Streetcar

[Kerry]

I can't think of any other mode of transportation in the world that uses one-way loops other than systems that deliver everyone to the same destination or scenic roads (i.e. Airport parking garages, airport terminal trams, Walt Disney World parking trams, the road around Stone Mountain). This system is like have two office buildings trying to share the same elevator. In tower A the elevator only goes up and then at the roof it moves over to tower B where it only goes down. If you are in tower B and want to go up 10 floors you either have to ride the elevator all the way around or take the stairs.

[swilki]

I received the following survey in my email.

http://s-d7vaw-344754.sgizmo.com/i/76864e17049472p99797

I urge everyone fill it out but select the 'Other' options and leave comments on how UTTERLY DREADFUL these conceptual drawing are. Totally inorganic, stupid, amateur, novelty, un-user-friendly, these proposed 'systems' are.

I really like how they force you into choosing one of the four as "best." They are all horrible. OKC's leaders will never truly understand how mass transit is supposed to work, look no further than the current bus system. The light rail project is headed for disaster.

[Kerry]

I really like how they force you into choosing one of the four as "best." They are all horrible. OKC's leaders will never truly understand how mass transit is supposed to work, look no further than the current bus system. The light rail project is headed for disaster.

The real problem is that they only get one chance to get this right. The anti-rail crowd is looking for the first sign of failure to destory any chance of expanding the system beyond this starter system - and this starter system is loaded with built-in failure. I thought OKC leaders already learned the harsh lessons of one-way streets.

[huskysooner]

Here is my best approach on how to lay out the downtown rail transit/streetcar.

3 lines – all with “trains” that can run in both directions (double ended) so there is no need for “couplet” style tracks a block or two apart running parallel. I don’t really understand why you’d want that if trains can run in both directions – except if there is a frequency issue. This approach would only need 4.35 miles of track. The remaining funds could go toward extending these lines eventually, upkeep, better stations/stops, or putting in another line altogether to take things up to the capitol building. I kind of see it as the approach the University of Oklahoma takes with sidewalks…put in the bare minimum and then see where students walk paths in the grass to find out where the next sidewalk should go. Here are the reasons I think this is the best approach.

• Its incremental. Each of these lines could stand on its own and draw a good amount of ridership. The city could start with the line on Sheridan Ave and then expand north.

• It reduces redundancy.
• It’s based on a “subway model” where riders take one train to a particular stop and then transfer to another. Streetcars are basically just above ground subways.

• It is expandable and doesn’t gravitate toward the “loop” system that closes off expansion.

• The lines are linear, duh. I think studies have shown that people will wait much longer at a stop if they can “see the train coming” down the road. It’s easy to understand and visitors will not struggle with the time schedules and such. Additionally, linear streetcar lines are much cheaper.

Here are my thoughts on the locations:

- The “Bricktown/Entertainment” line – this connects the Film District (big up and coming area of downtown) Central Business District, the Ford Center/Cox Convention Center with Bricktown. I think this is the most important line of them all. I like that its linear. I struggle with whether this should go on Sheridan or Reno Ave.

- The “Broadway” line – this connects the Ford Center and CBD with The Memorial and Broadway (which in my opinion is OKC’s best shot at a “cool” street with fun stores, shops, and nightlife). It has a little jog from Robinson to Broadway, but I think its important to hit both streets. It can bring people riding the “Midtown” line south to the CBD, Ford Center, and even eventually extend further south to the Core to Shore area and the new Boulevard.

- The “Midtown/Medical Corridor” line – This runs on 10th street from the OU Medical Center and Presbyterian Health Foundation complex all the way to St. Anthony’s. The areas along this line would likely develop as housing in Midtown. I feel one consideration being neglected in deciding where to locate the lines is finding non-developed land that can see big improvement with the addition of the line. There is lots of land in Midtown that would be ripe for development AND it would help ensure the future strength of OUHSC and St. Anthony’s with an increased ability to market those hospitals to out of town doctors.

Let me know what you think.

[Kerry]

I like it a lot. I was thinking about this very concept a few nights ago. Grid road networks are very effective and are the best way to move people around. It would make sense rail would follow the same pattern

[CaseyCornett]

Here is my best approach on how to lay out the downtown rail transit/streetcar.

3 lines – all with “trains” that can run in both directions (double ended) so there is no need for “couplet” style tracks a block or two apart running parallel. I don’t really understand why you’d want that if trains can run in both directions – except if there is a frequency issue. This approach would only need 4.35 miles of track. The remaining funds could go toward extending these lines eventually, upkeep, better stations/stops, or putting in another line altogether to take things up to the capitol building. I kind of see it as the approach the University of Oklahoma takes with sidewalks…put in the bare minimum and then see where students walk paths in the grass to find out where the next sidewalk should go. Here are the reasons I think this is the best approach.

• Its incremental. Each of these lines could stand on its own and draw a good amount of ridership. The city could start with the line on Sheridan Ave and then expand north.

• It reduces redundancy.
• It’s based on a “subway model” where riders take one train to a particular stop and then transfer to another. Streetcars are basically just above ground subways.

• It is expandable and doesn’t gravitate toward the “loop” system that closes off expansion.

• The lines are linear, duh. I think studies have shown that people will wait much longer at a stop if they can “see the train coming” down the road. It’s easy to understand and visitors will not struggle with the time schedules and such. Additionally, linear streetcar lines are much cheaper.

Here are my thoughts on the locations:

- The “Bricktown/Entertainment” line – this connects the Film District (big up and coming area of downtown) Central Business District, the Ford Center/Cox Convention Center with Bricktown. I think this is the most important line of them all. I like that its linear. I struggle with whether this should go on Sheridan or Reno Ave.

- The “Broadway” line – this connects the Ford Center and CBD with The Memorial and Broadway (which in my opinion is OKC’s best shot at a “cool” street with fun stores, shops, and nightlife). It has a little jog from Robinson to Broadway, but I think its important to hit both streets. It can bring people riding the “Midtown” line south to the CBD, Ford Center, and even eventually extend further south to the Core to Shore area and the new Boulevard.

- The “Midtown/Medical Corridor” line – This runs on 10th street from the OU Medical Center and Presbyterian Health Foundation complex all the way to St. Anthony’s. The areas along this line would likely develop as housing in Midtown. I feel one consideration being neglected in deciding where to locate the lines is finding non-developed land that can see big improvement with the addition of the line. There is lots of land in Midtown that would be ripe for development AND it would help ensure the future strength of OUHSC and St. Anthony’s with an increased ability to market those hospitals to out of town doctors.

Let me know what you think.

So you're suggesting just one car per track? With 3-4 stops each way I would think there would be a 30 min interval between trains...

[Kerry]

So you're suggesting just one car per track? With 3-4 stops each way I would think there would be a 30 min interval between trains...

there would probably need to be 2 cars on each track. Otherwise, one car on one track is really a one way loop. To go east you might have to go west first and that is what we are trying to avoid.

[Platemaker]

Let me know what you think.

I think it makes perfect sense... glad Kerry and I aren't the only ones.

[Platemaker]

The simplicity of an option like huskysooner's also gives us the option of using the streetcar grid to create other 'lines' based on demand. For example: We have three 'lines' in husky's example... let's call them A Train, B Train, and C Train. Let's say there is demand for a train going directly from St. Anthony's area to Bricktown. You have the option to transfer from C Train to B Train to A Train.... OR.... you can wait for the D Train which just turns on to the next track. Sort of like an Express train. This is how the New York Subways work and Boston's green line. If we keep everything to the grid we are never stuck with those routes... they can at anytime change as the need changes... based on events... based on rush hour.... any number of situations. Here is a google map showing the example.... no extra miles of track are needed. This would also cause more streetcars to be available in the middle of the system (where the most action is) because in the example of Broadway..... you could hop nearly ANY car you want to travel up and down it.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...259b6ff1ac5736

[okclee]

I'm liking this! This would be a great start.

The mileage that is listed, is that one way or two way mileage? Looks like one way mileage.

I believe that each direction counts toward the allotted 6 miles.

[Platemaker]

It's one way... but could easily be trimmed on the west ends of the 10th Street and Sheridan Ave. lines to keep it with in the 6 mile equation.
Shartel to Stiles / SW 3rd to 10th and Broadyway / Walker to Phillips .... would be about exactly 6 miles both ways and still have the integrity of the model.

[okclee]

Here is a good website detailing cities with existing streetcar systems in place and it gives an easy to read layout of the routes in each city.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/e...etcar-systems/

[Platemaker]

That is my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE site... along with http://www.infrastructurist.com/

[Kerry]

If we keep everything to the grid we are never stuck with those routes... they can at anytime change as the need changes... based on events... based on rush hour.... any number of situations.

...or an accident. With loop service a single accident shuts down the entire system.

[Urban Pioneer]

Keep in in mind that 10th street is factored out of the engineering assessments due to the at grade BNSF railroad crossing. I regularly see 10th or 13th headed over to Health Sciences on various concepts. The desire is strong, but the obstacle is great.

[Platemaker]

A few minor adjustments and we're back in business...

[swilki]

A few minor adjustments and we're back in business...

[Kerry]

Maybe the best way to plan step 1 is to determine where we want to end up and reverse engineer a starter system. Here is my draft vision of what a final street car system could/should look like. You will notice that I don't have any rail leaving what I consider the inner loop (1-240/I-44/I-35). If you want to live outside this area get a car.

[Platemaker]

In that case... how's this for a dream...

[Kerry]

In that case... how's this for a dream...

Even better, but a bit extreme. OKC density would have to be pretty high to make that work.

Unless you went with this system
http://www.skytran.net/phpsite/home/Home%20Intro.php

[Watson410]

Is it pretty common for streetcars to be on separate tracks instead of being in a constant cycle (kind of like a circle)?? It seems like it would make a lot more sense. For example, If I'm eating dinner at 1492 and want to go to Bricktown to watch a Redhawks game, I'm going to have to get off and get on three different streetcars, not to mention wait for each street car... No thanks, I'll just drive.

[Kerry]

Is it pretty common for streetcars to be on separate tracks instead of being in a constant cycle (kind of like a circle)?? It seems like it would make a lot more sense. For example, If I'm eating dinner at 1492 and want to go to Bricktown to watch a Redhawks game, I'm going to have to get off and get on three different streetcars, not to mention wait for each street car... No thanks, I'll just drive.

That would be assuming that street cars only stick to the color coded track (maybe I shouldn't have used colors at all). Nothing would stop a street car from going from PSM area all the way to Capitol Hill. I am new to the drawing feature on Google Earth so let me try it again.

[Platemaker]

2 way track = 6 miles

[okclee]

That's beautiful!

[Platemaker]

Actually should have had the south turn on Hudson go all the way to the Boulevard site instead... make the whole thing Uish-shaped...and help the Boulevard out.