Norman city workers need residents support

[dirtrider73068]

If anybody that lives in norman hasn't heard, the city is laying off people due to a suppose budget shortfall. They have said we over spent and don't have the money to pay some of our employee's. They have and are still spending money knowing they were going broke and new they were broke.

Take in for instance the porter street project. They started that knowing there budget was getting low, and have been paying thousands if not millions on a study to decide what to do with porter street. The mayor said in tuesday nights meeting, "We haven't started any construction to spend alot of money on the project yet, this is a study phase to see what kind of funds we could get when we do start construction. It may be 20 years till anything is being done."

What the hell!!! Your broke, cutting jobs, spent thousands or millions on a study for a project but may be 20 years before you even start it. We need to public to stand in with support.

Does anybody know about the 7 million spent on the bridge for the embassy suites hotel? The city Of Norman put up money for the project, that should be in the laps of ODOT, not the city. They are buying 180 more cop cars, they let the cops drive them home, and even to there second job if they have one, with over 60,000 gallons of fuel being used a month. Couldn't they save that by not letting them drive them home and everywhere except when on patrol.

We need our residents and public behind us, we need there support, this is your tax dollars being wasted on stupid spending at the expense of your employee's. If you like your parks mowed and trimmed, support us, if you want your streets to stay nice and maintained, support us, you want your trash and yard waste picked up support us. With out the workers the city will not function well. The norman transcript has ran 2 storys on this, one is in todays paper, the other I think was on tuesdays edition. Want to know more about what norman is wasteing your tax dollars on, let me know, or PM me for more details. Please support us we need you at the council meetings and study sessions.

[rcjunkie]

If anybody that lives in norman hasn't heard, the city is laying off people due to a suppose budget shortfall. They have said we over spent and don't have the money to pay some of our employee's. They have and are still spending money knowing they were going broke and new they were broke.

Take in for instance the porter street project. They started that knowing there budget was getting low, and have been paying thousands if not millions on a study to decide what to do with porter street. The mayor said in tuesday nights meeting, "We haven't started any construction to spend alot of money on the project yet, this is a study phase to see what kind of funds we could get when we do start construction. It may be 20 years till anything is being done."

What the hell!!! Your broke, cutting jobs, spent thousands or millions on a study for a project but may be 20 years before you even start it. We need to public to stand in with support.

Does anybody know about the 7 million spent on the bridge for the embassy suites hotel? The city Of Norman put up money for the project, that should be in the laps of ODOT, not the city. They are buying 180 more cop cars, they let the cops drive them home, and even to there second job if they have one, with over 60,000 gallons of fuel being used a month. Couldn't they save that by not letting them drive them home and everywhere except when on patrol.

We need our residents and public behind us, we need there support, this is your tax dollars being wasted on stupid spending at the expense of your employee's. If you like your parks mowed and trimmed, support us, if you want your streets to stay nice and maintained, support us, you want your trash and yard waste picked up support us. With out the workers the city will not function well. The norman transcript has ran 2 storys on this, one is in todays paper, the other I think was on tuesdays edition. Want to know more about what norman is wasteing your tax dollars on, let me know, or PM me for more details. Please support us we need you at the council meetings and study sessions.

This post is so full of half truths and untruths, I don't know where to start.

The study conducted for Porter Street was 75,000, no where near a million.

They are not buying 180 new police cars, they have 16 on order, any further purchases are on hold.

60,000 gallons of fuel in one month is a flat out lie, they don't use that much in a year.

The bridge was paid for with funds the City had committed to build a convention center next to the new Hampton Inn at N. Park. John Q. Harmon's decided to pay for the convention center himself, so the 8 million became available and the council decided to build the much needed bridge over I-35 at Rock Creek. (will help relieve major congestion on Robinson)

It would help gain support if done with facts, when trying to solicit help by using lies, it will always back fire.

[dirtrider73068]

All that is just what I was told, and passing it along. Do you even know what it will cost to do porter street? I bet not, have you been to any of the meetings? Like the one tuesday night that have a cost to do porter street? If they are broke then why even do a study? And the study is far from being done, and even more money that even the council said they don't have will be spent on the study even further.

Why would the city even think about or rather should have anything to do with a ODOT project, they shouldn't. ODOT needs to do those bridges not the city.

Where is the articles or write ups on any of this? The bridge, cops cars, porter street study? I would like to see it, to know for sure what we are facing if in fact that what I have been told and what we are being told is a lie. If thats the case then the council is the one lieing about being broke. From the sounds of your post your not for the workers.

[rcjunkie]

All that is just what I was told, and passing it along. Do you even know what it will cost to do porter street? I bet not, have you been to any of the meetings? Like the one tuesday night that have a cost to do porter street? If they are broke then why even do a study? And the study is far from being done, and even more money that even the council said they don't have will be spent on the study even further.

Why would the city even think about or rather should have anything to do with a ODOT project, they shouldn't. ODOT needs to do those bridges not the city.

Where is the articles or write ups on any of this? The bridge, cops cars, porter street study? I would like to see it, to know for sure what we are facing if in fact that what I have been told and what we are being told is a lie. If thats the case then the council is the one lieing about being broke. From the sounds of your post your not for the workers.

Why would ODOT pay for the bridge, it has nothing to do with I-35 other then cross over it, theres no exit or entrance ramp to I-35, it just for local traffic.

The Porter study was OK'd and completed well before the current financial situation. If they choose the latest option of making Porter 5 lanes, then the State and Federal will pay for most of the improvements. And Yes, I've been to every single public meeting held to discuss the Porter project, as well as the meetings held prior to the construction on I-35

[blangtang]

as far as the budget goes, it would have been nice to have been better aware during the recent mayor/council election. since the election, it seems to have become this huge thing that no one could see coming. the timing, ya know...yeah

[dirtrider73068]

Yup why the mayor didn't say anything about the budget then, she wanted reelected. But one thing about all this is one of our guys, didn't know anything untill the day they told him his position was cut only then did he learn the city was broke and was doing layoffs.

He has to chose another spot to take be it, in the same department or another, but in the end after all the bumping processes somebody will be forced to leave the lowest man on the pole is where it will hit.

What we don't understand is why isn't the upper people getting cut? Why is there still people in the city hall? Our supervisors and department heads make the decisions to spend the money they tell us what and how much to buy, and they still have there job.

[kevinpate]

I find I don't agree with most of the OP's points. And as to any suggestion no one knew there was trouble brewing on the financial front, with respect one would have to either live under a rock or be an unregistered voter.

The folks who were hoping to take office on the council, including the mayoral seat, flooded the community with their position, nearly daily the last few weeks.

Norman deciding to take on the bridge is old news, and if memory serves, that was to Norman's advantage. the develop takes on the center, Norman takes on the bridge, and congestion lessens for an area that is set to grow and grow some more.

Was that a perfect decision? Perhaps not, but it wasn't a flat out stupid decision, and it does predate the current downfalls felt in Norman and well, everywhere.

If Porter street goes forward, it'll be a while. Think back on the time frame from back where the community was debating whether Robinson should have an overpass or underpass or neither. Underpass as the decision took a long while, and longer still to implement. Scratching Porter completely off anyone's radar doesn't resolve the new FY budget.

Rather than pass along what you are told, take it in, look at it, decide if you have heard correctly, and then act on verified information. It's a far better position to support any platform for change you wish to advance.

[king183]

as far as the budget goes, it would have been nice to have been better aware during the recent mayor/council election. since the election, it seems to have become this huge thing that no one could see coming. the timing, ya know...yeah

I agree and disagree. Disagree Part: Anyone who was paying attention knew there was a budget crisis. One of the candidates (Ezzell) spent most of his time talking about it and spending. You didn't have to agree with Ezzell or support him to know that the budget was getting ready to go BUST, but he was talking about it non-stop (as were others), so there was no reason not to know it was coming down the road. Agree Part: Rosenthal spent a lot of her time responding to Ezzell's criticism about the budget by saying there was no budget crisis and things would be fine. So if people listened to her and trusted what she was saying for political purposes, I can understand why some people are somewhat surprised by this. Lesson: don't automatically trust politicians. Still, if you paid attention to what the budget director was saying, we knew this was coming a long time ago.

[dirtrider73068]

Well If I knew where to get the info on these facts to find out if they are true or not I would love to see them but nobody has stepped up to that plate yet.

Kovach was on our side and brought up a good point, saying "if we haven't adopted a budget why are we looking at laying off our workers, we need to get a budget adopted then look at what monies is left to see what jobs can be saved and laid off.

For there council good part they didn't tell us there was a budget crisis, why didn't they tell us to save our spending, but still even there are departments going into a panic spend state, so there for it falls into upper management that told us go spend, but we the workers are the ones getting punished for it, and being laid off. Shouldn't they be held accountable for that?

[blangtang]

Does anybody know about the 7 million spent on the bridge for the embassy suites hotel? The city Of Norman put up money for the project, that should be in the laps of ODOT, not the city. They are buying 180 more cop cars, they let the cops drive them home, and even to there second job if they have one, with over 60,000 gallons of fuel being used a month. Couldn't they save that by not letting them drive them home and everywhere except when on patrol.

Isn't that more cars than there are cops?

[rcjunkie]

Isn't that more cars than there are cops?

It is, that's why it's hard to give them much credit, or support, when they try to influence people with lies.

[Of Sound Mind]

Well If I knew where to get the info on these facts to find out if they are true or not I would love to see them but nobody has stepped up to that plate yet.

It's YOUR job to educate yourself, not everyone else's job to do it for you. Before you spout off a list of "facts," it's probably a good idea to make sure those "facts" are accurate. And after you spout off about these "facts" and are challenged, don't hold other posters to a higher standard than you hold yourself, i.e. ask them to post links when you posted none yourself.

[Mr T]

Links? What links? It is almost impossible to find out anything in this town. If it is not reported by the paper or put up on the Norman website, what is one to do? He was asking for information, not links.

Ezell said and said that this course could not continue, that we could not keep spending money on dream projects while deferring important work. He said over and over that we were headed for the falls.

Before the election the mayor said we were looking at 1.5 million short. The budget director said no layoffs were planned. We were in "very good condition." February - 1.5 million. March (prior to election) - 1.5 million. 4/21 - "Grim financial news." "Well into the millions."

Even the Transcript is blaming the employees for not seeing this coming. Of course, this is the same "newspaper" recently seen castigating mortgage-holders for continuing to default, despite the bending- over- backwards of the oh-so-nice banks in an attempt to help them. Bad mortgage holders! Bad City employees! How dare they! If you believe the mayor you are bad/uninformed/not paying attention? What does that say about the mayor?

Ezell spoke of the fact that both the developer and the OU foundation were backing out of the TIF thingie. The bids received were due to expire, I believe on March 10. The mayor said "No-one has been released from any obligations." Well? What happened? Did the bids expire? The election was held right before the expiration date and nary a peep since out of anyone. We are 35 million short on the TIF and no-one is talking. The 2/16 oversight meeting was cancelled. The 3/16 meeting was cancelled. The 4/20 meeting posted an agenda and that was all. There appparently was a meeting on 5/11, as referenced by the Holyfield letter. The minutes were accepted on 5/25. Does anyone know what they said?

What happened to the $11 million in bonds for library improvements? Why were they never issued? Why does the library reek of urine and roach spray? Why is the carpet so sticky with spilled sodas?? Why are there Kit Kat wrappers and pieces of paper and hair all over the place? I'll tell you why the bonds weren't issued and the place is overrun with roaches - the mayor wants a new library (overlooking the giant new lake in Andrews Park.) This library will be run into the ground. Can't they issue a bond for $100.00 and buy a vacuum cleaner? Why should we spend 50 million dollars for a new library if they can't take care of the old one?

Why should city employees be treated like bad dogs (which is what you and the editor sound like) because they believed what the mayor said? I have tried and tried and tried to find the answers to many city questions/problems/meetings. I am disabled, I am an excellent searcher, I have all the time in the world and I cannot find these things. How much time do you think a guy who works very hard all day has to find these things?

In the Loft thread someone said you shouldn't base decisions on rumor and innuendo. It has been "rumored" for years that Norman was working on the quiet zone, just as it was "rumored" for years that Norman was working on the return of the commuter train. Are people supposed to be psychic? Where does one go for the information if the people in charge are not telling the truth? How are you supposed to know they aren't telling the truth? Why are people bad for believing what the officials say?

The city spent $180,000.00 on the Porter "concept" and the drawings. That's all they got for the money - a bunch of drawings of any-street, USA, with happy stylish people chatting and drinking coffees under the trees. Couldn't someone in Norman do that? Why did we pay folk in Kansas? Surely there must be someone here. We HAVE a university.

Why did we spend $68,000.00 on a glass statue of waving prairie grasses made in New Mexico? Don't we have local artists?

The new Parks master plan was done by a company in Austin. It is going to cost $73,500,000.00. Where are we going to get that money? The mayor says bond issue.

Much of Andrews Park will be renovated, despite the fact that the whole area will be changed for the Stormwater Master Plan, removing Park Street and the water tower and 48 of 64 houses.

The Stormwater Master Plan (also an Austin company) is estimated at $420,000,000.00. It was estimated (by the planners) that the utility bill will go up one dollar for each million, if we don't have a bond issue for some of this. I guess it doesn't matter which pocket we look in - we will pay both ways.

The Greenway Master Plan (estimated cost of $40,000,000.00) will go along with the Stormwater Plan. The city is going to take out hundreds of houses and replace them with greenbelts along Imhoff Creek alone, and it doesn't even drain into the lake. At one point I was to be the last house standing on my street. They have now kept the 2 houses to the west of me. They were able to "shift" the money from improvements at the Boyd/Pickard intersection because they won't need them. They will be removing 6 houses per the stormwater plan and putting in a large bridge. The houses around the bridge over West Brooks will be gone, replaced with a large bridge. Greenbelts all over the place.

The master plan has not specified which houses, but the little black X's tell the tale. (They said there was no point in upsetting people before it was necessary. Be very careful about buying a house anywhere near any creek in Norman.)

$110,000,000.00 school bond, for 5 years. We had better NOT have any emergencies, or we are (insert word of choice.) I voted "no" in a dark building, on a piece of paper, with a golf pencil, with sirens screeching everywhere, during an ice storm. They should have rescheduled the election.

So. One hundred and ten million for schools. Four hundred and twenty million for stormwater. Seventy-three million for parks. Forty million for greenbelts. Fifty million for a library. God only knows for Porter. Twenty-one million for roads and sirens. Thirty-five million short on the TIF. Now they say four hundred and twenty million for water for the future. They predict a doubling of the population by 2040. ??? At 1500 people a year added, that will take WAY longer than 2040. I don't think we even have that much room. How on earth are we going to pay for this? Why is everyone being mean to the guys who pick up the yard waste? The OP hasn't been back and I don't blame him.

This is a city where they are going to charge us for impervious surfaces while requiring asphalt for driveways. Why are you yelling at the little guy and treating him like a fool? If ANYONE knows the answers, say so.

What happened at the TIF oversight committee meeting on May 11?

This is why the Transcript got rid of the discussion forum. When we need to know, we will be told.

[barnold]

RCjunkie,
Why do you have a dog in this fight anyway? You live in Tuttle, retired from OKC and spend half of your time at the lake. I like browsing others forums too, but generally keep my nose out of other peoples business.

[dirtrider73068]

Thank you Mr T, very well said. This city is wasteing money IMHO and the workers and the people you now the citizens is who its costing. Since this has all started this is what I have found out by going to council meetings and being involved in my town.

The city has gave your so wonderful city manager 1.4 million, did you catch that, 1.4 million in his own priviate bank account, they paid for his house for 2 years and who knows could still be doing that, pay him 700 a month to drive his hummer, 100 cell phone allowance. And to top it off get a salary of 250 grand a year, he is the highest paid in the state and am pretty sure in the nation or at least the cities equal to us.

The city keeps telling you there is no growth then why the hell is there new housing additions being built all over? Why is there tax revenues been up for the past 3 times?

That TIF thing is the biggest damn joke the city of norman has done, is wasteing money when it could have been gaining the tax revenue from it.

Be more involved and you will see what they are doing and what they have done and why we are fighting them all the way on this. This wasn't a issue till that mayor everybody thought was grand and your wonderful city manager came in then all of a sudden were broke as a joker. And its not the economy cause people are still spending money in norman just go look, there are stores that are still busy everyday.

[rcjunkie]

RCjunkie,
Why do you have a dog in this fight anyway? You live in Tuttle, retired from OKC and spend half of your time at the lake. I like browsing others forums too, but generally keep my nose out of other peoples business.

Maybe because I own several pieces of real estate in Norman, both commercial and residential, and by doing so, I pay a few thousand dollars a year to Cleveland County.
I also hire several local firms to do repair, management and maintenance work to said properties, thereby I contribute to the local economy in Norman and feel I have earned the right to voice my opinion re: local City issues.

[rcjunkie]

Thank you Mr T, very well said. This city is wasteing money IMHO and the workers and the people you now the citizens is who its costing. Since this has all started this is what I have found out by going to council meetings and being involved in my town.

The city has gave your so wonderful city manager 1.4 million, did you catch that, 1.4 million in his own priviate bank account, they paid for his house for 2 years and who knows could still be doing that, pay him 700 a month to drive his hummer, 100 cell phone allowance. And to top it off get a salary of 250 grand a year, he is the highest paid in the state and am pretty sure in the nation or at least the cities equal to us.

The city keeps telling you there is no growth then why the hell is there new housing additions being built all over? Why is there tax revenues been up for the past 3 times?

That TIF thing is the biggest damn joke the city of norman has done, is wasteing money when it could have been gaining the tax revenue from it.

Be more involved and you will see what they are doing and what they have done and why we are fighting them all the way on this. This wasn't a issue till that mayor everybody thought was grand and your wonderful city manager came in then all of a sudden were broke as a joker. And its not the economy cause people are still spending money in norman just go look, there are stores that are still busy everyday.

The only part of this statement thats is true is the fact that Mr. Lewis is a wonderful City manager, the rest are bald face lies and you should be ashamed.

[dirtrider73068]

Wonderful my ass, whats so wonderful about his stupid TIF on UNP. Thats 40 million dollars in tax revenues the city loses and you think thats great your full of horse crap. If you contribute to the local economy in norman then you would have a better stand at losing your said tax dollars to stupid spending and loss of jobs, but oh wait maybe your one of those suckers on that TIF so you would lose if the TIF went away thats why your gun hoe about him being wonderful. His main goal is to bust city apart get them contracted out and then he takes his money and his gone. But I guess you don't care to have a great clean thriving town, you would rather have a trashy run down city like others that have been contracted out or at least been partly contracted out, you must want to look like noble, cars parked in the yards, junk everywhere, but being in tuttle in a little hickville town then none of what norman has or offers means anything to you.

[rcjunkie]

Wonderful my ass, whats so wonderful about his stupid TIF on UNP. Thats 40 million dollars in tax revenues the city loses and you think thats great your full of horse crap. If you contribute to the local economy in norman then you would have a better stand at losing your said tax dollars to stupid spending and loss of jobs, but oh wait maybe your one of those suckers on that TIF so you would lose if the TIF went away thats why your gun hoe about him being wonderful. His main goal is to bust city apart get them contracted out and then he takes his money and his gone. But I guess you don't care to have a great clean thriving town, you would rather have a trashy run down city like others that have been contracted out or at least been partly contracted out, you must want to look like noble, cars parked in the yards, junk everywhere, but being in tuttle in a little hickville town then none of what norman has or offers means anything to you.

For starters it's not his TIF (it's the cities), I do contribute the the local Norman economy (I own several real estate properties, both commercial and residential), I'm not on the TIF Board, it's "Gung-Ho" not gun hoe, name one thing the City Manager has contracted out, and if you think Tuttle is a "little Hickville Town", you need to pay a visit (call me in advance, if I'm in town, lunch is on me).

It would be to your advantage, or anyone that's trying to make or prove a point, to have the facts and stop telling lies, it does nothing to promote your agenda.

[rcjunkie]

RCjunkie,
Why do you have a dog in this fight anyway? You live in Tuttle, retired from OKC and spend half of your time at the lake. I like browsing others forums too, but generally keep my nose out of other peoples business.

FYI: I own property and pay taxes in the following counties: Oklahoma, Grady, Cleveland, Cherokee, McClain and Major, so I may have a dog in the fight in any of said counties.