Streetcar

[Spartan]

I'm not sure how functional it will be to have two one-way lines as far apart as Walker and Broadway.

[BoulderSooner]

it should go down 10th from walker to broadway

[Kerry]

I'm not sure how functional it will be to have two one-way lines as far apart as Walker and Broadway.

I was just thinking that. For a city that is about to turn all their one way streets into two way streets, making all the streetar lines one way seems counter-productive. The lines all need to be 2-way.

[betts]

I'm not sure how functional it will be to have two one-way lines as far apart as Walker and Broadway.

It is true that having the streetcar lines as far apart as Walker and Broadway is asking people to walk a fair ways, although one must remember that you can never be more than two blocks away from either line. I agree that if you've got lines that far apart, it's going to be far more user friendly to have north and south lines on each street. I just don't know what we would need to cut to do that, as that would use up a significant portion of our six miles by doing so. I guess the question might be whether it's more important to have the lines on Broadway and Walker, or whether a closer street like Hudson might be better than Walker, if we cannot run lines both directions.

[Kerry]

It is true that having the streetcar lines as far apart as Walker and Broadway is asking people to walk a fair ways, although one must remember that you can never be more than two blocks away from either line.

It isn't so much about how far you have to walk to get on one as much as which way it is going when you do get on it. If people have to spend more time riding in a one-way loop than it is to walk, people will just walk. If that is the case then why have street car at all.

Just take we we already know about one-way vs two-way streets and apply it to street cars. Or better yet, imagine if the I-240/I-44/1-35 loop was just one-way. It wouldn't be a very effective transit route.

[lasomeday]

The new map is not feasible! 7th Street is cut off by the new federal building and cannot have a transit route throught it.

I have lost all hope in this process.

[Kerry]

The new map is not feasible! 7th Street is cut off by the new federal building and cannot have a transit route throught it.

I have lost all hope in this process.

They definately made it harder than it needs to be. There should have been four criteria used. Follow these four items and everything else would fall in place all on its own.

1. Connect existing employment/entertainment//government centers,
2. using two-way rail lines,
3. following a path where new development (TOD) is desired,
4. and do it with 7 miles of track.

The bottom line is it needs to go from the Capitol to OKC City Hall and follow a path through OU Medical, Bricktown, and downtown on the way.

[betts]

They definately made it harder than it needs to be. There should have been four criteria used. Follow these four items and everything else would fall in place all on its own.

1. Connect existing employment/entertainment//government centers,
2. using two-way rail lines,
3. following a path where new development (TOD) is desired,
4. and do it with 7 miles of track.

The bottom line is it needs to go from the Capitol to OKC City Hall and follow a path through OU Medical, Bricktown, and downtown on the way.

But Kerry, I don't think that can be done with two way rail lines and seven miles of track, unless we emphasize the Capitol and the Health Sciences Center to the exclusion of Midtown and Bricktown. I think there's plenty of development between the Capitol and the Health Sciences Center, and I'd rather see the Capitol and the Health Sciences Center left out at this point in time, with it on the list for the first extension of the line.

And, lasomeday, I don't know what the federal requirement for 7th being blocked off are. It is possible you could have gates that raise and lower for the streetcar, were 7th street to be the desired route.

[Kerry]

But Kerry, I don't think that can be done with two way rail lines and seven miles of track, unless we emphasize the Capitol and the Health Sciences Center to the exclusion of Midtown and Bricktown.

OK here we go. Sorry, I don't know how paste from Google earth sol follow on a map.

1. Start Reno @ BassPro Shop
2. West on Reno to Hudson
3. North on Hudson to NW 4th
4. East on NW4th to Broadway
5. North on Broadway to NW10th.
6. East on NW 10th to Lincoln
7. North on Lincoln to the Capitol

Total distance 3.75 miles. Double track the whole thing for two-way traffic and we are at 7.5 miles.

This route provides front door access to the following points of interest:

1. Canal
2. Bricktown Ballpark
3. Potential new convention center site
4. Ford Center
5. Cox Convention Center
6. Myraid Gardens
7. Devon Tower
8. OKC City Hall
9. Norick Library
10. Court House
11. Oklahoma Musuem of Art
12. Oklahoma City National Memorial
13. Automobile Alley
14. Presbyterian Foundation
15. OU Medical
16. State Capitol

[Spartan]

The new map is not feasible! 7th Street is cut off by the new federal building and cannot have a transit route throught it.

I have lost all hope in this process.

I don't understand why they used 7th either. Going up to 10th adds no new miles because on Walker the line already goes up to 10th anyway. I figure they used 7th to avoid the traffic circles that exist on 10th and are planned for 9th and 8th, but they're going to have to deal with that anyway. Avoiding the entire traffic circle is dumb because there are ways to slice it.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Try this:

[Platemaker]

I'm so bummed about the street car.

My favorite part of MAPS3 and I can't believe we are even entertaining these ridiculous options... trying to stretch 6 miles of track in the most inorganic way possible.

Won't someone PLEASE listen to Blair Humphreys!!!!! (or Kerry.... or me! LOL)

Newsflash... maybe it has to start out more compact so that it can be built upon. How in the world are you supposed to build upon these 'spaghetti bowl' options.

[Kerry]

I'm so bummed about the street car.

My favorite part of MAPS3 and I can't believe we are even entertaining these ridiculous options... trying to stretch 6 miles of track in the most inorganic way possible.

Won't someone PLEASE listen to Blair Humphreys!!!!! (or Kerry.... or me! LOL)

Newsflash... maybe it has to start out more compact so that it can be built upon. How in the world are you supposed to build upon these 'spaghetti bowl' options.

Amen! Stop making this process so hard that it keeps coming up with crazy layouts. All of downtown is converting back to two-way street. We have already learned that one-way transit doesn't work. If you keep making all these one way loops no one is going to ride because even if you use it to get where you are going, you will have to take the long way back to where you were. For instance, let's say I live in Deep Duce and take the rail to the Ford Center. To get back to Deep Duce I have to make a full round trip or walk several block to get on and a few blocks after I get off. If I have to walk that much why would I spend my time waiting for a street car - I'll just walk home.

[Platemaker]

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...f6c90be9a77a85
Kerry's Option

[Kerry]

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...f6c90be9a77a85
Kerry's Option

Thank you. I have to learn how do that.

[Spartan]

I think we're forgetting that we just need to connect downtown's key nodes at this point. Not any key nodes north of 13th or south of current I-40.

[Kerry]

I think we're forgetting that we just need to connect downtown's key nodes at this point. Not any key nodes north of 13th or south of current I-40.

It also has to serve as a backbone for future expansion. All these crazy paths with 20 turns and one-way movement can't do that.

[Tier2City]

KOKH FOX 25 :: Top Stories - Downtown OKC transit future

[Spartan]

Kinda late to the punch there..

[Urban Pioneer]

Thanks for posting that Tier2City. The same day that I gave the interview, a press release came out generating this Tulsa World article. There are some new exciting announcements that will be coming out soon regarding Regional Transit.

Here is a teaser. What do you think?

"We have talked about a demonstration train that would consist of four or five Trinity Rail Express cars coming to Oklahoma City, and running from Edmond to Oklahoma City carrying passengers that would normally ride the Edmond bus system to work in downtown Oklahoma City," said Joyner.

The hope is that legislators, city and county officials and all Oklahomans would get a first-hand look at how a commuter rail system works. Then they can decide for themselves if it's worth the cost or not."- Charlie Joyner

The demonstration is still in the planning stages and will have to be coordinated by Oklahoma Department of Transportation with approval of all parties involved, including Amtrak, BNSF, and Trinity Rail Express.

Read full article- http://www.ktul.com/Global/story.asp?S=12938224

[betts]

The problem I see with this is that at this point in time, once you get off the train there's no reliable public transit to get you anywhere that's not within walking distance. So, if you work at St. Anthony's or the Health Sciences Center, you're probably not going to take the train. If you work farther west downtown, you may think it's too far to walk. We may not get a representative study of who would use the train once the streetcar is up and running, or if we had an efficient bus or trolley system currently in place. That's my concern.

[Kerry]

The problem I see with this is that at this point in time, once you get off the train there's no reliable public transit to get you anywhere that's not within walking distance. So, if you work at St. Anthony's or the Health Sciences Center, you're probably not going to take the train. If you work farther west downtown, you may think it's too far to walk. We may not get a representative study of who would use the train once the streetcar is up and running, or if we had an efficient bus or trolley system currently in place. That's my concern.

One of components of the street car is Transit Oriented Development and while there might not be that much ridership to St. Anthony's or the Health Sciences Center now, serving major employment centers will encourage new high density residential development along rail lines. This is one of the reasons that rail needs to be first on the list of things built. Until the tracks are laid, private developers are not going to build anything.

[OKC@heart]

One of components of the street car is Transit Oriented Development and while there might not be that much ridership to St. Anthony's or the Health Sciences Center now, serving major employment centers will encourage new high density residential development along rail lines. This is one of the reasons that rail needs to be first on the list of things built. Until the tracks are laid, private developers are not going to build anything.

And it is the implementation of the street car lines that will get the ball rolling. I for one would love to see the event mentioned above with the Trinity rail cars in conjuntion with a very meaningful milestone, such as the announcement of the final route of the first 6 miles of track for the streetcar and have trolleys on hand at the arrival of the train to showcase the interconnectivity of those modes, from commuter rail to street car. This would showcase the desired result and allow passengers to more effectively visualize the impact that these systems can have. (granted that is hypothesizing any interconnectivity with the Train station...)

This illustrates just how difficult it is not having the Intermodal Transit hub located as of yet and trying to design a street car system that won't be a dismal failure due to not having the needed interconnectivity required to actually make it functional for ridership to view it as an advantage.

[betts]

One of components of the street car is Transit Oriented Development and while there might not be that much ridership to St. Anthony's or the Health Sciences Center now, serving major employment centers will encourage new high density residential development along rail lines. This is one of the reasons that rail needs to be first on the list of things built. Until the tracks are laid, private developers are not going to build anything.

I agree. I'm simply talking about the trial they're talking about doing this winter in the article. I don't think it will necessarily be that instructive, in terms of what kind of ridership could be expected on a Norman-Guthrie train route, because of the existing lack of easy transit away from walking distance of the train station.

[Spartan]

Thanks for posting that Tier2City. The same day that I gave the interview, a press release came out generating this Tulsa World article. There are some new exciting announcements that will be coming out soon regarding Regional Transit.

Here is a teaser. What do you think?

"We have talked about a demonstration train that would consist of four or five Trinity Rail Express cars coming to Oklahoma City, and running from Edmond to Oklahoma City carrying passengers that would normally ride the Edmond bus system to work in downtown Oklahoma City," said Joyner.

The hope is that legislators, city and county officials and all Oklahomans would get a first-hand look at how a commuter rail system works. Then they can decide for themselves if it's worth the cost or not."- Charlie Joyner

The demonstration is still in the planning stages and will have to be coordinated by Oklahoma Department of Transportation with approval of all parties involved, including Amtrak, BNSF, and Trinity Rail Express.

Read full article- http://www.ktul.com/Global/story.asp?S=12938224

Wow, this sounds very impressive Jeff. You have been busy, I see.

Wouldn't it make more sense for it to go down to Norman instead, first? Norman has an actual Amtrak station, not to mention a walkable downtown area around it.

I agree with OKC@Heart that it should be scheduled in celebration of the final route selection..