New OCU Law School (dead)

[Midtowner]

Gold Star is a very cool building. Even though it's older and the space isn't modern, it's a lot neater and has more character than Sarkey's. Sarkey's is just very blah. A new facility could have been awesome, and that space in Sarkey's could have been used easily by any number of lecture-based departments.

Agreed as to Sarkeys and Gold Star. The later does have a lot of character and is actually very nice/neat/modern on the inside. I probably spent more time than DirtLaw in Gold Star as I took a couple classes which met there, not to mention Income Tax Law with its tax law scavenger hunts.

Sarkey's is very much 90's-institutional-generic-prefab-blah. It's a very nice, very functional building, I will say the courtrooms are very nice, but otherwise, it doesn't seem pretty or particularly well built.

As far as the location being "meh," I don't agree at all. OCU is by far closer to a larger number of legal practitioners than any other school in the state, not to mention within a short distance of the State Capitol and appellate courts. Would the other location have been better? Sure, but we'd only be going from best to far and away the best in that regard.

As far as the faculty being "meh," what do you base that on? I found most to be excellent in all respects. You couldn't hope for a better civil procedure prof than Creel. Heck.. my trial practice class was taught by none other than Bill Conger and Federal Magistrate, Hon. Valerie Couch (formerly of Hartzog, Conger, Cason and Neville).

[DirtLaw]

Agreed as to Sarkeys and Gold Star. The later does have a lot of character and is actually very nice/neat/modern on the inside. I probably spent more time than DirtLaw in Gold Star as I took a couple classes which met there, not to mention Income Tax Law with its tax law scavenger hunts.

Sarkey's is very much 90's-institutional-generic-prefab-blah. It's a very nice, very functional building, I will say the courtrooms are very nice, but otherwise, it doesn't seem pretty or particularly well built.

As far as the location being "meh," I don't agree at all. OCU is by far closer to a larger number of legal practitioners than any other school in the state, not to mention within a short distance of the State Capitol and appellate courts. Would the other location have been better? Sure, but we'd only be going from best to far and away the best in that regard.

As far as the faculty being "meh," what do you base that on? I found most to be excellent in all respects. You couldn't hope for a better civil procedure prof than Creel. Heck.. my trial practice class was taught by none other than Bill Conger and Federal Magistrate, Hon. Valerie Couch (formerly of Hartzog, Conger, Cason and Neville).

I agree, there are some great faculty at the school ... but there are also some weak links, but you will have that at any school. I had trial practice with Conger and Judge Couch as well, and someone would be hard pressed to find a better trial prep type class anywhere in the country. The quality of both Conger and Judge Couch were amazing and OCU students had a unique opportunity to learn from the best.

[OKCMallen]

I don't want to get into besmirching individual profs. It'll suffice to say that:

A. You selected a prof that isn't full-time faculty and a course that is an elective.
B. Conger is a complete stud, but he is the exception and not the norm.
C. Selecting a one-off course and instructor (that, to be fair, is more like an adjunct in his teaching capacity), hardly, HARDLY makes a compelling argument that "most" of OKCU Law's faculty is "excellent."
D. The administration isn't all the great either, save Conger. Who REALLY, technically, is probably considered administration of the university at-large. Not the law school.

And I don't want to bash on OKCU Law. Good attorneys hail from OCU and it's good for what it is. Let's just not let our imaginations run wild about what it is, that's all. And let's not spread misinformation to our OKCTalk brethren, either. OCU Law has massive, massive room for improvement, and a forward-thinking new facility could have been pretty awesome.

Edit: Also, I'm not trying to tell anyone how their experience was at OKCU, or whether or not you can be successful coming from OKCU.

[DirtLaw]

I don't want to get into besmirching individual profs. It'll suffice to say that:

A. You selected a prof that isn't full-time faculty and a course that is an elective.
B. Conger is a complete stud, but he is the exception and not the norm.
C. Selecting a one-off course and instructor (that, to be fair, is more like an adjunct in his teaching capacity), hardly, HARDLY makes a compelling argument that "most" of OKCU Law's faculty is "excellent."
D. The administration isn't all the great either, save Conger. Who REALLY, technically, is probably considered administration of the university at-large. Not the law school.

And I don't want to bash on OKCU Law. Good attorneys hail from OCU and it's good for what it is. Let's just not let our imaginations run wild about what it is, that's all. And let's not spread misinformation to our OKCTalk brethren, either. OCU Law has massive, massive room for improvement, and a forward-thinking new facility could have been pretty awesome.

Edit: Also, I'm not trying to tell anyone how their experience was at OKCU, or whether or not you can be successful coming from OKCU.

Your post is funny ... I do not think that either of us that mentioned Conger's class said, or implied that he was the norm. Not sure why you feel the need to make it clear about the fact that you think the faculty is lacking. What does it really matter what law school you graduated from? After your first job, which not everyone is worried about, it all rests on what kind of work you produce for your clients ... not where you went to school or who taught your Civ Pro II class.

[OKCMallen]

Your post is funny ... I do not think that either of us that mentioned Conger's class said, or implied that he was the norm. Not sure why you feel the need to make it clear about the fact that you think the faculty is lacking. What does it really matter what law school you graduated from? After your first job, which not everyone is worried about, it all rests on what kind of work you produce for your clients ... not where you went to school or who taught your Civ Pro II class.

Actually, I backed off slamming the faculty in my post, didn't I? Mid asked where I get my "meh" attitude, and I said there was no need for me to dig on the faculty.

And yes, until you're partner-level, it matters greatly where you went to law school. Rule of thumb: people that say "it doesn't matter where you went to law school" aren't proud of their law school. (For example, you won't hear many people that went to UT Law or Duke say that it isn't important where they went...) Mid is very proud of his education, and his education shines through when he speaks so eloquently on researched legal topics. You, however, don't seem so proud.


At any rate, let's get back on topic. This is pointless.

No need to get defensive.

[DirtLaw]

Actually, I backed off slamming the faculty in my post, didn't I? Mid asked where I get my "meh" attitude, and I said there was no need for me to dig on the faculty.

And yes, until you're partner-level, it matters greatly where you went to law school. Rule of thumb: people that say "it doesn't matter where you went to law school" aren't proud of their law school. (For example, you won't hear many people that went to UT Law or Duke say that it isn't important where they went...) Mid is very proud of his education, and his education shines through when he speaks so eloquently on researched legal topics. You, however, don't seem so proud.


At any rate, let's get back on topic. This is pointless.

No need to get defensive.

It is not that I am proud or not proud ... it is irrelevant. Law school was a means to an end, that is all. Where I went to law school had ZERO relevance to where I ended up working, so to say that until you are partner level it matters is not completely accurate for everyone. Some people get jobs for other reasons than where they went to law school. Some people just did not want to go to OU, or (fill in the blank). Not everyone in this state desires to go to OU if they are going to law school.

If you are 5-10 years out of law school and relying on where you went to law school to help you out rather than your work product that is probably not a good thing. If you have been practicing and have some real experience and have clients and other lawyers that like you and would recommend you and you are interviewing against someone that has rested on the fact that they went to OU, who do you think will get the job?? Or even if all things are equal after 5-10 years, it will come down to which person interviewing the person hiring likes better, not where they went to school.

[Midtowner]

This is pointless.

Amen. This has almost devolved to my daddy can beat up your daddy.. or faculty as it were.

As to the subject at hand, am I disappointed about what I'm assuming is Henry's decision to keep the school on campus? Hell yes. Am I surprised? No. As I believe I've said before, the school relies on the law and business schools to fund the scholarships of the undergrads. Enrollment at the business school has plummeted due to the lack of foreign students. That means the school is going to be relying on the law school more as its cash cow than it did before, consequently, they aren't going to be spending any serious money there for awhile.

It's a business move. It's not like the move downtown would bump OCU up a tier or something.

[OKCMallen]

I hate to admit it because I thought the idea was so cool, but really the oomph-per-dollar just wasn't there, like Mid said.

(Don't forget all those performing arts programs that need a little extra funding than your typical lecture course, too!)

[OKCMallen]

It is not that I am proud or not proud ... it is irrelevant. Law school was a means to an end, that is all. Where I went to law school had ZERO relevance to where I ended up working, so to say that until you are partner level it matters is not completely accurate for everyone. Some people get jobs for other reasons than where they went to law school. Some people just did not want to go to OU, or (fill in the blank). Not everyone in this state desires to go to OU if they are going to law school.

If you are 5-10 years out of law school and relying on where you went to law school to help you out rather than your work product that is probably not a good thing. If you have been practicing and have some real experience and have clients and other lawyers that like you and would recommend you and you are interviewing against someone that has rested on the fact that they went to OU, who do you think will get the job?? Or even if all things are equal after 5-10 years, it will come down to which person interviewing the person hiring likes better, not where they went to school.

OK, you win. The academic portion of your resume is completely irrelevant. Can we move on now?

[PennyQuilts]

Special Announcement from Dean Hellman
July 21st, 2010 by Nathan Gunter

To the OCU LAW Community:

The university’s announcement last week that OCU has ended consideration of moving the law school to the Fred Jones Building in downtown Oklahoma City came as a disappointment to many within the law school community. I want to provide some perspective on this development.

While there was considerable excitement about the prospect of moving the law school to a refurbished Fred Jones Building, it was clear from the beginning that this was strictly a concept to be explored, not a definite plan. The feasibility, practicality, and affordability of this project had to be considered carefully before a decision could be made to move forward. As I said last November in my announcement of the possible move, “At this point, we have a Letter of Intent to negotiate; we do not have an agreement.”

My announcement last November also listed a number of conditions that would have to be met before the university could go forward with the move, including that financing the project would not impose undue burdens on law students or the law school’s operating budget.

Our university’s leadership has now concluded that the scale of the financial commitment that the university would have to make in order to undertake this project is more than prudently can be undertaken in the current and foreseeable economic circumstances facing American higher education.

I was among the many people in the law school and general communities who were enthusiastic about the potential for this relocation possibility. However, I share in President Henry’s first and foremost concern for the fiscal health of our institution.

We should all be encouraged by President Henry’s statement last week that budget dollars and fundraising efforts should focus on creating more scholarships for our students and the resources necessary to continue to attract and retain an outstanding faculty. It is, after all, great students and faculty who combine with dedicated administrators and staff to make a truly great law school. Focusing on our human resources will make the law school stronger and enhance the value of the OCU LAW degree for our alumni.

Our law school continues to find energy and momentum in the growing slate of clinical, externship, certificate, and international programs that we are pursuing. As ever, the daily life of the law school is invigorated by the role it plays as an integral part of the legal community.

Our close relationships with the bench and bar, combined with our campus location so near to downtown and the state capitol, create many advantages that we will continue to develop for the benefit of OCU LAW students.

~Larry Hellman

http://law.okcu.edu/index.php/hotnew...-dean-hellman/

[OKCMallen]

Grimes, whose company has seven offices nationwide and is based in Tulsa, said the state's two largest cities are outperforming all other areas. The company's three Oklahoma City projects currently employ about 900 people.
Even as the cranes reflect Oklahoma's status as a relative oasis in the desert, Grimes is quick to admit the company isn't spared the pain of the national economy.
"We're blessed to have what we have," Grimes said. "But even with this work, our revenue is down and we've seen a 30 percent drop."
The tough economy's pinch included the cancellation of plans by Oklahoma City University to renovate the Fred Jones factory downtown and turn it into a law school — a job that was on Flintco's list of future work.
Grimes also has noticed an influx of subcontractors from Arkansas and Texas bidding on Oklahoma jobs.
Oklahoma's construction industry, Grimes said, is getting noticed "too much."
"They're hungry out there," Grimes said. "When bidding, we get responses from 10 masonry companies when there were three."
Of the top 100 contractors in the country, eight are working in Oklahoma, Grimes said.
"We still need more work," he said. "And we're bidding on quite a bit."
The cranes, Grimes said, show Oklahoma has a pulse. "Don't be surprised if we see more (cranes) in the future."


Read more: http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-...#ixzz0uQECDdCU

[jbrown84]

Agreed jbrown...and uh earlywine, have you driven around OCU...ever? Did you miss the crack houses just a few blocks north of the school? Just beacuse they have a house, doesn't mean they are safer. Why do you think OCU has more security guards per student than any other school in the state?

Well now you're talking about my neighborhood and exaggerating. While I wouldn't go for a leisurely walk after dark, it's hardly what you describe.

[bombermwc]

It makes a big difference what block you're in....but there is some major crap around OCU. Just take a look around at how many houses are litterally falling down. You can go right up Blackwelder and see a ton of them. I did that every day I went to OCU. You've got Putnam Heights and Military Park around there. Those areas are not the same at all. But heck, all you have to do is cross the street from OCU to see some of the crap that is around there.

Roofs that are so warped, you can see the indentations. Siding falling off, entire brick walls falling off the side of houses, porches missing parts. I'm using these as examples I've seen myself in my every day driving. So I would describe it exactlly as what I did.

And more to the point, if you talk to the teachers at Putnam Heights Elementary, just up Blackwelder, they'll tell you that the parents that actually live IN Putnam Heights usually send their kids to the private schools across Classen. Also, the kids that attend that elementary school are pretty rough. That's right out of the horses mouth, I'm not just rambling off here bud.

[Bunty]

Well, people who are in construction work should monitor that neighborhood for for rent signs, call the number and offer to make a deal to fix up the house. But then that neighborhood you describe may already be too far gone. So maybe some house owners should just bulldoze off the houses, put in parking lots and charge $250 or more a space per semester. Is finding parking a problem at OCU? My comments are based on my impressions of how the story goes sometimes in the neighborhoods next to OSU, so it may not be easily applied to OCU.