and put a contrary data point in the mix.

[jbrown84]

Would these be the same "downtown interests" that ok'd McDonalds?

They ok'd that McDonalds after significant changes to the building design and site plan. I have a feeling Walmart's attempt at entering downtown involved a store just as suburban as the ones in Edmond, and THAT'S why it was "kept out" by downtown interests.

[MikeOKC]

An example of an "urban" WalMart...



And an "urban" Neighborhood Market...




I have to admit that's pretty impressive, imo.

[Spartan]

Would these be the same "downtown interests" that ok'd McDonalds?

Yes, and jbrown--I'm not entirely sure but as I understand WM would have been very willing to compromise on the design. That's not why it was kept out, it was kept out because people wanted a Whole Foods downtown. That's obviously not in the cards now since that went to Nichols Hills along with everything else it looks like..

[Bunty]

Just to refute your generalized premise, I'm a huge basher of Wal-Mart, and I do not shop there, Sam's, or Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market. I also try not to shop at Target, but sometimes have to. Sorry, it's off-topic, but I had to reply and put a contrary data point in the mix.

Then let's hope that Wal-Mart doesn't get into the used goods business and claim the mom and pop owned thrift stores as their next victims.

[Bunty]

Wal-Mart gets bashed because they are successful. The biggest bashers shop there as well--because money talks and BS walks. Personally, I think Walgreen's the one of the most over-priced and useless stores around--though quite attractive to look at--you could ever find.

So I counter that by only buying stuff in Walgreen's with their coupons or what's really reduced in price as advertised, and resist the urge to buy anything else.

[soonerguru]

I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart in several years, except for an out-of-town vacation at midnight: I bought a bottle of wine! Guess that makes me a hypocrite.

Actually, by convincing friends and family to quit shopping there, I have personally cost that company tens of thousands of dollars a year.

[kevinpate]

I'm thinking maybe they'll survive the pain of the loss.
The lovely pops in regularly. I tend to shop elsewhere when I shop.
I don't hate them or nothing. It's more that I'm odd enough looking I could end up on a people of walmart page, and that might bother the kiddos.

[Spartan]

I only shop at Wal-Mart when I'm in Oklahoma. When I'm in Calgary or another state I never really go to WM. The reality is that WM controls the OKC market like no other. Do we really want them downtown, when downtown has a chance to be successful as an alternative to what already exists everywhere else in the metro (Wal-Marts)..

Now, I agree that there MUST be big-box retail. I also agree that Target is not coming downtown without any new developments coming to the fore. Does the possibility of WM coming in and sealing the market before Target can even get a chance qualify as a new development? I think it may be possible to parlay WM's very serious efforts to come downtown into a chance to get Target to reconsider, whereas they would otherwise not come downtown, plus they're only adding 20 stores this year.

[bluedogok]

The thing about Wal Mart is they are much more dynamic in store design than the retailing behemoth they replaced at the top, Sears. They are also a different company now than they were 10 years ago, or 10 years before that and different than when Sam was actually running things. They are not as stagnant as many of their competitors when trying new concepts. The rendering of the "urban" Wal Mart is the one currently being built at the former Northcross Mall in North/Central Austin. I think it doesn't matter who locates downtown, a big national name will legitimize downtown OKC for retail much like The Spaghetti Warehouse did in jump starting Bricktown and raising the profile of the area.

I have actually shopped at Wal Mart twice in the past few months, I do frequent Sam's much more often than a Wal Mart and our "warehouse store" visits are pretty evenly split between Sam's and Costco. We bought a canopy to use at the beach (Port Aransas) and with all my research Wal Mart had the best combination of features and price. This included in-store comparison shopping at Academy, Dick's, Sports Authority, Cabela's, REI and online at Campmor and the websites of the aforementioned stores. The last trip was Labor Day weekend, I went all over looking for a pork butt to smoke to make pulled pork, I looked at Costco, Sam's, HEB, Central Market, Randall's, Target, Newflower and Sprout's. Sam's had one but I didn't need 25 lbs. of pork butt and the only other place I found one was at Wal-Mart, I also got some good baby back ribs to smoke as well. I don't go there often but I usually find what I am looking for when I do go there.

[Platemaker]

bluedog... interestingly, The last time I shopped at Wal-Mart was last month. Looking for ground veal, I stopped at Buy-for-Less (23rd and Penn... skipped the Neighborhood Market there because I don't shop at Wal-Mart) they didn't have it... drove up to Homeland... nope... passed Belle Isle because surely Cresent Market would have it.... wrong... on the way back I reluctantly go to Belle Isle Wal-Mart... waddayaknow.... ground veal. It actually pissed me off.

[Rover]

The Neighborhood Market by WalMart would do okay downtown. However, it would be locally preferable to have Crest put something in. They just don't seem to be interested in helping out our in doing anything innovative. They won't take a chance on their own city, but will just put in something safe in a safe place. Wish they had a good corporate citizen attitude.