"Why Oklahoma City Could Represent the Future of America"

[bluedogok]

Tolerance goes both ways. People will be tolerant of you if you are tolerant of them.

Many of those that preach "tolerance" are intolerant of any view other than their own no matter the subject.

[MikeOKC]

Many of those that preach "tolerance" are intolerant of any view other than their own no matter the subject.

I would agree with that. The lesson? Be intolerant of anybody preaching tolerance who are actually intolerant themselves and fail to even understand what tolerance means.

[SkyWestOKC]

I'm intolerant of those who are intolerant. I'm tolerant of those who are tolerant... get it? If you claim I am intolerant, you better start pulling up some posts to confirm that.

[mheaton76]

Back on topic ... The The Atlantic Monthly has a related article on the top 20 performing metros today. See here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/

[TheTravellers]

Nice to see your entire existence is based on money--I guess that would make you--a REPUBLICAN??? Or--is it something else that made you forsake all you stand for?...

Good god, just reading your posts in this thread, I've concluded you're a complete idiot. Again, a stupid **** assuming you know something about me because of one post I made.

It's not even worth my time explaining to you what my situation was and why I had to move back, but I just had to post *something* against your massive stupidity - not everything is as black and white as you seem to think it is.

Oh yeah, just so you know, a huge proportion of society's entire existence is based on money, if you have a house, utility bills, a desire to eat, etc. (unless you own your home, generate your own power, and grow your own food, etc., which very few people do).

As far as Republican, you are absolutely so far off base, it's just completely ridiculous.

To diggyba - if your skin was green and everybody that lived around you (and the politicians that made the laws) hated green people and constantly made their living environment miserable in various ways (through laws, generally accepted practices, etc.), would you grow some balls and tough it out or leave?

To SkyWestOKC - it's not that easy to just "quit" or "move", unless you're independently wealthy or have a load of money saved, especially now. Trust me, I've moved twice across the country in 3 years, and it's a horrible thing to do (for us anyway, maybe some people move across the country every few years, and if so, they're stronger people than we are). Cuts off friends, family, professional relationships, etc., in addition to massively screwing up your finances for a long time...

[jmarkross]

Good god, just reading your posts in this thread, I've concluded you're a complete idiot. Again, a stupid **** assuming you know something about me because of one post I made.

It's not even worth my time explaining to you what my situation was and why I had to move back, but I just had to post *something* against your massive stupidity - not everything is as black and white as you seem to think it is.

Oh yeah, just so you know, a huge proportion of society's entire existence is based on money, if you have a house, utility bills, a desire to eat, etc. (unless you own your home, generate your own power, and grow your own food, etc., which very few people do).

As far as Republican, you are absolutely so far off base, it's just completely ridiculous.

To diggyba - if your skin was green and everybody that lived around you (and the politicians that made the laws) hated green people and constantly made their living environment miserable in various ways (through laws, generally accepted practices, etc.), would you grow some balls and tough it out or leave?

To SkyWestOKC - it's not that easy to just "quit" or "move", unless you're independently wealthy or have a load of money saved, especially now. Trust me, I've moved twice across the country in 3 years, and it's a horrible thing to do (for us anyway, maybe some people move across the country every few years, and if so, they're stronger people than we are). Cuts off friends, family, professional relationships, etc., in addition to massively screwing up your finances for a long time...

Sadly--the point of the remark flew right over the top of your head...

[SkyWestOKC]

To SkyWestOKC - it's not that easy to just "quit" or "move", unless you're independently wealthy or have a load of money saved, especially now. Trust me, I've moved twice across the country in 3 years, and it's a horrible thing to do (for us anyway, maybe some people move across the country every few years, and if so, they're stronger people than we are). Cuts off friends, family, professional relationships, etc., in addition to massively screwing up your finances for a long time...

So then don't complain if moving is too hard. Don't accept a job somewhere if you are afraid of where you'll be moving to. And, yes, I know about cut off friends and family. Fortunately my industry allows free travel anywhere flown, space available. Or a severely reduced ZED.

[jmarkross]

To SkyWestOKC - it's not that easy to just "quit" or "move", unless you're independently wealthy or have a load of money saved, especially now. Trust me, I've moved twice across the country in 3 years, and it's a horrible thing to do (for us anyway, maybe some people move across the country every few years, and if so, they're stronger people than we are). Cuts off friends, family, professional relationships, etc., in addition to massively screwing up your finances for a long time...

Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

It is the CURSE of a free market economy...Lenin was RIGHT! Under Obama--all these silly choices will be planned by the state...and no more of this needless moving about by the masses...

[bluedogok]

I'm intolerant of those who are intolerant. I'm tolerant of those who are tolerant... get it? If you claim I am intolerant, you better start pulling up some posts to confirm that.

What's your opinion of the Dutch?


The ironic thing is the most liberal people that I know here in Austin both grew up in Oklahoma.

[SkyWestOKC]

What about the Dutch?

[bluedogok]

Just a line out of a movie...

There are two kinds of people I can't stand. Those who are intolerant of other cultures, and the Dutch.

--Michael Caine's character, Nigel Powers, in Austin Powers movie Goldmember.

[SkyWestOKC]

Haha! I do remember that! LOL

[Bunty]

Name some...please...

Just about any local political figure, such as Kirk Humphries and Norick, who have been for raising taxes to support the MAPS projects. To many Oklahoma conservatives, it's considered pretty damned liberal to favor raising taxes and would be branded as a liberal for wanting to raise taxes, any taxes.

[Bunty]

I'm conservative. Would I move to California if a job opened in my industry, yes.

Why not. Much of California, outside of the largest of its coastal metro areas, votes like Oklahoma does.

[jmarkross]

Just about any local political figure, such as Kirk Humphries and Norick, who have been for raising taxes to support the MAPS projects. To many Oklahoma conservatives, it's considered pretty damned liberal to favor raising taxes and would be branded as a liberal for wanting to raise taxes, any taxes.

Raising taxes for a REASON that makes sense...that is ok with conservatives. Midnight basketball or other liberal boondoggles--are not. Liberals raise taxes to try to explore their mindless ideas of a "better world"--and expect those who disagree to pony up their cash for it as well. Conservative thought is a consensus--before the public is taxed. Liberals, suffering from the delusion they have been granted some sort of 'visions' others cannot "see", are often trying to hoodwink others into paying for their experiments. Failure to do so brings vehement and disparaging remarks and accusations and condescending...literally apoplectic fits! Much like a two-year-old...and the nation has grown quite tired of this. As we shall see--quite clearly--on November 2, 2010...

[MikeOKC]

Raising taxes for a REASON that makes sense...that is ok with conservatives. Midnight basketball or other liberal boondoggles--are not. Liberals raise taxes to try to explore their mindless ideas of a "better world"--and expect those who disagree to pony up their cash for it as well. Conservative thought is a consensus--before the public is taxed. Liberals, suffering from the delusion they have been granted some sort of 'visions' others cannot "see", are often trying to hoodwink others into paying for their experiments. Failure to do so brings vehement and disparaging remarks and accusations and condescending...literally apoplectic fits! Much like a two-year-old...and the nation has grown quite tired of this. As we shall see--quite clearly--on November 2, 2010...

I agree with much of this. The entitlement culture has become too ingrained and we can no longer afford it. But I also think big business has become too reliant on handouts and "incentives" that government - at every level - can no longer afford. It all has to stop. Individuals, big business, banks, everyone.

[jmarkross]

I agree with much of this. The entitlement culture has become too ingrained and we can no longer afford it. But I also think big business has become too reliant on handouts and "incentives" that government - at every level - can no longer afford. It all has to stop. Individuals, big business, banks, everyone.

I am with you 100%...let those who FAIL--fail...if investors lose--they will invest better in the future. If big banks go bankrupt--sell off their assets. AND--boards of directors need to be financially responsible for failures--and their appointed executives. If you gain on the way up--you LOSE on the way down. Without that...chaos ensues...and has...

[TheTravellers]

So then don't complain if moving is too hard. Don't accept a job somewhere if you are afraid of where you'll be moving to. And, yes, I know about cut off friends and family. Fortunately my industry allows free travel anywhere flown, space available. Or a severely reduced ZED.

"...don't complain if moving is too hard" - Really? Sometimes people have to move. We were pretty much out of options on our second move (the first move was our doing and probably should not have been made, since it set off this whole chain of events), so we just had to move.

OK, so here's an explanation of why we moved, just to clear up any misconceptions and assumptions (and so I can just cut/paste the link to this post so I won't have to re-type it again next time some high and mighty has-it-all person wants to declaim from their throne how I should live my life ) - moved from OKC 15 years ago because I couldn't stand the homophobia, racism, intolerance, Christianity (both faux and real because it's so OTT here), good ol' boy network, etc. Lived in a large metro area for 12 years (and had a hell of a fun time there), but realized we couldn't handle any more of the winters and could never afford a house where we wanted to live. So then we moved to the PNW (sadly, without doing enough research because we just wanted to leave) and the job I took there turned out to be complete sh** and my wife could not get a job in her industry at all. Miserable place to live. Then because I was the highest paid person in my dept., I (and one other guy) got laid off. By then, things sucked all over the USA, so I couldn't find a job in KC, STL, Phoenix, etc. Then a job came through in OKC, so I moved back. When neither person has a job and can't find one in your area, you have to go somewhere else to get one (haven't you been reading about that happening all over the USA? Iwt's becoming way more common). Sometimes you just cannot stay where you are and have to move. If you have no money coming in (except unemployment) and you find a job across the country, you move. And if your employer doesn't pay moving costs, you pay them yourself.

It'd be real nice to have lots of money, a steady job and not get laid off, and be able to live exactly where you wanted and afford the house you want, but that just ain't happening for a lot of people, including me.

[okclee]

Now that you are back, has anything changed as far as the people in Okc?

[jmarkross]

"...don't complain if moving is too hard" - Really? Sometimes people have to move. We were pretty much out of options on our second move (the first move was our doing and probably should not have been made, since it set off this whole chain of events), so we just had to move.

OK, so here's an explanation of why we moved, just to clear up any misconceptions and assumptions (and so I can just cut/paste the link to this post so I won't have to re-type it again next time some high and mighty has-it-all person wants to declaim from their throne how I should live my life ) - moved from OKC 15 years ago because I couldn't stand the homophobia, racism, intolerance, Christianity (both faux and real because it's so OTT here), good ol' boy network, etc. Lived in a large metro area for 12 years (and had a hell of a fun time there), but realized we couldn't handle any more of the winters and could never afford a house where we wanted to live. So then we moved to the PNW (sadly, without doing enough research because we just wanted to leave) and the job I took there turned out to be complete sh** and my wife could not get a job in her industry at all. Miserable place to live. Then because I was the highest paid person in my dept., I (and one other guy) got laid off. By then, things sucked all over the USA, so I couldn't find a job in KC, STL, Phoenix, etc. Then a job came through in OKC, so I moved back. When neither person has a job and can't find one in your area, you have to go somewhere else to get one (haven't you been reading about that happening all over the USA? Iwt's becoming way more common). Sometimes you just cannot stay where you are and have to move. If you have no money coming in (except unemployment) and you find a job across the country, you move. And if your employer doesn't pay moving costs, you pay them yourself.

It'd be real nice to have lots of money, a steady job and not get laid off, and be able to live exactly where you wanted and afford the house you want, but that just ain't happening for a lot of people, including me.

You may not understand how similar your life has been to many of your fellow contributors here. You have, no doubt learned a lot along the way--having seen so many different places and how people live and think. I spent most of my adult life in Southern California--why?--THE WEATHER! I retired in Oklahoma because I would never try to be an old person in a place that hates them, and where home prices are silly--and we surely see that now and I have lots of friends who lost their butts in real estate. Moving is excruciating--and damn hard. But, you have to accept your own choices and learn from them. What else can one do? Venting is ok too! There is no nirvana where people are all sweet and nice and think alike...unless you live in a cult or an ashram or somewhere like Jonestown...your world is your family, I am sure you would agree.

[CaseyCornett]

People all over OKCtalk have been crabby lately. Ugh. I'll check back in Monday to see if people actually want to "Talk OKC"

[jmarkross]

People all over OKCtalk have been crabby lately. Ugh. I'll check back in Monday to see if people actually want to "Talk OKC"

It is not a place for the faint-hearted...it is true. But--then neither was the Virginia House of Burgesses...or...the Constitutional Convention who formed the nation...I suggest evangelical websites for consistent pleasantries and fluff...

[Bunty]

OK, so here's an explanation of why we moved, just to clear up any misconceptions and assumptions (and so I can just cut/paste the link to this post so I won't have to re-type it again next time some high and mighty has-it-all person wants to declaim from their throne how I should live my life ) - moved from OKC 15 years ago because I couldn't stand the homophobia, racism, intolerance, Christianity (both faux and real because it's so OTT here), good ol' boy network, etc. :

I'm not surprised anyone would feel like moving from OKC 10 to 15 years ago, because that was about the same time OKC was trying to ban the movie "The Tin Drum". Thank goodness, OKC has changed so much for the better since then from the very backward side of conservatism. You can complain about Sally Kern these days, but OKC to counter her has Oklahoma's first and only openly gay rep at the State Capitol.

[TheTravellers]

Now that you are back, has anything changed as far as the people in Okc?

Good question!

Better: There are a lot more freaks here now (which is a good thing ), um, crap, can't think of more "better" things yet...

Worse: Drivers are way more stupid than they used to be, more intolerance, conservatism, and religion-oriented in general (some of the nation's strictest anti-abortion laws (thankfully not all in effect now), 10 commandments monument, anti-gay city councilman, etc.).

Maybe it's my general pessimism that doesn't let me see much more "better" as far as people go, but it just doesn't seem that much changed people-wise here in OKC for the better. Seems like other things have trended downward too - infrastructure, competence. And mind you, this is my own personal experience, I'm not saying everybody is incompetent or intolerant, etc. People here still seem to have as much courtesy/niceness in person as they used to have (opening doors, general pleasantries, etc.), but that can't go in the "better" column since it hasn't changed. :-)

Wow, that's kind of depressing to see that I can only see one thing that has gotten better people-wise... Any other expatriates that have returned see more "better" things than I do?

[jmarkross]

I'm not surprised anyone would feel like moving from OKC 10 to 15 years ago, because that was about the same time OKC was trying to ban the movie "The Tin Drum". Thank goodness, OKC has changed so much for the better since then from the very backward side of conservatism. You can complain about Sally Kern these days, but OKC to counter her has Oklahoma's first and only openly gay rep at the State Capitol.

Religious zealotry is no more connected to conservatism than liberalism is to islamic terrorism...