Whole Foods

[okclee]

I am curious to know what Okc or Tulsa WF would do if Oklahoma were to ever change their ABLE laws? Would they expand their stores or would they be able to make room in their existing stores?

I don't think that Oklahoma is that far off from offering wine and chilled high alcohol beer in grocery stores.

[kevinpate]

... I don't think that Oklahoma is that far off from offering wine and chilled high alcohol beer in grocery stores.

Odd, as it's crossed my mind a time or three that we're probably as far away, if not further away, than we were used to be.
Some powerful groups don't want the status quo changed. As more and more term limited folks go, the power of the lobby groups will increase, not decrease.
We're on the brink of an all time high of social conservatism in state leadership.
This is not exactly a perfect storm for installing far more convenient access to stronger adult beverages.

I could be wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

[king183]

Odd, as it's crossed my mind a time or three that we're probably as far away, if not further away, than we were used to be.
Some powerful groups don't want the status quo changed. As more and more term limited folks go, the power of the lobby groups will increase, not decrease.
We're on the brink of an all time high of social conservatism in state leadership.
This is not exactly a perfect storm for installing far more convenient access to stronger adult beverages.

I could be wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

Man, this really frustrates me, people attributing our laws against selling wine in grocery stores to "social conservatives." It's not that at all. As one of those crazy social conservatives, I fully support selling liquor and wine in stores.

As we've discussed before, the laws against wine/liquor in stores are in place because of the liquor lobby. They are very powerful. I believe the Gazette did a story on this a few months ago and how liquor store owners and their lobbyists are thwarting the sale of wine and liquor in stores because they think it will kill their business. We all know that reasoning is B.S., but that's why they're against it, at least ostensibly. If we really want to change the laws in this area, it's best to understand exactly who is opposing the changes and why.

[bluedogok]

Man, this really frustrates me, people attributing our laws against selling wine in grocery stores to "social conservatives." It's not that at all. As one of those crazy social conservatives, I fully support selling liquor and wine in stores.

As we've discussed before, the laws against wine/liquor in stores are in place because of the liquor lobby. They are very powerful. I believe the Gazette did a story on this a few months ago and how liquor store owners and their lobbyists are thwarting the sale of wine and liquor in stores because they think it will kill their business. We all know that reasoning is B.S., but that's why they're against it, at least ostensibly. If we really want to change the laws in this area, it's best to understand exactly who is opposing the changes and why.

I think we all know a social conservative or two that is not in favor of changing the current liquor laws unless it moves closer to prohibition. They are not who is behind the lobbying but they support the outcome. It's one of those politics makes for some strange bedfellows moments....

[Easy180]

I think it is a combo of the strong liquor lobby and a good amount of folks who believe Footloose was set in the ideal city

[soonerguru]

Man, this really frustrates me, people attributing our laws against selling wine in grocery stores to "social conservatives." It's not that at all. As one of those crazy social conservatives, I fully support selling liquor and wine in stores.

As we've discussed before, the laws against wine/liquor in stores are in place because of the liquor lobby. They are very powerful. I believe the Gazette did a story on this a few months ago and how liquor store owners and their lobbyists are thwarting the sale of wine and liquor in stores because they think it will kill their business. We all know that reasoning is B.S., but that's why they're against it, at least ostensibly. If we really want to change the laws in this area, it's best to understand exactly who is opposing the changes and why.

Congrats to you. Most of the social conservatives I know are against alcohol of any kind, period. They are also against sex outside of marriage and just about anything else that is fun or provides the human host a pleasurable experience.

You're almost right about the liquor lobby, though. It's not really the liquor lobby, so much as it the distributors and wholesalers who have a racket and don't want to part with it. It is a joke. And the liquor stores are playing right into the hands of the distributors by opposing wine and beer in grocery stores. Joke.

[okclee]

Construction is well underway, with Smith and Pickel being the General Contractor. Still no architectural renderings of the Whole Foods. Would like to get a glimpse of what this project will look like, even if it is a rough draft sketch in black and white.

[metro]

No renderings that I can find, but I found their construction webcam though:

http://oxblue.com/pro/open/smithandpickel/wholefoods

[okclee]

Very cool! This will be fun to watch.

I was by there today and saw what looked like architects and the g.c. on the job site all looking at the plans. I wanted to drive up to them and see if I could get a sneak peek of the elevation drawing.

[Pete]

DelCamino and others in the OKC planning department should be able to share the plans that have been filed.

[BG918]

Trader Joe's is getting closer, opening two stores in the Kansas City metro (one in Missouri, one in Kansas). The Kansas store will not sell high point beer/wine or liquor (Kansas law prohibits it). I could see them moving into OKC and Tulsa in the next few years.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/09/15...o-kc-area.html

[metro]

I imagine things will start shaping up pretty soon. They poured a little bit of concrete "footing" (I think that's what it's called) last week. They have also graded and staked the site pretty well. I bet they start tying all that rebar any day now that's been sitting there for awhile. Some days it looks like they are going full steam and then you don't see anyone for days. This is the weirdest construction site ever. I also noticed Chesapeake had their surfs out putting Christmas lights on the trees this morning.

[jbrown84]

Being in California now, I have to admit it's jarring to see hard liquor within reach of small children in regular grocery stores.

[dankrutka]

Being in California now, I have to admit it's jarring to see hard liquor within reach of small children in regular grocery stores.

Why? Do you think that a small child is going to open a bottle of liquor and start downing it. I'm not sure why it would be a problem if a child was near unopened liquor.
OK's liquor laws are obviously a joke.

[bluedogok]

Being in California now, I have to admit it's jarring to see hard liquor within reach of small children in regular grocery stores.

Even in a fairly religiously conservative state like Indiana I was surprised to see it in every grocery store and pharmacy.

[king183]

Congrats to you. Most of the social conservatives I know are against alcohol of any kind, period. They are also against sex outside of marriage and just about anything else that is fun or provides the human host a pleasurable experience.

You're almost right about the liquor lobby, though. It's not really the liquor lobby, so much as it the distributors and wholesalers who have a racket and don't want to part with it. It is a joke. And the liquor stores are playing right into the hands of the distributors by opposing wine and beer in grocery stores. Joke.

If most social conservatives you know are "against alcohol of any kind," then you live a very sheltered life and don't meet enough people. Saying most social conservatives are against alcohol is just dumb, and you can see that simply by going out on any given weekend and talking with people.

Also, I'm not "almost" right about the liquor lobby--I'm 100% right. I'm good friends with their main lobbyist and we discuss this often. What I said was almost straight from the lobbyist's mouth.

[jbrown84]

Why? Do you think that a small child is going to open a bottle of liquor and start downing it. I'm not sure why it would be a problem if a child was near unopened liquor.

I didn't say I had a problem with it, just that it was an odd sight that you didn't see in Oklahoma.

[soonerguru]

If most social conservatives you know are "against alcohol of any kind," then you live a very sheltered life and don't meet enough people. Saying most social conservatives are against alcohol is just dumb, and you can see that simply by going out on any given weekend and talking with people.

Also, I'm not "almost" right about the liquor lobby--I'm 100% right. I'm good friends with their main lobbyist and we discuss this often. What I said was almost straight from the lobbyist's mouth.

I think you're confusing "conservatives" with "social conservatives," you know, the folks who are against gays, sex education, video games, R-rated movies, etc. I have been surrounded by them my whole life. I'm quite familiar and completely unsheltered from them unfortunately, and they're not big liquor fans.

[Pete]

I didn't realize that CHK had not only torn down the Kensington apartments but also that small office building and funny little structure that spanned the creek just north of the Whole Foods site (shown in yellow).

I did read they received permission from the city to terrace that creek, similar to what they've done on their campus. That should make a great improvement to that area, as it's pretty much a drainage ditch now.

Still, I'm sorry to see that office building go. As I recall, it had an atrium inside of it.

[bluedogok]

I think that was the Reserve National Life building.

[metro]

The site plan sure does look awful small for Whole Foods, I don't see how it's 40,000 sq. ft. If you drive by you can see the concrete foundation (not a slab) that they have poured. Still looks like an odd layout to me, but hopefully either what they poured is for another building within the development, or it will start to come to life so we can get an idea of the layout, etc. I imagine they will start tying the rebar very soon that has just been laying on the ground for awhile now. On another note, I noticed yesterday and today that they have been working on covering up the drainage ditch just to the north of where the building is, between it and the ball field. They put concrete forms over the drainage ditch in some parts and are covering it up with dirt, so this should give back the entire block for development now. I'll try to get pics soon.

[Pete]

40,000 sq. ft. isn't that big... just 200' x 200', which you can see outlined in yellow below.

Also, I think they just kept the part of that old building that used to span the creek and are making it a walkway (shown in green) so people in the office buildings immediately to the north will be able to walk to WF and Classen Curve.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the site currently used as a play field, as they are working on the new parking structure that will replace it. I suspect they will add more retail space right there along Western.

[Pete]

This is probably a good time to refer back to the conceptual CHK campus plan I got my hands on a couple of years ago.

The items in green (car park / play field, Building 14 and Day Care Center -- as well as Whole Foods) are all under construction.

You can see a bridge near the WF site that is part of this plan:

[Martin]

maybe i'm wrong... but from where the footing is being poured, i'm expecting the structure to sit in the center of where the two "L" shaped buildings are in the above site plan. -M

[metro]

mmm, where Pete has the green square marked is where they have been working and poured some sort of a foundation. I drove by today at lunch and took a few pics. Also Pete, the bridge you are referring to is different than what I'm seeing here in person.